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Post by greenboy on Sept 18, 2024 12:43:47 GMT
Today it’s 36603 and 36607 on there! But Yh, the double decker 165’s are literally packed during rush hour! Idk how these single deckers would have coped! Plenty of SD routes (including the 165) are regularly overcrowded, and have no restrictions on using DDs. But it's up to TFL, not the operators, to specify DDs when retendered. Of course the 165 is currently up for tender, so it is possible DDs could be used for the next contract, but other busy routes like the 355 have been retendered with SDs again. The 165 will probably be retendered with single deckers. From my ad hoc observations the 165 seems fine with single deckers and I've not seen any complaints elsewhere about any overcrowding on the route.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 18, 2024 13:38:01 GMT
But it seems they did. If the overcrowding was that bad then I am surprised local media never picked up on this as they love stories like that. As I said yesterday had the 310 not been won the 165 would be using its existing buses today. We are aware of this, notably we are bringing attention to the fact the 165 has literally boomed with passengers even more since decker conversion! There have actually been appeals over the years including MPs getting involved with complaints that the 165 simply does not cope with single deckers, those like myself that use the route regularly continue to hope that the route will be decked for good. It’s all well and good saying if the 310 wasn’t decked it would remain SD however what’s come from the conversion is more passengers using the 165 filling both decks, people not being left behind at stops. Everyone is aware of the reason it got the allocation it did, this isn’t news to us. Only advice is I can give is keep badgering TfL and local councillors/MP's and hope for the best.
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Post by adl on Sept 18, 2024 13:40:38 GMT
We are aware of this, notably we are bringing attention to the fact the 165 has literally boomed with passengers even more since decker conversion! There have actually been appeals over the years including MPs getting involved with complaints that the 165 simply does not cope with single deckers, those like myself that use the route regularly continue to hope that the route will be decked for good. It’s all well and good saying if the 310 wasn’t decked it would remain SD however what’s come from the conversion is more passengers using the 165 filling both decks, people not being left behind at stops. Everyone is aware of the reason it got the allocation it did, this isn’t news to us. Only advice is I can give is keep badgering TfL and local councillors/MP's and hope for the best. Despite others saying it’s no use, I do keep writing emails as regardless of what a couple of others may say, the 165 is a busy route and the extra capacity a double decker brings is needed on route as others have said even outside of school time. Hopefully next tender will see its official permanent conversion.
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Post by WH241 on Sept 18, 2024 13:44:59 GMT
Only advice is I can give is keep badgering TfL and local councillors/MP's and hope for the best. Despite others saying it’s no use, I do keep writing emails as regardless of what a couple of others may say, the 165 is a busy route and the extra capacity a double decker brings is needed on route as others have said even outside of school time. Hopefully next tender will see its official permanent conversion. Busy or over capacity? There was is a difference. We would all of course like a nice empty bus but it reality buses should be running busy. I am sure some trips on the 165 are busy but imagine outside of the peaks and at weekends it’s fine. TfL are not daft and will know the loadings.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 18, 2024 13:45:36 GMT
Only advice is I can give is keep badgering TfL and local councillors/MP's and hope for the best. Despite others saying it’s no use, I do keep writing emails as regardless of what a couple of others may say, the 165 is a busy route and the extra capacity a double decker brings is needed on route as others have said even outside of school time. Hopefully next tender will see its official permanent conversion. I can't sit here and say you'll be successful but it's better than nothing. At the end of the day, you live on the route so I'm more than happy to go with what your saying - maybe something else you could do is collect a record of trips and workings, take pictures as well that you could then put with your correspondence which might help build up a picture. Ironically, I do have a trip planned to do a double decker on the 165, hopefully next Tuesday but it will be outside of the peaks so be interesting to see how busy my experience of it is and tally it up with past experiences I've had where the route was busy when I used it.
