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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 18:11:55 GMT
Not all parents , carers etc do spend loads of money and some are on much lower incomes now, perhaps even under threat of being made redundant. My kids certainly don’t get bought top of the range of anything. Hand me downs and holidays in the UK. Because we can’t afford to go abroad, Of course we budget for cost of sending the kids to school. But it is something I would rather , a) like to be free or b) not bother sending them by bus anymore because we could put that £1k towards home improvements or something else. Choice of schools comes into play as well. In Kent there is the 11+ still. So you want them to pass this, then it means the going to a school perhaps further away. Hence, needing to travel by bus , if it were not to impinge on parents working day. Just playing devil’s advocate why should their travel be free when you have openly chosen to send them to a school further away, even if it is better. Now, if they had no choice but to go to a school further away fine let them have free travel, it’s not their fault, but if you make the choice you should pay. I would say the same to any parent in the same situation, send your child to the local school and make them work harder in after school sessions or with extra studying, better schools don’t always produce better results. Travel shouldn’t just be free because you want them to have a better education. I of course recognise your point that you budget for their travel, I’m just asking the question. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 5, 2020 18:12:16 GMT
I feel very bad for you @rob and I ask is this the school running the bus or a private company?
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Post by rif153 on Aug 5, 2020 18:14:26 GMT
Might be if they can't get concessions for similar funding in their own constituencies. Looks bad if you vote for something to receive central government funding your constituents do not get. I would certainly be asking questions of my MP in such a scenario. Would also look bad however if you intentionally go out of your way to increase hardship on children. The DfT often blame Sadiq Khan but I imagine they'll give a more substantial response to the petition than the sort a minister gives in the Commons. |
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Post by rif153 on Aug 5, 2020 18:22:02 GMT
We seem to have come again to the debate on how parents should spend their money. To be honest I think its quite harsh to generalise whole demographics from a small number of examples, I understand the argument that parents should prioritise spending money on travel rather than luxuries but I'd argue that not every parent is the same and there are some who are struggling to get by and won't be able to afford paying for children's travel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 18:42:18 GMT
Not all parents , carers etc do spend loads of money and some are on much lower incomes now, perhaps even under threat of being made redundant. My kids certainly don’t get bought top of the range of anything. Hand me downs and holidays in the UK. Because we can’t afford to go abroad, Of course we budget for cost of sending the kids to school. But it is something I would rather , a) like to be free or b) not bother sending them by bus anymore because we could put that £1k towards home improvements or something else. Choice of schools comes into play as well. In Kent there is the 11+ still. So you want them to pass this, then it means the going to a school perhaps further away. Hence, needing to travel by bus , if it were not to impinge on parents working day. Just playing devil’s advocate why should their travel be free when you have openly chosen to send them to a school further away, even if it is better. Now, if they had no choice but to go to a school further away fine let them have free travel, it’s not their fault, but if you make the choice you should pay. I would say the same to any parent in the same situation, send your child to the local school and make them work harder in after school sessions or with extra studying, better schools don’t always produce better results. Travel shouldn’t just be free because you want them to have a better education. I of course recognise your point that you budget for their travel, I’m just asking the question. That's fine and I can answer it. Why should a child who lives in Thamesmead travel to school for free and one who lives in Horton Kirby pay? To go to the same school. I don't mind paying though because I don't expect things to be for free. I was always brought up to save and not to expect things to be given. My original point is the amount. This pays for a bus that is older than the eldest service bus in London, to haphazardly turn up, not to run at the right time on Wednesdays when the school closes early, overcrowded... You mention choice of schools. The right thing to do as a parent is to try and get your child in the best school possible. That's why property prices are so high near the best schools. Ironically, those like me who can't afford to live near the school, pay more for travel than those who are better off and live just around the corner so can walk to school. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 5, 2020 19:03:02 GMT
