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Post by sdaniel on Sept 30, 2024 1:49:37 GMT
Yeah but I would send the 310 to new places that doesn’t have direct bus links or even train links instead of jumping to conclusions by withdrawing it and single decking the 210 which everyone is against. Anyway by the end of next month, they should have a rough idea of what they should do with 310 instead of waiting until the end of the trial. They would have gotten enough responses by then. The 210 should stay the current route and the 310 should be rerouted between Stroud Green Road and Manor House via Upper Tollington Park, Endymion Road, Green Lanes and back to Woodberry Grove. I think this is the best way at least. Exactly. Also serving Crouch Hill, Crouch End, Highgate Station and Henley’s Corner instead of Archway and Highgate Village. |
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Post by sdaniel on Sept 30, 2024 1:51:45 GMT
Some changes in North West London: 88: Withdrawn between Camden Town and Parliament Hill Fields. Stand restored at Camden Gardens. 214: Withdrawn between Parliament Hill Fields and Highgate Village. Converted to double deck. 414: New bus route between Highgate Village and Hyde Park Corner, Achilles Way running via Highgate West Hill, Parliament Hill Fields, Lady Somerset Road, Kentish Town Station, Prince of Wales Road, Camden Gardens (southbound) / Camden High Street (northbound), Mornington Crescent Station, Hampstead Road, Gower Street, Charing Cross Road / Seven Dials, Leicester Square Station, Trafalgar Square, S’t James, Pall Mall, Green Park Station, Constitution Hill and Hyde Park Corner standing on Achilles Way. (Single deck, every 10-12 min during the day and 15 min during evenings and Sundays) Improving reliability on routes 88 and 214, as well as allowing double deck services on much needed 214. New 414 is a route I thought would be useful around my local area while improving other routes, currently Gower Street, Seven Dials have no bus services and would pick up some credible demand IMO, especially from tourists, shoppers and university students and would be quicker than the other routes that go via TCR or Piccadilly etc. I wish they did major road works to Highgate West Hill so that the narrow turn cannot affect double decker buses. Nevertheless if you were to make those changes, I would merge 135 and 214 running from Canary Wharf to Parliament Hill Fields. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 30, 2024 2:09:25 GMT
Some changes in North West London: 88: Withdrawn between Camden Town and Parliament Hill Fields. Stand restored at Camden Gardens. 214: Withdrawn between Parliament Hill Fields and Highgate Village. Converted to double deck. 414: New bus route between Highgate Village and Hyde Park Corner, Achilles Way running via Highgate West Hill, Parliament Hill Fields, Lady Somerset Road, Kentish Town Station, Prince of Wales Road, Camden Gardens (southbound) / Camden High Street (northbound), Mornington Crescent Station, Hampstead Road, Gower Street, Charing Cross Road / Seven Dials, Leicester Square Station, Trafalgar Square, S’t James, Pall Mall, Green Park Station, Constitution Hill and Hyde Park Corner standing on Achilles Way. (Single deck, every 10-12 min during the day and 15 min during evenings and Sundays) Improving reliability on routes 88 and 214, as well as allowing double deck services on much needed 214. New 414 is a route I thought would be useful around my local area while improving other routes, currently Gower Street, Seven Dials have no bus services and would pick up some credible demand IMO, especially from tourists, shoppers and university students and would be quicker than the other routes that go via TCR or Piccadilly etc. I wish they did major road works to Highgate West Hill so that the narrow turn cannot affect double decker buses. Nevertheless if you were to make those changes, I would merge 135 and 214 running from Canary Wharf to Parliament Hill Fields. I think your seriously underestimating how important running times are and how they ideally should be kept within 60-90 min depending on conditions of a given corridor(s). The 135 on it's own takes 74 minutes max running time whilst the current 214 is 64 minutes max - knock off say 5-10 minutes for the removal of the Finsbury Square to Old Street section and that totals well over 100 minutes which is absolutely insane nowadays. Then you've got different frequencies as well - the 214 is every 7-8 minutes whilst the 135 is every 10 minutes so are you dropping the 214 frequency or are you boosting the 135 (and potentially causing a headache at Crossharbour, ASDA) |
