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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 15:04:35 GMT
It's both, not one against the other. Exactly it doesn't have to be one or the other and cycling is positively booming at the moment. Wonder if it will be when its dark at 5pm and cold in November. Of course it will boom in the summer and probably does every year. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 26, 2020 15:11:24 GMT
Exactly it doesn't have to be one or the other and cycling is positively booming at the moment. Wonder if it will be when its dark at 5pm and cold in November. Of course it will boom in the summer and probably does every year. The boom started when the lock down did in March although it's a fair point about November, we shall see. |
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Post by M1104 on Jul 26, 2020 15:11:26 GMT
Unfortunately for me I keep my cycling to a minimum¹ as they are too many irresponsible drivers about nowadays. I certainly wouldn't attempt to it in a more centralised part of London let alone Mitcham ¹ - purely for exercising I'm only really a part time cyclist mostly for leisure and keeping fit but my local cycle shop has been manic since the pandemic started. Yes it's catching up with the toilet paper craze from March/April |
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Post by redbus on Jul 26, 2020 21:11:20 GMT
Lots have people have bought or got out their bicycles and bike shops have been really busy. What I haven't yet seen and what this hasn't yet translated to, but maybe the roads I see aren't typical, is a significant increase in cyclists out and about. I don't see the new cycle lanes getting great use. There is some extra use, but that's all. The problem is whether the average person really want to cycle for their day to day journeys, and it is not clear that they do.
The government and TfL are in a bit of a bind, they want central London to get going again but to maintain social distancing they feel the need to convert road space to pavement, leaving even less space for traffic including buses. Tubes and buses currently have very limited capacity so how do you get people into central London? The government and TfL's answer is cycling and walking but I am not convinced London is Amsterdam and it is questionable whether this answer will work. The government and TfL are doing what they can to encourage walking and cycling with more pavement and cycle lanes but as far as I can see so far this isn't having anything like the desired effect. The government and TfL may well yet find they can't force modal change. They also haven't really thought things through, for if people make the modal switch to cycling, this is unlikely, particularly in central London, to reduce car usage, instead it will take passengers away from the tubes and buses, potentially permanently. If enough people make this switch you suddenly have a huge problem on how to fund the tubes and buses, you have to be careful what you wish for.
I was amused to see a TfL poster with a picture of a girl on a bicycle suggesting one takes the bike to the shops. If you do that and help the economy by buying goods, unless the goods are pretty small how on earth do you get the goods home on your bike?
What needs to be done is to change the message, make it clear that buses, tubes and trains are safe and there to be used. Let's try and fill some of the spare capacity particularly off-peak to get London going again. I accept some bus routes and tubes are really busy and can't handle more passengers in the peaks, but this is far from the case everywhere.
I hear buses should be the number 1 priority on London's roads, but let's hear where they really stand against cycling and walking. If buses were truly the number 1 priority then let's look back at the last ten years where journey times have kept going up due to road layout changes and see what can be done to bring bus journey times back to where they were. That would encourage more people onto buses due to faster journey times, fewer buses would be needed to provide the service, all this equals lower cost, more revenue, so a lower subsidy required. Win, win, win!