Not all parents , carers etc do spend loads of money and some are on much lower incomes now, perhaps even under threat of being made redundant. My kids certainly don’t get bought top of the range of anything. Hand me downs and holidays in the UK. Because we can’t afford to go abroad, Of course we budget for cost of sending the kids to school. But it is something I would rather , a) like to be free or b) not bother sending them by bus anymore because we could put that £1k towards home improvements or something else. Choice of schools comes into play as well. In Kent there is the 11+ still. So you want them to pass this, then it means the going to a school perhaps further away. Hence, needing to travel by bus , if it were not to impinge on parents working day. Just playing devil’s advocate why should their travel be free when you have openly chosen to send them to a school further away, even if it is better. Now, if they had no choice but to go to a school further away fine let them have free travel, it’s not their fault, but if you make the choice you should pay. I would say the same to any parent in the same situation, send your child to the local school and make them work harder in after school sessions or with extra studying, better schools don’t always produce better results. Travel shouldn’t just be free because you want them to have a better education. I of course recognise your point that you budget for their travel, I’m just asking the question. It however allows every single child to get into a good school to give them the best prospects. If free travel was fully scrapped then the poorer children are unlikely to be able to afford to get into the best school no matter how clever they are, for all we know they could be the one to find the cure to cancer. The difference in achievement will be far higher among children from richer households and the poorer children are unlikely to be able to get the grades that they truly deserve. The argument obviously given is "children outside London don't have it so why should London children have it". Well what should happen in this case is children outside London get free travel and not the other way around. For example 5G for instance was rolled out to major cities first, so if you live in the outskirts you don't start shouting saying "well we manage with 4G, Londoners don't need 5G" instead you wait for it to come to you and realise that it's a step forward. You should encourage steps forward rather than people who live outside London get jealous and then claim the stripping back of something already the case here. I understand that now in this climate where TfL is severely cash strapped that a temporary suspension of free travel is fine, as long as school provision is seen for. But it should really be reintroduced after finances are in a better state. I also find it ridiculous that people always attack children travel when I believe Freedom passes should be suspended far before Childrens free travel should. Freedom pass holders often have access to money from the government while children under 16 do not, they get £20 a month Child Benefit which isn't going to go very far. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 19:43:54 GMT
Just playing devil’s advocate why should their travel be free when you have openly chosen to send them to a school further away, even if it is better. Now, if they had no choice but to go to a school further away fine let them have free travel, it’s not their fault, but if you make the choice you should pay. I would say the same to any parent in the same situation, send your child to the local school and make them work harder in after school sessions or with extra studying, better schools don’t always produce better results. Travel shouldn’t just be free because you want them to have a better education. I of course recognise your point that you budget for their travel, I’m just asking the question. That's fine and I can answer it. Why should a child who lives in Thamesmead travel to school for free and one who lives in Horton Kirby pay? To go to the same school. I don't mind paying though because I don't expect things to be for free. I was always brought up to save and not to expect things to be given. My original point is the amount. This pays for a bus that is older than the eldest service bus in London, to haphazardly turn up, not to run at the right time on Wednesdays when the school closes early, overcrowded... You mention choice of schools. The right thing to do as a parent is to try and get your child in the best school possible. That's why property prices are so high near the best schools. Ironically, those like me who can't afford to live near the school, pay more for travel than those who are better off and live just around the corner so can walk to school. I would agree that needs to be addressed, perhaps a conversation with the PTA and the company would help resolve some of these issues. Yes as a parent you should want the best for your child but if, and not you personally, cannot afford the travel there are alternatives to making sure your child is given every advantage. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 20:00:30 GMT
