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Post by redbus on Feb 6, 2020 23:46:32 GMT
What is terminus place and since when did the 2 go there? Terminus Place is the road that runs between Buckingham Palace Road & Wilton Road. The 2 would stop opposite Victoria Station. I am not quite sure how this improve matters for bus passengers, particularly those changing buses. What about those coming out the station? Their nice short walk to the bus would be no longer. Perhaps the idea of the raised piazza solves these issues, but then as bus passengers at the bottom of the priority list, no doubt no one will think they matter much. Oh and by the way bus passengers are well, pedestrians, before they board the bus. |
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Post by Trafalgax on Feb 7, 2020 0:18:01 GMT
if route like (2,36,148 e.g) aren't returning to Terminus Place, then they should make Victoria Street a two way road from Buckingham Palace Road with Two new Victoria Station bus stops.
One for 11,148 and 211 towards Westminster and then these route will continue straight down on Victoria Street to bus stop Westminster Cathedral (N).
The second one for 2 and 36 towards Vauxhall and these route will turn right on Vaxuhall Bridge Road to bus stop Neathouse Place (L).
This also mean route 2,36 and 148 will operate on Buckingham Palace Road again and serve bus stop (P).
I'd say this is better for routes 11,24 and 211 since they won't have to go around that long loop anymore.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 7, 2020 1:56:33 GMT
Terminus Place is the road that runs between Buckingham Palace Road & Wilton Road. The 2 would stop opposite Victoria Station. I am not quite sure how this improve matters for bus passengers, particularly those changing buses. What about those coming out the station? Their nice short walk to the bus would be no longer. Perhaps the idea of the raised piazza solves these issues, but then as bus passengers at the bottom of the priority list, no doubt no one will think they matter much. Oh and by the way bus passengers are well, pedestrians, before they board the bus. I think you may have quoted the wrong person - I've already disagreed with this idea on the previous page due to the interchange issue especially as I've done the interchange many times during the works when Terminus Place has been shut and it's not particularly great  I think councils and certain bodies have an unhealthy obsession with 'plazas' & 'shared road schemes' in all honesty. |
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Post by abc on Feb 7, 2020 7:55:15 GMT
Terminus Place is the road that runs between Buckingham Palace Road & Wilton Road. The 2 would stop opposite Victoria Station. I am not quite sure how this improve matters for bus passengers, particularly those changing buses. What about those coming out the station? Their nice short walk to the bus would be no longer. Perhaps the idea of the raised piazza solves these issues, but then as bus passengers at the bottom of the priority list, no doubt no one will think they matter much. Oh and by the way bus passengers are well, pedestrians, before they board the bus. Also true for taxi passengers. The situation has improved vastly since reopening of their lane. |
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Post by snowman on Feb 7, 2020 8:29:57 GMT
I think it will be another excuse to cut back a few routes,
if can't serve the station, why bother to take a route near it.
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Post by Lukeo on Feb 7, 2020 9:31:06 GMT
I think it’s a great idea for the purpose of creating more pedestrian space, and yes I have actually used the station to change to buses many times, and know the area very well. I was once stuck on a 507 for 15 mins just trying to leave the bus station (at 9am)! Obviously the buses need to go somewhere closeby - if it does mean a cut in any of them then I’ll no longer show support.
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Post by busman on Feb 7, 2020 10:29:48 GMT
Whilst I’m all for public realm improvements, I note that the proposals have come from developers who appear solely interested in retail, office space and access to rail by foot. They don’t appear to have any consideration for bus users and its the role of TfL to ensure that all forms of travel are integrated into the plan. The trouble is TfL have done an awful job to date of integrating bus, rail and cycle.
The public realm around Victoria has been awful for many years. Not because of buses, but because of the hoarding, blocked pavement space, sludge and dust from building works around the station. I used to use Victoria Station a lot for bus interchange. Taking a 507 to Victoria and changing for a bus to Vauxhall and beyond was merely a matter of a few footsteps within the bus station. Once it closed down and stops became scattered across the maze of roads surrounding the station, I avoided changing there. It was too much hassle trying to work out where I had been dropped off and where the bus stop was located for my onward journey. Thinking back, the diversion of services from Victoria Bus Station is probably my earliest memory of when I actively avoided travelling somewhere easily accessible by bus and opted for the tube instead.