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Post by LK65EBO on Sept 18, 2024 13:54:48 GMT
Plenty of SD routes (including the 165) are regularly overcrowded, and have no restrictions on using DDs. But it's up to TFL, not the operators, to specify DDs when retendered. Of course the 165 is currently up for tender, so it is possible DDs could be used for the next contract, but other busy routes like the 355 have been retendered with SDs again. The 165 will probably be retendered with single deckers. From my ad hoc observations the 165 seems fine with single deckers and I've not seen any complaints elsewhere about any overcrowding on the route. I think there are quite a few routes ahead of the 165 which need to be converted to DD. For example, the 316 or 195.
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Post by adl on Sept 18, 2024 14:07:05 GMT
The 165 will probably be retendered with single deckers. From my ad hoc observations the 165 seems fine with single deckers and I've not seen any complaints elsewhere about any overcrowding on the route. I think there are quite a few routes ahead of the 165 which need to be converted to DD. For example, the 316 or 195. I don’t think whether the 165 is decked or not has any impact on the 316 or 195, I can’t comment on either as I don’t regularly use the routes but I can talk for the 165 and I think it should keep its allocation in f double deckers. I don’t think there’s a check box list whether which routes convert first.
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Post by mkay315 on Sept 18, 2024 14:58:42 GMT
I think there are quite a few routes ahead of the 165 which need to be converted to DD. For example, the 316 or 195. I don’t think whether the 165 is decked or not has any impact on the 316 or 195, I can’t comment on either as I don’t regularly use the routes but I can talk for the 165 and I think it should keep its allocation in f double deckers. I don’t think there’s a check box list whether which routes convert first. What you need to do is speak to someone from your constituency about this situation. An example I can think of from memory was the 78 when Val Shawcross was campaigning for the route to be a double decker. She was doing this since the late 2000s and by 2011 it was done. So you might be in this for the long run my friend. Get the right people making the noise and things will move.
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Post by abellion on Sept 18, 2024 15:02:51 GMT
I don’t think whether the 165 is decked or not has any impact on the 316 or 195, I can’t comment on either as I don’t regularly use the routes but I can talk for the 165 and I think it should keep its allocation in f double deckers. I don’t think there’s a check box list whether which routes convert first. What you need to do is speak to someone from your constituency about this situation. An example I can think of from memory was the 78 when Val Shawcross was campaigning for the route to be a double decker. She was doing this since the late 2000s and by 2011 it was done. So you might be in this for the long run my friend. Get the right people making the noise and things will move. And IIRC something similar happened with the 343 which led to the 136 being extended to Elephant & Castle. I can’t imagine how frustrating and even deterring it must be for passengers when the SDs are constantly leaving them behind despite zero physical restriction on the route.
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Post by adl on Sept 18, 2024 15:41:49 GMT
I don’t think whether the 165 is decked or not has any impact on the 316 or 195, I can’t comment on either as I don’t regularly use the routes but I can talk for the 165 and I think it should keep its allocation in f double deckers. I don’t think there’s a check box list whether which routes convert first. What you need to do is speak to someone from your constituency about this situation. An example I can think of from memory was the 78 when Val Shawcross was campaigning for the route to be a double decker. She was doing this since the late 2000s and by 2011 it was done. So you might be in this for the long run my friend. Get the right people making the noise and things will move. Potentially but it has had attention raised to it in the past in 2011 and 2015, where MPs were involved, emails to TFL by myself have come back with the fact TFL are looking into options and al the complaints have been noted by Network Development Team, I’m hoping the fact it’s now got deckers may help it get its foot in the door so to speak as TFL will see increased numbers. If the tender result is released with single decks I shall take my complaint further to MPs and make a big fuss about it with the help of others who feel the same way. I know people on here may find me silly for doing it but quite simply at times the 165 can be unsafe with single deckers especially in the event of an emergency stop with passengers filled to the door, it becomes unsafe.