Just playing devil’s advocate why should their travel be free when you have openly chosen to send them to a school further away, even if it is better. Now, if they had no choice but to go to a school further away fine let them have free travel, it’s not their fault, but if you make the choice you should pay. I would say the same to any parent in the same situation, send your child to the local school and make them work harder in after school sessions or with extra studying, better schools don’t always produce better results. Travel shouldn’t just be free because you want them to have a better education. I of course recognise your point that you budget for their travel, I’m just asking the question. It however allows every single child to get into a good school to give them the best prospects. If free travel was fully scrapped then the poorer children are unlikely to be able to afford to get into the best school no matter how clever they are, for all we know they could be the one to find the cure to cancer. The difference in achievement will be far higher among children from richer households and the poorer children are unlikely to be able to get the grades that they truly deserve. The argument obviously given is "children outside London don't have it so why should London children have it". Well what should happen in this case is children outside London get free travel and not the other way around. For example 5G for instance was rolled out to major cities first, so if you live in the outskirts you don't start shouting saying "well we manage with 4G, Londoners don't need 5G" instead you wait for it to come to you and realise that it's a step forward. You should encourage steps forward rather than people who live outside London get jealous and then claim the stripping back of something already the case here. I understand that now in this climate where TfL is severely cash strapped that a temporary suspension of free travel is fine, as long as school provision is seen for. But it should really be reintroduced after finances are in a better state. I also find it ridiculous that people always attack children travel when I believe Freedom passes should be suspended far before Childrens free travel should. Freedom pass holders often have access to money from the government while children under 16 do not, they get £20 a month Child Benefit which isn't going to go very far. Let’s be honest with ourselves, no child wakes up and knows how to cure cancer. This has to be learned and there is no reason why someone from a poorer background couldn’t work hard to achieve their goals of becoming a scientist to cure cancer. Education doesn’t create limitations people do, you’re writing off an entire group of young people because they don’t have free travel, what utter nonsense. These days there are plenty of free after school clubs, out of school activities and various other tools to help young people achieve anything they want. They just need to be encouraged by their parents, using free travel as a reason for them not achieving is a poor excuse. I believe in reduced fares for every young person across the country, but what is so different about London that no one can afford fares. Wages are generally higher, even if rents are as well but travel is entirely affordable compared to other parts of the country. Most OAPs who use the freedom pass are on fixed incomes, they have no means to earn more but guess what the parents who sit down and watch tv for 8 hours every night could if they truly wanted too or perhaps they could give up their luxury tv packages or expensive holidays or maybe, oh I dunno, live within their means. People need to take responsibility for themselves and their own without the government needing to pay for everything, scores of generations before us were able too so why not us? |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 5, 2020 20:34:19 GMT
Fare problems need to at some point need to be addressed.
What's happened with free travel is that people have used the system to instead of walking take the bus. It's not a mentality that will get us to solve problems like obesity and more fundamental bus problems like overcrowding and anti social behaviour.
I'll use the 143 as an example
When you look at the fundamental elements of bus services such as it being reliable and is generally pleasant is something many routes achieve however, the 143 unfortunately does not tick these boxes for many reasons. The route just passes through an eternity of schools.
What surprises me is even after the 611 is going is how the people behind TFL expect people will wanna take a 112. I suspect people will ram the 143 instead.
The 112 is not close to the school, which imo should be a focus point of becoming a school route. The 112 was a terrible example of a route to try extend to North Finchley due to its:
- Heavy reliance on the A406 which the Madeley Road reroute will only worsen due to it not serving Ealing Common & Ealing Broadway High Street, as well as now preventing deckers.
The 112 & 232 both have heavy reliance on the A406 which is why more often than not people choose to use the 143. The only children I ever see use the 232 are CCF, so how on earth will people choose to walk 10 or so minutes to the A406 which is dirty and polluted?
All of the 112, 143 & 232 have got reliability issues already, so why worsen them? The 112, sure will help the 232 out but does it really? Like I've mentioned, the 232 could do with Double Deckers and be withdrawn between St Raphael's North and St Raphael's to ensure it can take deckers.
It may seem like I'm rambling on a bit, but truthfully school kids are lazy so why would they walk when they can ram a 143. Both the 143 & 232 need double deckers, the 143 has got horrendous problems with overcrowding and imo could definitely be at risk post COVID due to its following of the 326 between Finchley Central Station & Brent Cross and the 125 between Long Lane & Hendon, The Quadrant. With the loss of the round the corner link at Stephens House which could lead to children ramming onto a 143 at Finchley Central and also ramming onto 13s and 460s for those who live on Regents Park Road.
With an introduction of a cheap fare scheme where children pay 20p for a bus ride we could start to see changes in income for tfl and in overcrowding.
However, likely the anti social element won't change.