As for obesity and cycling being the answer, well yes it could be part of the answer. There are lots of ways of having more exercise and cycling is only one such way. We live in a free country and whilst it is good to encourage more exercise and a healthy lifestyle, people must be free to exercise more in whatever way they choose. Oh and before anyone says I am anti-cyclist that's not so, just a case of horses for courses, cycling is great for some, just not for everyone. If people wish to exercise more by cycling that's great, but equally if they prefer some other means, that too is fine.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 27, 2020 6:50:36 GMT
Lots have people have bought or got out their bicycles and bike shops have been really busy. What I haven't yet seen and what this hasn't yet translated to, but maybe the roads I see aren't typical, is a significant increase in cyclists out and about. I don't see the new cycle lanes getting great use. There is some extra use, but that's all. The problem is whether the average person really want to cycle for their day to day journeys, and it is not clear that they do. The government and TfL are in a bit of a bind, they want central London to get going again but to maintain social distancing they feel the need to convert road space to pavement, leaving even less space for traffic including buses. Tubes and buses currently have very limited capacity so how do you get people into central London? The government and TfL's answer is cycling and walking but I am not convinced London is Amsterdam and it is questionable whether this answer will work. The government and TfL are doing what they can to encourage walking and cycling with more pavement and cycle lanes but as far as I can see so far this isn't having anything like the desired effect. The government and TfL may well yet find they can't force modal change. They also haven't really thought things through, for if people make the modal switch to cycling, this is unlikely, particularly in central London, to reduce car usage, instead it will take passengers away from the tubes and buses, potentially permanently. If enough people make this switch you suddenly have a huge problem on how to fund the tubes and buses, you have to be careful what you wish for. I was amused to see a TfL poster with a picture of a girl on a bicycle suggesting one takes the bike to the shops. If you do that and help the economy by buying goods, unless the goods are pretty small how on earth do you get the goods home on your bike? What needs to be done is to change the message, make it clear that buses, tubes and trains are safe and there to be used. Let's try and fill some of the spare capacity particularly off-peak to get London going again. I accept some bus routes and tubes are really busy and can't handle more passengers in the peaks, but this is far from the case everywhere. I hear buses should be the number 1 priority on London's roads, but let's hear where they really stand against cycling and walking. If buses were truly the number 1 priority then let's look back at the last ten years where journey times have kept going up due to road layout changes and see what can be done to bring bus journey times back to where they were. That would encourage more people onto buses due to faster journey times, fewer buses would be needed to provide the service, all this equals lower cost, more revenue, so a lower subsidy required. Win, win, win! As for obesity and cycling being the answer, well yes it could be part of the answer. There are lots of ways of having more exercise and cycling is only one such way. We live in a free country and whilst it is good to encourage more exercise and a healthy lifestyle, people must be free to exercise more in whatever way they choose. Oh and before anyone says I am anti-cyclist that's not so, just a case of horses for courses, cycling is great for some, just not for everyone. If people wish to exercise more by cycling that's great, but equally if they prefer some other means, that too is fine. The truth is London's streets can't accommodate everything. I'm ok with Oxford Street pedestrianised purely due to its safety but idk if anywhere else could benefit. What London has in the middle of town is a selection of A/B roads which aren't used by buses and Actually you can use them to get from Edgware Road to Angel so I think if cyclists were to be introduced there I'd be fine. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 7:57:31 GMT
I’ve been working in central London a lot over the last months. The cycling hasn’t in my opinion took off in a big way. There is evidence of extra leisure time use at weekends and evenings. Those people working from home make up a big proportion of cyclists , so things are far from normal even now.
There is a big backlash against new cycle lanes on Euston Road and Park Lane. Locally, Tower Hamlets are facing protest groups after a scheme there has made Roman Road a traffic jam all day.