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djs76
Conductor
Posts: 109
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Post by djs76 on Sept 30, 2024 5:58:42 GMT
I'll be starting with a few route ideas around Enfield (and probably not anything too far outside, otherwise we could end up with a 123 proposal to Southend or something), and it would be great to see everyone's thoughts on them. To begin with is new route 391: Route 391: New route from Edmonton Green to Cockfosters, via: Hertford Road, Ponders End Station, Alma Road, Brimsdown Station, Bell Lane, Hertford Road, Turkey Street Station, Turkey Street (bus-only loops with traffic lights installed either side of Turkey Street on Great Cambridge Road and bus gate installed on bridge on Turkey Street), Forty Hill (bus gate installed on roundabout to allow direct access from Forty Hill to Baker Street), Baker Street, Lavender Hill, Gordon Hill Station, Chase Farm Hospital, The Ridgeway, Enfield Road, Oakwood Station and Westpole Avenue. I thought it would be good to start off with this one, as it (hopefully) creates some cross-borough links and serves a lot of roads not currently served. It also provides a link from Chase Farm Hospital to the Piccadilly Line that (apparently) some people want. Nevertheless, I think the route could generate some good demand, but let me know if I've been completely wrong and this route is a terrible idea. This route would run every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and every 30 Sundays and late evenings. It would likely use >10m single-deck buses, due to length restrictions at Forty Hill. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Route OverviewYou seem to be suggesting that the central reservation on the A10 is removed at the Turkey Street junction. Currently you can only turn left into and out of Turkey Street due to the large dual carriageway in the way. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Sept 30, 2024 13:00:06 GMT
I'll be starting with a few route ideas around Enfield (and probably not anything too far outside, otherwise we could end up with a 123 proposal to Southend or something), and it would be great to see everyone's thoughts on them. To begin with is new route 391: Route 391: New route from Edmonton Green to Cockfosters, via: Hertford Road, Ponders End Station, Alma Road, Brimsdown Station, Bell Lane, Hertford Road, Turkey Street Station, Turkey Street (bus-only loops with traffic lights installed either side of Turkey Street on Great Cambridge Road and bus gate installed on bridge on Turkey Street), Forty Hill (bus gate installed on roundabout to allow direct access from Forty Hill to Baker Street), Baker Street, Lavender Hill, Gordon Hill Station, Chase Farm Hospital, The Ridgeway, Enfield Road, Oakwood Station and Westpole Avenue. I thought it would be good to start off with this one, as it (hopefully) creates some cross-borough links and serves a lot of roads not currently served. It also provides a link from Chase Farm Hospital to the Piccadilly Line that (apparently) some people want. Nevertheless, I think the route could generate some good demand, but let me know if I've been completely wrong and this route is a terrible idea. This route would run every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and every 30 Sundays and late evenings. It would likely use >10m single-deck buses, due to length restrictions at Forty Hill. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Route OverviewI enjoyed reading your proposals, though I'd like to provide some fair feedback if that's possible. 