A lot of school children (not all but the minority) can be, put bluntly obnoxious. This is an issue across the capital and needs to be addressed. Secondary schools usually have some form of rivalry, forcing children into a bus stop where other rival school children are on a busy carriageway with heavy traffic and 2 unreliable bus routes would make me feel uncomfortable. Normally children on the 143 can be loud, in trips to and from family I do pick up the "oh this driver threatened to call the police today because so and so were shouting super loudly and were fighting" I don't think it really is good leaving rival schools at the same bus stop as this could lead to fights.
The other fundamental I highlighted was reliability. With the 143 at the moment, it is very late to bus stops due to the heavy influx of schools it serves.
With less children boarding the bus due to social distancing presumably until next spring and with fares in place, could we see a shift from the bus to walking and buses becoming more reliable?
The answer to this could only be told when we go back. And I'm sure it's a similar story with the 31 & C11. So for whoever thought it was a good idea to reroute the 143 to Mill Hill (I think it was ADH45258) just remember that as soon as you do that you put tonnes more pressure on other routes and you end up choking the 143. Many people use the route from Brent Cross very regularly and it carries incredibly good loadings off peak, so why change it?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 5, 2020 22:55:14 GMT
It however allows every single child to get into a good school to give them the best prospects. If free travel was fully scrapped then the poorer children are unlikely to be able to afford to get into the best school no matter how clever they are, for all we know they could be the one to find the cure to cancer. The difference in achievement will be far higher among children from richer households and the poorer children are unlikely to be able to get the grades that they truly deserve. The argument obviously given is "children outside London don't have it so why should London children have it". Well what should happen in this case is children outside London get free travel and not the other way around. For example 5G for instance was rolled out to major cities first, so if you live in the outskirts you don't start shouting saying "well we manage with 4G, Londoners don't need 5G" instead you wait for it to come to you and realise that it's a step forward. You should encourage steps forward rather than people who live outside London get jealous and then claim the stripping back of something already the case here. I understand that now in this climate where TfL is severely cash strapped that a temporary suspension of free travel is fine, as long as school provision is seen for. But it should really be reintroduced after finances are in a better state. I also find it ridiculous that people always attack children travel when I believe Freedom passes should be suspended far before Childrens free travel should. Freedom pass holders often have access to money from the government while children under 16 do not, they get £20 a month Child Benefit which isn't going to go very far. Let’s be honest with ourselves, no child wakes up and knows how to cure cancer. This has to be learned and there is no reason why someone from a poorer background couldn’t work hard to achieve their goals of becoming a scientist to cure cancer. Education doesn’t create limitations people do, you’re writing off an entire group of young people because they don’t have free travel, what utter nonsense. These days there are plenty of free after school clubs, out of school activities and various other tools to help young people achieve anything they want. They just need to be encouraged by their parents, using free travel as a reason for them not achieving is a poor excuse. I believe in reduced fares for every young person across the country, but what is so different about London that no one can afford fares. Wages are generally higher, even if rents are as well but travel is entirely affordable compared to other parts of the country. Most OAPs who use the freedom pass are on fixed incomes, they have no means to earn more but guess what the parents who sit down and watch tv for 8 hours every night could if they truly wanted too or perhaps they could give up their luxury tv packages or expensive holidays or maybe, oh I dunno, live within their means. People need to take responsibility for themselves and their own without the government needing to pay for everything, scores of generations before us were able too so why not us? I think you need to realise that schools have league tables and the ones higher up tend to be better at putting students into good Unis which will enable a student to develop. Should a child not go to a good school that matches their ability they miss out on a lot. There's also the case where many parents spend their children to faith schools and they have every right to want this. Just like OAPs parents are on a fixed income, even more so as parents need to spread this income across a whole family while OAPs get the allowance to themselves. What's wrong with a parent wanting to watch TV at night? Can you really not bare to help out the poorer people in the community by having TfL pay for fares? Is it really that hard? If OAPs can get free passes then children have every single right to, I keep saying Children have no income of their own apart from £20 of Child benefit, that is barely going to cover any travel cost. OAPs have an income, they get money to live on however a child does not. If OAPs get free travel and money to go with it all then what exactly is wrong with children getting free travel? Children are vulnerable in the community too and deserve to go places. Scores of generations before us could pay for buses yes that true. However, Currently a remote Island in the Indian Ocean does not have Internet and currently hunts with spears and swords and they don't even know how to make fire. They don't have internet or fire so do we say that we should have those benefits removed from us? Well they can live without it so surely we can too? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 23:30:23 GMT