I don’t think we will see true changes until next year.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 27, 2020 8:02:35 GMT
Lots have people have bought or got out their bicycles and bike shops have been really busy. What I haven't yet seen and what this hasn't yet translated to, but maybe the roads I see aren't typical, is a significant increase in cyclists out and about. I don't see the new cycle lanes getting great use. There is some extra use, but that's all. The problem is whether the average person really want to cycle for their day to day journeys, and it is not clear that they do. The government and TfL are in a bit of a bind, they want central London to get going again but to maintain social distancing they feel the need to convert road space to pavement, leaving even less space for traffic including buses. Tubes and buses currently have very limited capacity so how do you get people into central London? The government and TfL's answer is cycling and walking but I am not convinced London is Amsterdam and it is questionable whether this answer will work. The government and TfL are doing what they can to encourage walking and cycling with more pavement and cycle lanes but as far as I can see so far this isn't having anything like the desired effect. The government and TfL may well yet find they can't force modal change. They also haven't really thought things through, for if people make the modal switch to cycling, this is unlikely, particularly in central London, to reduce car usage, instead it will take passengers away from the tubes and buses, potentially permanently. If enough people make this switch you suddenly have a huge problem on how to fund the tubes and buses, you have to be careful what you wish for. I was amused to see a TfL poster with a picture of a girl on a bicycle suggesting one takes the bike to the shops. If you do that and help the economy by buying goods, unless the goods are pretty small how on earth do you get the goods home on your bike? What needs to be done is to change the message, make it clear that buses, tubes and trains are safe and there to be used. Let's try and fill some of the spare capacity particularly off-peak to get London going again. I accept some bus routes and tubes are really busy and can't handle more passengers in the peaks, but this is far from the case everywhere. I hear buses should be the number 1 priority on London's roads, but let's hear where they really stand against cycling and walking. If buses were truly the number 1 priority then let's look back at the last ten years where journey times have kept going up due to road layout changes and see what can be done to bring bus journey times back to where they were. That would encourage more people onto buses due to faster journey times, fewer buses would be needed to provide the service, all this equals lower cost, more revenue, so a lower subsidy required. Win, win, win! As for obesity and cycling being the answer, well yes it could be part of the answer. There are lots of ways of having more exercise and cycling is only one such way. We live in a free country and whilst it is good to encourage more exercise and a healthy lifestyle, people must be free to exercise more in whatever way they choose. Oh and before anyone says I am anti-cyclist that's not so, just a case of horses for courses, cycling is great for some, just not for everyone. If people wish to exercise more by cycling that's great, but equally if they prefer some other means, that too is fine. As things stand at the moment nobody can send out a message saying that buses tubes and trains are safe to be used....... comply with social distancing and face covering rules and you should be ok but obviously there are no guarantees. The dilemma is that if more people start using public transport it will become crowded which will then put other people off using it. I've been using the train into Central London recently and they're very lightly loaded and social distancing isn't a problem, I've also made a few short bus journeys in Central London and again they're lightly loaded, if they were crowded I would walk instead. I'm also mindful that if I get on a crowded bus I might be denying a place to somebody else who isn't able to walk. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 27, 2020 8:09:17 GMT
I’ve been working in central London a lot over the last months. The cycling hasn’t in my opinion took off in a big way. There is evidence of extra leisure time use at weekends and evenings. Those people working from home make up a big proportion of cyclists , so things are far from normal even now. There is a big backlash against new cycle lanes on Euston Road and Park Lane. Locally, Tower Hamlets are facing protest groups after a scheme there has made Roman Road a traffic jam all day. I don’t think we will see true changes until next year. I think the new arrangement in Park Lane is great, a segregated two way cycle lane, a bus lane and a lane for everyone else and it all seems to work very well and will probably become permanent. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 27, 2020 10:35:18 GMT
I’ve been working in central London a lot over the last months. The cycling hasn’t in my opinion took off in a big way. There is evidence of extra leisure time use at weekends and evenings. Those people working from home make up a big proportion of cyclists , so things are far from normal even now. There is a big backlash against new cycle lanes on Euston Road and Park Lane. Locally, Tower Hamlets are facing protest groups after a scheme there has made Roman Road a traffic jam all day. I don’t think we will see true changes until next year. I think the new arrangement in Park Lane is great, a segregated two way cycle lane, a bus lane and a lane for everyone else and it all seems to work very well and will probably become permanent. It only currently works well because the area is dead - we won't know how well it works until Park Lane returns to at least a near normal state so saying it currently works means nothing. |