1. I can myself as well certainly see a direct link between Edmonton Green and Brimsdown being useful. Though I'll be concerned at the same time routing a single deck route onto Hertford Road towards Pounders End. The 279 and the 349 combined both already get busy and often left at capacity during the peak hours, so any single deck route if a gap or disruption either occurs on the 279 or the 349 will be bound for the single deck route to be squashed. I do agree the 491 isn't the best route towards Brimsdown, though a capacity increase on it will do for the time being. It still shocks me on how TfL even permitted it's reduction to once every 20 minutes from earlier proposals to up it to every 12 minutes back in the days. I do have an idea on how a possible direct Brimsdown to Edmonton Green link can be achieved without routing via Hertford Road, though I'll save the idea post for another time. 2. If any link I can see if the 327 were to ever survive would be restructuring the route south to Brimsdown. As of today, there isn't really of a demand to send another bus route down Brimsdown Avenue and Bell Lane being the 191 already provides enough capacity on the corridor for the time being. The only time where I'll look at sending additional services can be considered if either upgrades to services on the West Anglia Main Line takes place or the implementation for Crossrail 2, both options are unlikely to happen for the time being if not ever, Crossrail 2 in particular. 3. As another person on here mentioned, there are restricted boundaries from trying to cross onto Forty Hill from Turkey Street. Being realistic, it's hard to justify if there's any need for a bus service serving such a remote location. You could route the service via the A10 before reaching Carterhatch Lane, though even again a turn from Turkey Street into the A10 is one way so you may need to adjust some complex routing within. 4. A link between the North East of Enfield and Chase Farm has been suggested on and off on here. Most journeys currently can be done via a hopper fare interchange at Baker Street from the 191 And onto the W8. With this, it's alot harder to justify another service linking directly, though TfL introducing the 310 says otherwise. 5. I always liked the idea to link Chase Farm Hospital towards Oakwood and Cockfosters something I can see being useful and has suggested it in the past, though I'll again think a routing via Uplands Park Road will be more beneficial from the direct routing. If only TfL didn't restructure the 384 bus route the route would be a more ideal choice to extend to Chase Farm. |
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Post by mrhk on Sept 30, 2024 19:17:39 GMT
Superloop/Express route ideas:
New route SL(18) - Harrow Bus Station to Maida Hill, The Chippenham via route 182 to Sudbury, Harrow Road, route 18 to Elgin Avenue and route 228 to The Chippenham. This will allow the 18 to be supported whilst also retaining its complete route from Euston to Sudbury and also support the busy 182 up to Harrow.
Stopping at Harrow Bus Station, Northwick Park Hospital, Sudbury and Harrow Road Station, Wembley Central, Wembley Triangle (for Wembley Stadium, Stonebridge Park Station/Point Place, Harlesden Town Centre, Willesden Junction and Kensal Green before terminating at Maida Hill.
SL9 - Extended from Harrow Bus Station to Harrow Weald to allow users a much faster alternative to Harrow Weald and will reconnect Harrow Weald to Heathrow whilst supporting the 140. This would also free up stand space at Harrow for the SL(18).
Stopping at Harrow and Wealdstone and Harrow Weald Bus Garage.
SL(95) - Ruislip Station to Notting Hill Gate via route E7 to Greenford Broadway, 95 to Shepherd's Bush and route 94 to Notting Hill Gate. This will relieve some of the loads on the Central Line and allow local users a cheaper and quicker alternative than the Oxford Tube.
Stopping at Ruislip Gardens, Station Approach/South Ruislip Station, Yeading White Hart (for Northolt), Greenford Broadway (for Greenford Station), South Greenford Station, Teignmouth Gardens (for Perivale), Hanger Lane, Park Royal, North Acton (southbound) and Acton Main Lane (northbound), Savoy Circus (for East Acton), White City Station (for Wood Lane and bus station), Shepherd's Bush Green before running express to Notting Hill Gate.
