|
|
Post by John tuthill on Feb 7, 2020 20:20:50 GMT
Such ideas always look good on paper but the reality is often awful. Seems to be all done with the cyclist in mind and the bus is being seen as “evil” <snip> It's a pedestrian plaza - what does it have to do with cycling? The space in front of Victoria Station has long been crowded and unpleasant (although the rebuilding of the Underground station didn't help matters). This will enhance the area in general and will make using the station a far better experience. Where to put the buses is not an insurmountable problem. Where? |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 7, 2020 20:38:45 GMT
Such ideas always look good on paper but the reality is often awful. Seems to be all done with the cyclist in mind and the bus is being seen as “evil” <snip> It's a pedestrian plaza - what does it have to do with cycling? The space in front of Victoria Station has long been crowded and unpleasant (although the rebuilding of the Underground station didn't help matters). This will enhance the area in general and will make using the station a far better experience. Where to put the buses is not an insurmountable problem. The only way you could find space is either by drastically slashing the terminating routes frequencies or by cutting routes back which neither should happen just for a plaza so whilst it’s not insurmountable, it’s equally not practical unless you want to furthen the demise of our good bus network. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Feb 7, 2020 21:27:59 GMT
Such ideas always look good on paper but the reality is often awful. Seems to be all done with the cyclist in mind and the bus is being seen as “evil” <snip> It's a pedestrian plaza - what does it have to do with cycling? The space in front of Victoria Station has long been crowded and unpleasant (although the rebuilding of the Underground station didn't help matters). This will enhance the area in general and will make using the station a far better experience. Where to put the buses is not an insurmountable problem. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem just as it wasn't when the stand at Waterloo closed to be converted into what is now RA and of course the 16 and 52 were removed from Victoria bus station years ago without any great problems. I think at least one route terminating at Victoria should be extended to the coach station, probably the 16. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 7, 2020 22:24:52 GMT
It's a pedestrian plaza - what does it have to do with cycling? The space in front of Victoria Station has long been crowded and unpleasant (although the rebuilding of the Underground station didn't help matters). This will enhance the area in general and will make using the station a far better experience. Where to put the buses is not an insurmountable problem. It's certainly not an insurmountable problem just as it wasn't when the stand at Waterloo closed to be converted into what is now RA and of course the 16 and 52 were removed from Victoria bus station years ago without any great problems. I think at least one route terminating at Victoria should be extended to the coach station, probably the 16. Of course, there was space to move the 16 & 52 out of the bus station onto a roadside stand so I'm not sure if it's the same situation especially when no one has come up with alternative stand spaces besides slashing routes back. I do like the the thinking behind your 16 idea but again, is there space at the coach station? I know the X90 no longer runs but the Oxford Tube has increased in frequency so hasn't it simply taken the X90's space? |
|
|
|
Post by Trafalgax on Feb 7, 2020 22:55:33 GMT
I've encountered similar problems and I think it's fair to say that the current arrangements aren't ideal, also a few pedestrian accidents. I wouldn't be surprised if the 13 was cut back to Marble Arch regardless of whether this idea goes ahead. Unlikely, I reckon there's a far greater chance the 2 will be cut back from Marylebone than the 13 from Victoria. No, it's the other way around. 2 doesn't terminate at Victoria, so no space is required in Victoria for it. Whereas, 13 does, so if this pedestrain thing actually goes to plan, space will be a problem for it. Also, keep in mind that 13 is a 10 mile long route, while 2 is 8 miles long. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Feb 7, 2020 22:56:44 GMT
I think the stand for the 11 was going to be around Victoria coach station so maybe that could be used for the 16.
|
|
|
|
Post by george on Feb 7, 2020 22:57:41 GMT
I think the stand for the 11 was going to be around Victoria coach station so maybe that could be used for the 16. The C2 stand is still free. |
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Feb 7, 2020 23:56:33 GMT
In my opinion these 'plans' are ill thought through, in which respect they have a lot in common with many schemes propagated by BIDs in general. I may well be alone on this forum in actually being a member (albeit reluctantly) of a Business Improvement District, an invention of Gordon Brown's that unfortunately has gained support from all political parties. It is, in effect, an extra tax on shops, restaurants, offices etc in given areas (Victoria in this case) and claims to be democratic in that the majority of businesses in the strictly demarcated area have voted for it in a secret ballot conducted by the local council. Once the majority have voted for it, according to the local council, ALL businesses with a rateable value above £x (it varies from area to area) have to pay it. That is how I, a dissenter to the idea, am forced to pay it as my premises are just above the rateable value cut-off. There is no get-out for five years, when another 'vote' takes place. As the various councils are promoters of the schemes, and issue demands with menaces at the very beginning of the financial year, they of course have a vested interest in their continuation.
So, to this scheme in particular. The artist's impression is the usual banal, cliched, view of human life as it isn't lived in Central London in the 21st century. Not a person over the age of about 45 to be seen, certainly no=one using a stick let alone more disabled, almost all white European, no obvious tourists/visitors, hardly any children,no homeless, nobody struggling with bags of shopping or rushing to work/to get a train/get a bus. Instead, we have a series of zombie=like creatures like you get in films when 'extras' are asked to walk for the 45th time or pretend to be having a conversation.