Let’s be honest with ourselves, no child wakes up and knows how to cure cancer. This has to be learned and there is no reason why someone from a poorer background couldn’t work hard to achieve their goals of becoming a scientist to cure cancer. Education doesn’t create limitations people do, you’re writing off an entire group of young people because they don’t have free travel, what utter nonsense. These days there are plenty of free after school clubs, out of school activities and various other tools to help young people achieve anything they want. They just need to be encouraged by their parents, using free travel as a reason for them not achieving is a poor excuse. I believe in reduced fares for every young person across the country, but what is so different about London that no one can afford fares. Wages are generally higher, even if rents are as well but travel is entirely affordable compared to other parts of the country. Most OAPs who use the freedom pass are on fixed incomes, they have no means to earn more but guess what the parents who sit down and watch tv for 8 hours every night could if they truly wanted too or perhaps they could give up their luxury tv packages or expensive holidays or maybe, oh I dunno, live within their means. People need to take responsibility for themselves and their own without the government needing to pay for everything, scores of generations before us were able too so why not us? I think you need to realise that schools have league tables and the ones higher up tend to be better at putting students into good Unis which will enable a student to develop. Should a child not go to a good school that matches their ability they miss out on a lot. There's also the case where many parents spend their children to faith schools and they have every right to want this. Just like OAPs parents are on a fixed income, even more so as parents need to spread this income across a whole family while OAPs get the allowance to themselves. What's wrong with a parent wanting to watch TV at night? Can you really not bare to help out the poorer people in the community by having TfL pay for fares? Is it really that hard? If OAPs can get free passes then children have every single right to, I keep saying Children have no income of their own apart from £20 of Child benefit, that is barely going to cover any travel cost. OAPs have an income, they get money to live on however a child does not. If OAPs get free travel and money to go with it all then what exactly is wrong with children getting free travel? Children are vulnerable in the community too and deserve to go places. Scores of generations before us could pay for buses yes that true. However, Currently a remote Island in the Indian Ocean does not have Internet and currently hunts with spears and swords and they don't even know how to make fire. They don't have internet or fire so do we say that we should have those benefits removed from us? Well they can live without it so surely we can too? I understand schools have league tables but acting like kids from a poorer background can’t work hard and achieve is ridiculous. If they want a better future they will work hard regardless of their education. I have cousins who have gone to the best schools and still live in their parents houses with little career prospects and friends who have worked hard. It all depends on the person and their work ethic, it’s not just about league tables. If you expect your children to succeed because you send them to an expensive school you are naive, if they don’t want to work it won’t matter if you spend thousands or nothing. You clearly don’t understand what a fixed income means but parents are not on them. What exactly have children done to deserve free travel? They don’t contribute to the economy whereas the average OAP has contributed 40+ years to it. I advocate for responsible affordable fares for every under 18 across the country but free fares are just fiscally irresponsible in the financial climate and I don’t see them coming back for many years. There is nothing wrong with watching tv at night, however I am tired of people pleading poverty whilst owning 60 inch TVs with £100 a month sky package, Netflix, amazon prime, Disney+ all whilst playing on brand new phones and iPads, it’s complete bs. I’ve grown up in a poor family and whilst we had a telewest package we went without flashy gifts at birthdays or Christmas, holidays or expensive trips out all so my parents could support us and do you know what it made me appreciate everything I have now. Children today act so entitled because they expect everything without true understanding of the sacrifice that comes with it. I’d even go as far as to say free travel has ruined an entire generation of children and teenagers. As the saying goes charity begins at home and if those poorer people can’t be bothered to help themselves why should I give to jots about them. Your tangent about an island means nothing because it is completely nonsensical, they can’t miss what they don’t have. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 5, 2020 23:44:02 GMT