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 18, 2024 15:57:50 GMT
What you need to do is speak to someone from your constituency about this situation. An example I can think of from memory was the 78 when Val Shawcross was campaigning for the route to be a double decker. She was doing this since the late 2000s and by 2011 it was done. So you might be in this for the long run my friend. Get the right people making the noise and things will move. Potentially but it has had attention raised to it in the past in 2011 and 2015, where MPs were involved, emails to TFL by myself have come back with the fact TFL are looking into options and al the complaints have been noted by Network Development Team, I’m hoping the fact it’s now got deckers may help it get its foot in the door so to speak as TFL will see increased numbers. If the tender result is released with single decks I shall take my complaint further to MPs and make a big fuss about it with the help of others who feel the same way. I know people on here may find me silly for doing it but quite simply at times the 165 can be unsafe with single deckers especially in the event of an emergency stop with passengers filled to the door, it becomes unsafe. Looking into options is just customer service speak for “we know and we don’t care”. I use this line everyday when I fob off someone female doging about something. My favourite line is “we will have a solution soon” whilst knowing full well it’s been like 3 years of moaning customers and no resolution in site.
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Post by yunus on Sept 18, 2024 15:59:28 GMT
I yunus was at St James Street earlier this afternoon intending to ride the 275. When arrived I checked on LVF all 5 buses in a row were Hybrids (mix of old bodied, MMC & City). Seems to me the route is a potential candidate for a conversion to Hybrid once the 257 converts to EV. It could use the 7 MMCs and the top up could come from PVR cuts or other garages. What do you all think? I am tryna stay positive.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 18, 2024 16:03:25 GMT
I yunus was at St James Street earlier this afternoon intending to ride the 275. When arrived I checked on LVF all 5 buses in a row were Hybrids (mix of old bodied, MMC & City). Seems to me the route is a potential candidate for a conversion to Hybrid once the 257 converts to EV. It could use the 7 MMCs and the top up could come from PVR cuts or other garages. What do you all think? I am tryna stay positive. I don't think you can use this to draw a conclusion on anything - just seems like T is doing what most garages do and mixing allocations for the daily run out.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 18, 2024 16:06:52 GMT
What you need to do is speak to someone from your constituency about this situation. An example I can think of from memory was the 78 when Val Shawcross was campaigning for the route to be a double decker. She was doing this since the late 2000s and by 2011 it was done. So you might be in this for the long run my friend. Get the right people making the noise and things will move. Potentially but it has had attention raised to it in the past in 2011 and 2015, where MPs were involved, emails to TFL by myself have come back with the fact TFL are looking into options and al the complaints have been noted by Network Development Team, I’m hoping the fact it’s now got deckers may help it get its foot in the door so to speak as TFL will see increased numbers. If the tender result is released with single decks I shall take my complaint further to MPs and make a big fuss about it with the help of others who feel the same way. I know people on here may find me silly for doing it but quite simply at times the 165 can be unsafe with single deckers especially in the event of an emergency stop with passengers filled to the door, it becomes unsafe. Those replies are almost always just stock replies - I've had that in the past when I've emailed TfL and as southlondon413 mentions, a lot of companies do that. I don't think it's silly - if you feel strongly about it, your more than within your rights to complain about it. Do what you feel is right at the end of the day.
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Post by yunus on Sept 18, 2024 16:07:22 GMT
I yunus was at St James Street earlier this afternoon intending to ride the 275. When arrived I checked on LVF all 5 buses in a row were Hybrids (mix of old bodied, MMC & City). Seems to me the route is a potential candidate for a conversion to Hybrid once the 257 converts to EV. It could use the 7 MMCs and the top up could come from PVR cuts or other garages. What do you all think? I am tryna stay positive. I don't think you can use this to draw a conclusion on anything - just seems like T is doing what most garages do and mixing allocations for the daily run out. Ofc it is pure speculation on my part but I can defo see my predictions happen. The E40Ds could be cascaded elsewhere within the provincial fleet. I am aware that the 257 requires less buses atm however even before it was curtailed there has been days when the 275s ratio was higher with Hybrids.
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