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Post by greg on Sept 30, 2024 21:27:44 GMT
Some changes in North West London: 88: Withdrawn between Camden Town and Parliament Hill Fields. Stand restored at Camden Gardens. 214: Withdrawn between Parliament Hill Fields and Highgate Village. Converted to double deck. 414: New bus route between Highgate Village and Hyde Park Corner, Achilles Way running via Highgate West Hill, Parliament Hill Fields, Lady Somerset Road, Kentish Town Station, Prince of Wales Road, Camden Gardens (southbound) / Camden High Street (northbound), Mornington Crescent Station, Hampstead Road, Gower Street, Charing Cross Road / Seven Dials, Leicester Square Station, Trafalgar Square, S’t James, Pall Mall, Green Park Station, Constitution Hill and Hyde Park Corner standing on Achilles Way. (Single deck, every 10-12 min during the day and 15 min during evenings and Sundays) Improving reliability on routes 88 and 214, as well as allowing double deck services on much needed 214. New 414 is a route I thought would be useful around my local area while improving other routes, currently Gower Street, Seven Dials have no bus services and would pick up some credible demand IMO, especially from tourists, shoppers and university students and would be quicker than the other routes that go via TCR or Piccadilly etc. Lack of bus stop provision on Gower Street (big issue currently when buses are diverted from TCR) which would need to be sorted. And traffic... By Seven Dials presumably you mean the upper section of Shaftesbury Avenue? If so, it'd just be stuck in traffic! I don't know how competitive it would be because of that, when alternative routes are on traffic-free roads. What is it going to HPC for? It seems like a bit of a dead end there, may as well get it to Imperial College to restore the UCL to Imperial link! My knowledge on roads are not the best but sometimes there are bus stops on lanes - these are mostly on the smaller routes where they wont be stopping for more than like a minute - these could easily be fine on Gower Street. Enough for one bus route and a car could pass through with barely a squeeze. As for our 3 LT and PVR 42 route on TCR, definitely not. Gower Street is also very traffic free IMO - but I hear you about Shafestbury Avenue. I mean the junction with New Oxford Street & St Giles High Street to Cambridge Circus just past the Forbidden Planet and GDK - which can be traffic filled especially southbound but its never anything major observationally. And youre also correct on HPC - I wanted it to serve Pall Mall and S’t James’ to connect Central London with Camden and sorts but dont know where it could go beyond HPC without overbussing. Sending it to South Kensington, I think would become too long, no? South Ken to Highgate Village? |
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Post by Unorm on Oct 1, 2024 12:04:31 GMT
42 Liverpool Street - Denmark Hill - Herne Hill - Brixton.
Rerouted on Denmark Hill via 68 then 3.
See P6 for replacement.
Round-the-corner links, hospital link on Dulwich Road and direct Brixton link along Denmark and Herne Hills, links into Old Kent Road, City Hall and beyond. Frequency increase to every 12.
P6 East Dulwich Sainsbury's - current 42 to Camberwell - Bowyer Place - New Church Road - Wells Way - Albany Road - Old Kent Road Tesco - Dunton Road - Southwark Park Road - St James Road - Jamaica Road - Canada Water - Surrey Quays (every 15).
Some round-the-corner links and unserved section of road used. Initially thought of direct from Camberwell to OKR but expanded scope to link Camberwell with Bermondsey onwards, though I suspect space is difficult at the Canada Water and Surrey Quays end. Unless extending 225 southwest is a viable alternative.
P13 Forest Hill - Underhill Road - current route to Peckham
Cut west of Lordship Lane. See 373 for replacement.
Did think about sending to Dulwich College in a loop working but 373 P4 SLxx might be enough as it is. Which unfortunately means hopper from P13 to 373 for that journey.
373 Streatham - Downton Avenue - Hillside Road - Palace Road - Norwood Road - Robson Road - Park Hall Road - Croxted Road - A205 - Lordship Lane - East Dulwich Road - Peckham Rye - Peckham - Queens Road Peckham - New Cross Gate Sainsbury's
Retains P13's links as a faster service from east of West Dulwich. Could be more effective if it went further east of New Cross Gate.
Diversifies a bit from it's Superloop parallel by going the longer route via West Norwood whilst bringing new links such as Dulwich to Norwood (same constituency, funnily enough) and Norwood to Peckham (I'd personally would've benefited a same-stop 3/P13 interchange before). This also allows use of double decks, avoiding the lower bridge on Thurlow Park Road. Superloop would have to stop at "Christchurch Road/Hillside Road" or it'll be unserved. "Lanercost Road" is not far from the previous stop.
40 and 484 double run East Dulwich Sainsbury's, the few minutes lost in exchange for easier access to Sainsbury's.
Part of it is diversion inspired (35/45/345 use of Herne Hill. N68 use of Palace Road during Norwood Road closure) and part of it self-doom should something be changed after the SL route along the A205 is established while also a half-attempt at making P13 quicker.