I think you need to realise that schools have league tables and the ones higher up tend to be better at putting students into good Unis which will enable a student to develop. Should a child not go to a good school that matches their ability they miss out on a lot. There's also the case where many parents spend their children to faith schools and they have every right to want this. Just like OAPs parents are on a fixed income, even more so as parents need to spread this income across a whole family while OAPs get the allowance to themselves. What's wrong with a parent wanting to watch TV at night? Can you really not bare to help out the poorer people in the community by having TfL pay for fares? Is it really that hard? If OAPs can get free passes then children have every single right to, I keep saying Children have no income of their own apart from £20 of Child benefit, that is barely going to cover any travel cost. OAPs have an income, they get money to live on however a child does not. If OAPs get free travel and money to go with it all then what exactly is wrong with children getting free travel? Children are vulnerable in the community too and deserve to go places. Scores of generations before us could pay for buses yes that true. However, Currently a remote Island in the Indian Ocean does not have Internet and currently hunts with spears and swords and they don't even know how to make fire. They don't have internet or fire so do we say that we should have those benefits removed from us? Well they can live without it so surely we can too? I understand schools have league tables but acting like kids from a poorer background can’t work hard and achieve is ridiculous. If they want a better future they will work hard regardless of their education. I have cousins who have gone to the best schools and still live in their parents houses with little career prospects and friends who have worked hard. It all depends on the person and their work ethic, it’s not just about league tables. If you expect your children to succeed because you send them to an expensive school you are naive, if they don’t want to work it won’t matter if you spend thousands or nothing. You clearly don’t understand what a fixed income means but parents are not on them. What exactly have children done to deserve free travel? They don’t contribute to the economy whereas the average OAP has contributed 40+ years to it. I advocate for responsible affordable fares for every under 18 across the country but free fares are just fiscally irresponsible in the financial climate and I don’t see them coming back for many years. There is nothing wrong with watching tv at night, however I am tired of people pleading poverty whilst owning 60 inch TVs with £100 a month sky package, Netflix, amazon prime, Disney+ all whilst playing on brand new phones and iPads, it’s complete bs. I’ve grown up in a poor family and whilst we had a telewest package we went without flashy gifts at birthdays or Christmas, holidays or expensive trips out all so my parents could support us and do you know what it made me appreciate everything I have now. Children today act so entitled because they expect everything without true understanding of the sacrifice that comes with it. I’d even go as far as to say free travel has ruined an entire generation of children and teenagers. As the saying goes charity begins at home and if those poorer people can’t be bothered to help themselves why should I give to jots about them. Your tangent about an island means nothing because it is completely nonsensical, they can’t miss what they don’t have. IF schools near the top of league tables aren't as good as they're made out then why are league tables even publicised? Why do students naturally go to better Unis following education there? Why do these students then at the better Uni often make the better discoveries? An OAP has contributed 40+ years, and most children will contribute too once they've finished education won't they? When everyone who is currently middle aged is old and grey it'll be this generation that everyone is attacking for free travel will be bring the economy up and working to look after them. I've not seen many people with 60 inch TVs and pleading poverty. I've also not seen any children act entitled, most uproar about removing free travel has actually come from parents and those actually paying the fares as opposed to the children themselves. Where exactly do you claim that people who are already struggling to manage get the cash for bus fares from? If you provide a solution that works in the climate where many parents have been made redundant and are extremely unlikely to get a job for at least the next 6 months then I might agree with you. Every single person has a different lifestyle and you do not know the sacrifices they are already making to save money, they do not need yet another hardship placed on them. My point about the island is, how would you react if the people on the island started screaming that you needed your internet services removed because they don't have them? |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 6, 2020 1:48:34 GMT