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 27, 2020 11:13:16 GMT
A review into bus driver deaths from Covid-19 has concluded that earlier lockdown would have saved lives. The report, commissioned by London Mayor Sadiq Khan and undertaken by the UCL (University College London) Institute of Social Equity, revealed that London bus drivers aged 20-65 were 3.5 times more likely to die than men in other occupations across England and Wales. A total of 29 London bus drivers are known to have died of Covid-19 and there are a couple more cases where Covid-19 may have been a factor. The report notes that London was an early hotspot for infections and concludes that if lockdown had come earlier, it is likely that fewer London bus drivers would have died. Throughout England and Wales as a whole there were 70 more bus driver deaths from March to May than would have been expected. Of these, 53 had Covid-19 mentioned on the death certificate and 17 did not. On examining 13 of the death certificates in more detail, hypertension - high blood pressure - was listed as a contributing factor on seven of them, suggesting that action on reducing hypertension amongst bus drivers should become a focus for bus operators going forward. More details: www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/earlier-lockdown-could-have-saved-lives-of-london-bus-drivers-says-report-coronavirus |
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 27, 2020 11:42:05 GMT
Lots have people have bought or got out their bicycles and bike shops have been really busy. What I haven't yet seen and what this hasn't yet translated to, but maybe the roads I see aren't typical, is a significant increase in cyclists out and about. I don't see the new cycle lanes getting great use. There is some extra use, but that's all. The problem is whether the average person really want to cycle for their day to day journeys, and it is not clear that they do. The government and TfL are in a bit of a bind, they want central London to get going again but to maintain social distancing they feel the need to convert road space to pavement, leaving even less space for traffic including buses. Tubes and buses currently have very limited capacity so how do you get people into central London? The government and TfL's answer is cycling and walking but I am not convinced London is Amsterdam and it is questionable whether this answer will work. The government and TfL are doing what they can to encourage walking and cycling with more pavement and cycle lanes but as far as I can see so far this isn't having anything like the desired effect. The government and TfL may well yet find they can't force modal change. They also haven't really thought things through, for if people make the modal switch to cycling, this is unlikely, particularly in central London, to reduce car usage, instead it will take passengers away from the tubes and buses, potentially permanently. If enough people make this switch you suddenly have a huge problem on how to fund the tubes and buses, you have to be careful what you wish for. I was amused to see a TfL poster with a picture of a girl on a bicycle suggesting one takes the bike to the shops. If you do that and help the economy by buying goods, unless the goods are pretty small how on earth do you get the goods home on your bike? What needs to be done is to change the message, make it clear that buses, tubes and trains are safe and there to be used. Let's try and fill some of the spare capacity particularly off-peak to get London going again. I accept some bus routes and tubes are really busy and can't handle more passengers in the peaks, but this is far from the case everywhere. I hear buses should be the number 1 priority on London's roads, but let's hear where they really stand against cycling and walking. If buses were truly the number 1 priority then let's look back at the last ten years where journey times have kept going up due to road layout changes and see what can be done to bring bus journey times back to where they were. That would encourage more people onto buses due to faster journey times, fewer buses would be needed to provide the service, all this equals lower cost, more revenue, so a lower subsidy required. Win, win, win! As for obesity and cycling being the answer, well yes it could be part of the answer. There are lots of ways of having more exercise and cycling is only one such way. We live in a free country and whilst it is good to encourage more exercise and a healthy lifestyle, people must be free to exercise more in whatever way they choose. Oh and before anyone says I am anti-cyclist that's not so, just a case of horses for courses, cycling is great for some, just not for everyone. If people wish to exercise more by cycling that's great, but equally if they prefer some other means, that too is fine. I had to go to Aldgate East in the morning peak twice last week (and again tomorrow) for an 0830 arrival. The Circle/ H&C line from Paddington was super quiet, with only the middle 2-3 carriages seeing passenger numbers touching double digits. The TfL Rail from Southall to Paddington did reach double digits in all carriages, the complete opposite of the super-wedged experience about 5 months ago. Much nicer for those still commuting  but sadly not sustainable at all for any decent length of time. Similar story on the way back around 1300 as well. One of those days I used District line to Hammersmith (as a security alert killed the H&C line and I couldn't be bothered