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 2, 2024 22:57:00 GMT
Enfield Bus Changes:
Route 121:
Turnpike Lane Station - Brimsdown (withdrawn between Enfield Chase and Enfield Island Village, rerouted via 191’s route towards Brimsdown)
Route 191:
Edmonton Green - Cockfosters (withdrawn between Enfield Town and Brimsdown, rerouted and extended to Cockfosters via 307’s way then 299’s way)
Route 329:
Turnpike Lane - Enfield Island Village (extended to Enfield Island Village via 121’s way from Enfield Town)
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djs76
Conductor
Posts: 109
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Post by djs76 on Oct 3, 2024 6:05:23 GMT
Enfield Bus Changes:
Route 121: Turnpike Lane Station - Brimsdown (withdrawn between Enfield Chase and Enfield Island Village, rerouted via 191’s route towards Brimsdown) Route 191: Edmonton Green - Cockfosters (withdrawn between Enfield Town and Brimsdown, rerouted and extended to Cockfosters via 307’s way then 299’s way) Route 329: Turnpike Lane - Enfield Island Village (extended to Enfield Island Village via 121’s way from Enfield Town) That seems to suggest that the 121 wouldn't serve Enfield Town, turning left just after Enfield Chase station, which wouldn't be a good idea at all. With your 191 suggestion, I doubt there is room for another terminating route at Cockfosters without moving something else out. The 329 idea isn't terrible and something similar has been suggested several times before but I think this would have a terrible effect on the routes reliability. The 'round the corner' link at Enfield Town would definitely be useful though but I don't think this is the solution. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 3, 2024 9:46:37 GMT
Enfield Bus Changes:
Route 121: Turnpike Lane Station - Brimsdown (withdrawn between Enfield Chase and Enfield Island Village, rerouted via 191’s route towards Brimsdown) Route 191: Edmonton Green - Cockfosters (withdrawn between Enfield Town and Brimsdown, rerouted and extended to Cockfosters via 307’s way then 299’s way) Route 329: Turnpike Lane - Enfield Island Village (extended to Enfield Island Village via 121’s way from Enfield Town) That seems to suggest that the 121 wouldn't serve Enfield Town, turning left just after Enfield Chase station, which wouldn't be a good idea at all. With your 191 suggestion, I doubt there is room for another terminating route at Cockfosters without moving something else out. The 329 idea isn't terrible and something similar has been suggested several times before but I think this would have a terrible effect on the routes reliability. The 'round the corner' link at Enfield Town would definitely be useful though but I don't think this is the solution. The initial plan is to split 191’s route into 2 and besides, the 121 is much longer than that proposed 329 extension I’ve just suggested. Concerning your comment about the space at Cockfosters for the 191 extension, if there is not enough space then I would extend the 384 to Oakwood via Westpole Avenue (Hail and Ride Section). |
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djs76
Conductor
Posts: 109
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Post by djs76 on Oct 3, 2024 13:02:19 GMT
That seems to suggest that the 121 wouldn't serve Enfield Town, turning left just after Enfield Chase station, which wouldn't be a good idea at all. With your 191 suggestion, I doubt there is room for another terminating route at Cockfosters without moving something else out. The 329 idea isn't terrible and something similar has been suggested several times before but I think this would have a terrible effect on the routes reliability. The 'round the corner' link at Enfield Town would definitely be useful though but I don't think this is the solution. The initial plan is to split 191’s route into 2 and besides, the 121 is much longer than that proposed 329 extension I’ve just suggested. Concerning your comment about the space at Cockfosters for the 191 extension, if there is not enough space then I would extend the 384 to Oakwood via Westpole Avenue (Hail and Ride Section). I agree that the 191 needs to be split and have posted suggestions on here in the past with my ideas but as I said, diverting the 121 as per your proposal removes that route from Enfield Town which is a huge destination in itself, it also means that the 121 and 191 wouldn't share any bus stops meaning passengers couldn't swap from one to the other. Regarding the 329, its not so much the length of the route as it is currently a reasonably short route but the reliability would be affected so much by the traffic levels through Ponders End and especially the Enfield Lock level crossing, which has long caused issues on the 121 and even the 491. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Oct 3, 2024 15:04:17 GMT