I think you need to realise that schools have league tables and the ones higher up tend to be better at putting students into good Unis which will enable a student to develop. Should a child not go to a good school that matches their ability they miss out on a lot. There's also the case where many parents spend their children to faith schools and they have every right to want this. Just like OAPs parents are on a fixed income, even more so as parents need to spread this income across a whole family while OAPs get the allowance to themselves. What's wrong with a parent wanting to watch TV at night? Can you really not bare to help out the poorer people in the community by having TfL pay for fares? Is it really that hard? If OAPs can get free passes then children have every single right to, I keep saying Children have no income of their own apart from £20 of Child benefit, that is barely going to cover any travel cost. OAPs have an income, they get money to live on however a child does not. If OAPs get free travel and money to go with it all then what exactly is wrong with children getting free travel? Children are vulnerable in the community too and deserve to go places. Scores of generations before us could pay for buses yes that true. However, Currently a remote Island in the Indian Ocean does not have Internet and currently hunts with spears and swords and they don't even know how to make fire. They don't have internet or fire so do we say that we should have those benefits removed from us? Well they can live without it so surely we can too? I understand schools have league tables but acting like kids from a poorer background can’t work hard and achieve is ridiculous. If they want a better future they will work hard regardless of their education. I have cousins who have gone to the best schools and still live in their parents houses with little career prospects and friends who have worked hard. It all depends on the person and their work ethic, it’s not just about league tables. If you expect your children to succeed because you send them to an expensive school you are naive, if they don’t want to work it won’t matter if you spend thousands or nothing. There is nothing wrong with watching tv at night, however I am tired of people pleading poverty whilst owning 60 inch TVs with £100 a month sky package, Netflix, amazon prime, Disney+ all whilst playing on brand new phones and iPads, it’s complete bs. I’ve grown up in a poor family and whilst we had a telewest package we went without flashy gifts at birthdays or Christmas, holidays or expensive trips out all so my parents could support us and do you know what it made me appreciate everything I have now. Children today act so entitled because they expect everything without true understanding of the sacrifice that comes with it. I’d even go as far as to say free travel has ruined an entire generation of children and teenagers. As the saying goes charity begins at home and if those poorer people can’t be bothered to help themselves why should I give to jots about them. Your are assuming that people are actually paying for those things you listed or paying full whack - most people I know use their friends log in for things like Amazon Prime, Disney+, Netflix. As for the TV's & new iPhones, again many people I know are on ridiculously cheap deals for contracts or know people who got this stuff knocked down - I don't have the same patience or contacts but hey, good luck to them. I also grew up in a poor family - Lambeth were full of us during the 90's after all. I went without certain things but I'm still very grateful for that bus pass the council gave me once they stopped haggling over certain things and again for the free travel Zip card when at college. If that's ruined me despite the fact I know the true understanding of sacrifice, well then so be it. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 6, 2020 6:35:07 GMT
I understand schools have league tables but acting like kids from a poorer background can’t work hard and achieve is ridiculous. If they want a better future they will work hard regardless of their education. I have cousins who have gone to the best schools and still live in their parents houses with little career prospects and friends who have worked hard. It all depends on the person and their work ethic, it’s not just about league tables. If you expect your children to succeed because you send them to an expensive school you are naive, if they don’t want to work it won’t matter if you spend thousands or nothing. You clearly don’t understand what a fixed income means but parents are not on them. What exactly have children done to deserve free travel? They don’t contribute to the economy whereas the average OAP has contributed 40+ years to it. I advocate for responsible affordable fares for every under 18 across the country but free fares are just fiscally irresponsible in the financial climate and I don’t see them coming back for many years. There is nothing wrong with watching tv at night, however I am tired of people pleading poverty whilst owning 60 inch TVs with £100 a month sky package, Netflix, amazon prime, Disney+ all whilst playing on brand new phones and iPads, it’s complete bs. I’ve grown up in a poor family and whilst we had a telewest package we went without flashy gifts at birthdays or Christmas, holidays or expensive trips out all so my parents could support us and do you know what it made me appreciate everything I have now. Children today act so entitled because they expect everything without true understanding of the sacrifice that comes with it. I’d even go as far as to say free travel has ruined an entire generation of children and teenagers. As the saying goes charity begins at home and if those poorer people can’t be bothered to help themselves why should I give to jots about them. Your tangent about an island means nothing because it is completely nonsensical, they can’t miss what they don’t have. IF schools near the top of league tables aren't as good as they're made out then why are league tables even publicised? Why do students naturally go to better Unis following education there? Why do these students then at the better Uni often make the better discoveries? An OAP has contributed 40+ years, and most children will contribute too once they've finished education won't they? When everyone who is currently middle aged is old and grey it'll be this generation that everyone is attacking for free travel will be bring the economy up and working to look after them. I've not seen many people with 60 inch TVs and pleading