to change again at Embankment for Paddington), and major tourist places like Embankment, Westminster and South Kensington were way down on normal. Again I'm not sure if passenger numbers in any carriage crossed into the 20s, and mine was always in single digits. Even quieter on the Piccadilly line in the front carriage of a Hatton Cross train (terminating there as Terminal 4 station is closed). On a line that is usually very busy east of the Hounslow area, we were down to 3 passengers in my carriage at one point. Again very nice to have such a quiet Piccadilly line , but this situation really won't work financially. Buses are a different story My 120 home that day reached Hounslow Central station with around 30-35 passengers, and I was one of the last allowed on before it missed two stops in Heston. A couple of days later, my brother was unlucky at Southall station by getting left behind twice because of the 35 limit  . Elsewhere in the area, things are worse for the 19 capacity 203 after double deckers got banned from it, consistently exceeding capacity when a friend used it to/from work. He actually changed route by staying on the 90 and paying extra for the train from Feltham to Staines. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 27, 2020 12:00:39 GMT
I’ve been working in central London a lot over the last months. The cycling hasn’t in my opinion took off in a big way. There is evidence of extra leisure time use at weekends and evenings. Those people working from home make up a big proportion of cyclists , so things are far from normal even now. There is a big backlash against new cycle lanes on Euston Road and Park Lane. Locally, Tower Hamlets are facing protest groups after a scheme there has made Roman Road a traffic jam all day. I don’t think we will see true changes until next year. I think the inflation in cycling has been inflated a lot more than it should be. A lot of people are taking out the Santander bikes more so for leisure as there's nothing else to do as opposed to actually being used for commuting. It's all well and good having people cycling in the Sun in a pandemic where the weather is good and there's less traffic on the roads. However we need to accept the reality that once traffic returns people will either start to abandon cycling due to the danger it once again brings with it or just start using the bus and tube again. Cycling priority is very disproportionate in who it benefits. Bus lanes would be so much more productive - CS3 for example passes outside my house and is rarely used however a bus lane for the 173 would make that route a lot more reliable. The more cycle lanes we have, the less road space we have, the less road space we have the more traffic we have and then we just get more pollution of cars and buses running around in fuel consuming first and second gears. I'm a bit thankful Barking and Dagenham don't care about their roads that much, they're landmines however the big ones get their potholes filled and nobody there has considered setting up any cycle lanes yet. I think another factor people don't look at is mugging, it's a slightly morbid factor however crime for bikes is extremely rife in London and it does put off many people from using them. |
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Post by george on Jul 27, 2020 12:14:01 GMT
It's not surprise that a bus forum has got so many anti cyclists but for me personally cycling into work has been great especially when we was in full lockdown as it just felt a lot safer than getting on public transport during this time and yes I did cycle in rainy weather as well.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 27, 2020 12:25:06 GMT
It's not surprise that a bus forum has got so many anti cyclists but for me personally cycling into work has been great especially when we was in full lockdown as it just felt a lot safer than getting on public transport during this time and yes I did cycle in rainy weather as well. George, we're not anti cyclist per se, it's just the Lycra Louts who think they are a law to themselves. I personnally was hit by one on a Pelican Crossing, and told to "F off out of my way" If the social workers in uniform spent a bit more time upholding the RTA regarding cyclists, we would be more tolerant. Now we got electric scooters to contend with. |
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Post by george on Jul 27, 2020 12:31:51 GMT
It's not surprise that a bus forum has got so many anti cyclists but for me personally cycling into work has been great especially when we was in full lockdown as it just felt a lot safer than getting on public transport during this time and yes I did cycle in rainy weather as well. George, we're not anti cyclist per se, it's just the Lycra Louts who think they are a law to themselves. I personnally was hit by one on a Pelican Crossing, and told to "F off out of my way" If the social workers in uniform spent a bit more time upholding the RTA regarding cyclists, we would be more tolerant. Now we got electric scooters to contend with. I can't tell you how much I dislike these kind of cyclists maybe I'm in the minority but I can tell you I'm not like them and follow all the rules of the road. I don't go to gyms as I just don't like that kind of atmosphere but of course I want to stay as fit and healthy as I can so the way I do this is by riding my bike that's all. |
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but sadly not sustainable at all for any decent length of time.
. Elsewhere in the area, things are worse for the 19 capacity 203 after double deckers got banned from it, consistently exceeding capacity when a friend used it to/from work. He actually changed route by staying on the 90 and paying extra for the train from Feltham to Staines.