I think there should be provision for a central bus station in Victoria within site of the station. To keep the current arrangements does nothing to encourage people out of their personal cars and hired vehicles. TfL could do something smart here, but I don’t think they will.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 7, 2020 11:34:35 GMT
Yes I've just read the full story and it probably explains why buses haven't returned to Terminus Place if they're likely to be removed again at a later date. I tend to forget that only three routes actually pick up from the bus station nowadays so it does all seem quite feasible, it certainly makes for a much nicer environment. Hopefully the 38,390 and 507 as well as the 23,16 and 52 can set down in Buckingham Palace Road and pick up in Wilton Road as the 13,16 and 52 do now for easy connections without crossing roads. 23? Did you mean another route? Oops I meant the 13. |
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Post by greenboy on Feb 7, 2020 11:50:53 GMT
I think it’s a great idea for the purpose of creating more pedestrian space, and yes I have actually used the station to change to buses many times, and know the area very well. I was once stuck on a 507 for 15 mins just trying to leave the bus station (at 9am)! Obviously the buses need to go somewhere closeby - if it does mean a cut in any of them then I’ll no longer show support. I've encountered similar problems and I think it's fair to say that the current arrangements aren't ideal, also a few pedestrian accidents. I wouldn't be surprised if the 13 was cut back to Marble Arch regardless of whether this idea goes ahead. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 7, 2020 14:11:55 GMT
I think it’s a great idea for the purpose of creating more pedestrian space, and yes I have actually used the station to change to buses many times, and know the area very well. I was once stuck on a 507 for 15 mins just trying to leave the bus station (at 9am)! Obviously the buses need to go somewhere closeby - if it does mean a cut in any of them then I’ll no longer show support. The problem is your creating more pedestrian space at the expense of buses because I can't see where the 38, 390 & 507 can go given all three need plenty of space as they're all high frequency routes. It's yet another idea dreamed up by people who have never used buses let alone actually interchanged at Victoria - the current interchange between buses & the station is poor with everything scattered all the over place - a centralised bus station is what it needs. If this nonsense goes ahead, I can only see some of the terminating routes being cut to make it work. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 7, 2020 18:29:48 GMT
Based on the article it would appear that the existing stopping arrangements that have been in place since Victoria Station Upgrade would continue. Space would have to be sought for the 38 / 390 & 507. Yes I've just read the full story and it probably explains why buses haven't returned to Terminus Place if they're likely to be removed again at a later date. I tend to forget that only three routes actually pick up from the bus station nowadays so it does all seem quite feasible, it certainly makes for a much nicer environment. Hopefully the 38,390 and 507 as well as the 23,16 and 52 can set down in Buckingham Palace Road and pick up in Wilton Road as the 13,16 and 52 do now for easy connections without crossing roads. The only issue is the 38, 390 & 507 are all very high frequency and it wouldn't be as easy setting them down elsewhere. I don't understand these ideas personally such as Parliament Square thing which would just irk people that it has to happen. You know, they seem nice but when you think about all the bs that TfL have to go through standing all the buses elsewhere and that stuff. I think that if they built the piazza on top of the bus station which they already do in North Finchley Bus Station and no doubt possibly elsewhere I just can't see why you'd want to build a piazza in an area that is home to 3 high frequency routes. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 7, 2020 18:49:39 GMT
Kings Cross is slightly different in that only 3 routes terminate there now whereas Victoria has always had more routes terminating there.
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Post by ronnie on Feb 7, 2020 18:58:42 GMT
Such ideas always look good on paper but the reality is often awful. Seems to be all done with the cyclist in mind and the bus is being seen as “evil”
Rather pointless if it doesn’t make for smooth interchange. I have used Victoria quite a few times recently for end to ends and it’s always a battle figuring out where different buses stand. This doesn’t seem to improve anything - probably makes it even worse
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 7, 2020 19:12:26 GMT
Such ideas always look good on paper but the reality is often awful. Seems to be all done with the cyclist in mind and the bus is being seen as “evil” <snip> It's a pedestrian plaza - what does it have to do with cycling? The space in front of Victoria Station has long been crowded and unpleasant (although the rebuilding of the Underground station didn't help matters). This will enhance the area in general and will make using the station a far better experience. Where to put the buses is not an insurmountable problem. |
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Post by redbus on Feb 7, 2020 20:13:14 GMT
I think it’s a great idea for the purpose of creating more pedestrian space, and yes I have actually used the station to change to buses many times, and know the area very well. I was once stuck on a 507 for 15 mins just trying to leave the bus station (at 9am)! Obviously the buses need to go somewhere closeby - if it does mean a cut in any of them then I’ll no longer show support. I've encountered similar problems and I think it's fair to say that the current arrangements aren't ideal, also a few pedestrian accidents. I wouldn't be surprised if the 13 was cut back to Marble Arch regardless of whether this idea goes ahead. Unlikely, I reckon there's a far greater chance the 2 will be cut back from Marylebone than the 13 from Victoria. |
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