poverty. I've also not seen any children act entitled, most uproar about removing free travel has actually come from parents and those actually paying the fares as opposed to the children themselves. Where exactly do you claim that people who are already struggling to manage get the cash for bus fares from? If you provide a solution that works in the climate where many parents have been made redundant and are extremely unlikely to get a job for at least the next 6 months then I might agree with you. Every single person has a different lifestyle and you do not know the sacrifices they are already making to save money, they do not need yet another hardship placed on them. My point about the island is, how would you react if the people on the island started screaming that you needed your internet services removed because they don't have them? I've seen many people in poverty who have tried to catch up with the times. If your remember roughly 15 years ago there was a TV show called Spendaholics, these parents weren't necessarily in poverty but they spent a s tonne of money on non essential things when they were themselves living on wages that could not afford them. This is another reason why things such as social media have completly ruined some things, people feel they need to keep up with the times and show off. There was this one woman on that show who had 45k in debt!! People in London have to realise that 40% of journeys done by bus are not paid for by 18-59 year olds and are instead free. London buses could do with fares, not high but about 15-20p for children. Going back to my point about extreme spending, things like keeping up with the times are the reason why children in the last 8-10 years have become that bit more "wanting" whether it be the newest phone or something else I don't know but social media has also made things like the gang lifestyle desirable to many, which is why middle class people are now getting involved, though this is certainly a topic not for discussion. |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 6, 2020 6:47:49 GMT
I think you need to realise that schools have league tables and the ones higher up tend to be better at putting students into good Unis which will enable a student to develop. Should a child not go to a good school that matches their ability they miss out on a lot. There's also the case where many parents spend their children to faith schools and they have every right to want this. Just like OAPs parents are on a fixed income, even more so as parents need to spread this income across a whole family while OAPs get the allowance to themselves. What's wrong with a parent wanting to watch TV at night? Can you really not bare to help out the poorer people in the community by having TfL pay for fares? Is it really that hard? If OAPs can get free passes then children have every single right to, I keep saying Children have no income of their own apart from £20 of Child benefit, that is barely going to cover any travel cost. OAPs have an income, they get money to live on however a child does not. If OAPs get free travel and money to go with it all then what exactly is wrong with children getting free travel? Children are vulnerable in the community too and deserve to go places. Scores of generations before us could pay for buses yes that true. However, Currently a remote Island in the Indian Ocean does not have Internet and currently hunts with spears and swords and they don't even know how to make fire. They don't have internet or fire so do we say that we should have those benefits removed from us? Well they can live without it so surely we can too? I understand schools have league tables but acting like kids from a poorer background can’t work hard and achieve is ridiculous. If they want a better future they will work hard regardless of their education. I have cousins who have gone to the best schools and still live in their parents houses with little career prospects and friends who have worked hard. It all depends on the person and their work ethic, it’s not just about league tables. If you expect your children to succeed because you send them to an expensive school you are naive, if they don’t want to work it won’t matter if you spend thousands or nothing. You clearly don’t understand what a fixed income means but parents are not on them. What exactly have children done to deserve free travel? They don’t contribute to the economy whereas the average OAP has contributed 40+ years to it. I advocate for responsible affordable fares for every under 18 across the country but free fares are just fiscally irresponsible in the financial climate and I don’t see them coming back for many years. There is nothing wrong with watching tv at night, however I am tired of people pleading poverty whilst owning 60 inch TVs with £100 a month sky package, Netflix, amazon prime, Disney+ all whilst playing on brand new phones and iPads, it’s complete bs. I’ve grown up in a poor family and whilst we had a telewest package we went without flashy gifts at birthdays or Christmas, holidays or expensive trips out all so my parents could support us and do you know what it made me appreciate everything I have now. Children today act so entitled because they expect everything without true understanding of the sacrifice that comes with it. I’d even go as far as to say free travel has ruined an entire generation of children and teenagers. As the saying goes charity begins at home and if those poorer people can’t be bothered to help themselves why should I give to jots about them. Your tangent about an island means nothing because it is completely nonsensical, they can’t miss what they don’t have. Modern society expectations so succinctly put! Top post. |
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