On the specifics, which I'll over-generously call them. Victoria Bus Station was traditionally the best and most important in London, and therefore, I'd suggest the country, though TfL and other powers-that-be have in recent years done their d*mnedest to downgrade it. With these illiterate plans, downgrading will lead to destruction of the whole edifice, without suitable replacement. A leaf has obviously been taken from the book of those who claim to represent Oxford/Regent/Bond Street shops and other businesses and produced similarly stale proposals to 'revitalise' their area by depriving thousands of people of easily reaching their objective by bus.As most people don't think going non-food shopping should be such a daunting experience, I'm sure a lot of them have deserted Oxford Street and gone elsewhere, maybe never to return.
The fact is that Victoria is amongst the busiest of the railway stations, especially with daily commuters, and most will seek onward public transport options. The entrance to the Underground station is frequently closed for periods in the a.m. peak, usually because of Victoria Line overcrowding, so the numbers seeking buses rises accordingly. How convenient to have a bus station with buses ready and waiting on several different routes: similarly, watch those same buses disgorge loads of passengers in the p.m. peak and into the early evening, most of whom have trains to catch home. Why destroy this most useful object in order to create yet another soulless, windswept 'piazza' which'll have as much in common with Barcelona, say, as a shopping precinct in Basildon has, and will swiftly become litter-strewn and inhabitated by the dispossessed.
You might gather from the above that I'm on the whole agin these proposals!
|
|
|
|
Post by localet44 on Feb 8, 2020 9:21:33 GMT
If they can find somewhere for the buses to go then that would definitely make the area more pleasant. Slight aside, will the through routes (e.g. 2, 11, 148....) be diverted back through Terminus Place at any time soon? Some bus stops appeared but the road is still closed there. I can't understand why Terminus Place hasn't reopened, there is no obvious reason why it can't. Maybe I'm missing something? I heard that buses have not returned to Terminus Place because TFL are waiting for Westminster Council to change the north west corner of the "Little Ben" island and install a bus lane for buses 11, 24, 148, 211 and 507 to go direct towards Westminster. I do not know why the 2, 36 and 185 as well as terminating buses can not use Terminus Place. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Feb 8, 2020 9:37:02 GMT
It's certainly not an insurmountable problem just as it wasn't when the stand at Waterloo closed to be converted into what is now RA and of course the 16 and 52 were removed from Victoria bus station years ago without any great problems. I think at least one route terminating at Victoria should be extended to the coach station, probably the 16. Of course, there was space to move the 16 & 52 out of the bus station onto a roadside stand so I'm not sure if it's the same situation especially when no one has come up with alternative stand spaces besides slashing routes back. I do like the the thinking behind your 16 idea but again, is there space at the coach station? I know the X90 no longer runs but the Oxford Tube has increased in frequency so hasn't it simply taken the X90's space? There was a stand in Eccleston Place close to the coach station when some routes were temporarily extended there out of service when the bus station was closed. |
|
|
|
Post by ServerKing on Feb 8, 2020 11:45:49 GMT
IanVisits reports that there are aspirations to close the Victoria Bus Station and pedestrianise the area in front to the station to have a station square similar to that of King’s Cross.  source IanVisits website Put forward by people who haven't changed between bus & the station during the works. Is that a Crossrail symbol above the station entrance on the right?  They haven't even finished the first one  So just as the buses are returning to Victoria after the bus station was completed, we're going to rip it all up again?  |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 8, 2020 13:10:04 GMT
Put forward by people who haven't changed between bus & the station during the works. Is that a Crossrail symbol above the station entrance on the right? They haven't even finished the first one So just as the buses are returning to Victoria after the bus station was completed, we're going to rip it all up again? Another arty farty hipster idea. It it basically saying two fingers up to buses. How would it make the area more identifiable as it says. Seems to be designed by another career boosting idiot. |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 8, 2020 13:13:22 GMT
And no doubt the first to complain if they have to walk a bit further to their bus! Two questions: 1) Where will all the present routes terminate and stand? 2)If the snowflakes want a piaza build one on a raft ABOVE the existing bus station. Or, walk around the corner and amble around in front of Westminster Cathedral  I think it looks quite nice... All artist impressions look nice. When the place it built or change, it looks no better. The paving changes colour, places is then filled with rubbish and vagabonds. |
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 8, 2020 13:22:17 GMT
Such ideas always look good on paper but the reality is often awful. Seems to be all done with the cyclist in mind and the bus is being seen as “evil” <snip> It's a pedestrian plaza - what does it have to do with cycling? The space in front of Victoria Station has long been crowded and unpleasant (although the rebuilding of the Underground station didn't help matters). This will enhance the area in general and will make using the station a far better experience. Where to put the buses is not an insurmountable problem. It would be worst, how is moving buses going to solve crowding. When its raining it would be an empty space, the station has more pleasant places to wait, congregate etc. Plus it has a nice decent mall inside. Only snowflakes would want to go to these pathetic piazza shops. Open spaces like these are also a dangerous place to be as they are ideal for terrorists to carry out atrocities. |
|
|
|
Post by londonbuses2018 on Feb 8, 2020 13:32:22 GMT
Absolutely atrocious this is a vital link to the Tube, Rail lines to the South East etc oh and Heathrow, so yeah I dam well hope TFL block this just like the removal of the Coach station to Marylebone.
|
|
They haven't even finished the first one 