The initial plan is to split 191’s route into 2 and besides, the 121 is much longer than that proposed 329 extension I’ve just suggested. Concerning your comment about the space at Cockfosters for the 191 extension, if there is not enough space then I would extend the 384 to Oakwood via Westpole Avenue (Hail and Ride Section). I agree that the 191 needs to be split and have posted suggestions on here in the past with my ideas but as I said, diverting the 121 as per your proposal removes that route from Enfield Town which is a huge destination in itself, it also means that the 121 and 191 wouldn't share any bus stops meaning passengers couldn't swap from one to the other. Regarding the 329, its not so much the length of the route as it is currently a reasonably short route but the reliability would be affected so much by the traffic levels through Ponders End and especially the Enfield Lock level crossing, which has long caused issues on the 121 and even the 491. Though why does it need to be split? The route not only is performing reliability as it is currently but also provides established links within locally. A user wouldn't use it end to end from Edmonton to Brimsdown, it's catered for short trips as it's designed for and is well used throughout. |
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Post by londonbuses on Oct 3, 2024 15:46:30 GMT
239 Wandsworth to Streatham Station (5bph DD) New route between Wandsworth (Ram Street stand) and Streatham Station, following the 44/270 from Wandsworth to Burntwood Lane, 690 to West Norwood, 196 to Crown Point and 249 to Streatham Station (see map below). Runs at 5bph (plus duplicate journey to replace 690) using double deckers.
Other changes - 485 extended to Southside, 690 withdrawn.
Benefits: > Supports the 44/270 along Garratt Lane, with buses which will likely be less crowded due to not serving Tooting. > Provides a "proper" bus service along Burntwood Lane and Nightingale Lane, with new links to Wandsworth and Brixton. > Restores a daytime service along the 690's line of route, which has not existed for many years. > Relieves the 322, providing a more direct service between West Norwood/Tulse Hill and Clapham Common. > Provides a new "round the corner" link from Streatham Station/Streatham Common to West Norwood and Tulse Hill, avoiding Streatham High Road.
Problems: > Route might be too long/unreliable. > Overbussing between Brixton and West Norwood potentially??? |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2024 16:26:23 GMT
239 Wandsworth to Streatham Station (5bph DD) New route between Wandsworth (Ram Street stand) and Streatham Station, following the 44/270 from Wandsworth to Burntwood Lane, 690 to West Norwood, 196 to Crown Point and 249 to Streatham Station (see map below). Runs at 5bph (plus duplicate journey to replace 690) using double deckers.
Other changes - 485 extended to Southside, 690 withdrawn.
Benefits: > Supports the 44/270 along Garratt Lane, with buses which will likely be less crowded due to not serving Tooting. > Provides a "proper" bus service along Burntwood Lane and Nightingale Lane, with new links to Wandsworth and Brixton. > Restores a daytime service along the 690's line of route, which has not existed for many years. > Relieves the 322, providing a more direct service between West Norwood/Tulse Hill and Clapham Common. > Provides a new "round the corner" link from Streatham Station/Streatham Common to West Norwood and Tulse Hill, avoiding Streatham High Road. Problems: > Route might be too long/unreliable. > Overbussing between Brixton and West Norwood potentially??? Thumbs up from me. I think the 690 is wasted as a school route and I do think a proper West Norwood to Clapham link would be very useful given the 322's routing is less direct and prone to capacity issues. It could tie into a restructure of the 322 south of Herne Hill, running via Rosendale Road to Park Hall Road, then down Robson Road into West Norwood, serve the station and then run onto it's current route via Gipsy Road. This would allow bigger buses for the 322 to be used without issue and the 315 could takeover the hail & ride section rather than running to Norwood Garage & Knights Hill and then take over the 450's time consuming section via Kingswood Drive & Fountain Drive to terminate and stand on the parade with the 3 & 227. The 450 could then run direct between the parade & Westwood Hill. The hail & ride section loses links beyond West Norwood but quite a few people alight here anyway for the high street or to catch the 2 & 432 which are more direct to reach Brixton. |
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