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Post by sdaniel on Oct 7, 2024 9:20:15 GMT
As far as operations go, the 251 should be able to take over the W6's Hail & Ride section, and the only slight problem is at the junction with Northern Avenue / Victoria Road, although that's only when 2 buses are badly placed at the junction. However, the purposes of the W6 and 251 are extremely far away from each other - the W6 mostly provides local links between Edmonton Green and Southgate, whereas the 251 caters for a lot more long-distance, fast links, especially considering the routing it takes. The best thing to probably do would be to convert the 251 to double decks (as I don't think there are any restrictions on the route). I think under the original 491, back when it was originally created, it was originally planned to either go via Winchester Road or the entire length of Victoria Road (but I can't seem to remember which one it was). The W6 definitely has its own purpose, and it'd probably best to keep it as it is, as a short, commuter hopper route. I don't know if it was ever sorted but the 251 is prevented from using deckers due to low trees somewhere between Mill Hill & Totteridge Nah, I think it's fine now. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 7, 2024 9:22:41 GMT
I was thinking that W6 and 251 would be nice if it was to be merged (Edgware - Edmonton Green) if Edmonton Green needed a link within the western london region but because of the Hail & Ride Section between North Middlesex Hospital and Edmonton Green Station, unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible unless another small route like 491 takes over that section instead. As far as operations go, the 251 should be able to take over the W6's Hail & Ride section, and the only slight problem is at the junction with Northern Avenue / Victoria Road, although that's only when 2 buses are badly placed at the junction. However, the purposes of the W6 and 251 are extremely far away from each other - the W6 mostly provides local links between Edmonton Green and Southgate, whereas the 251 caters for a lot more long-distance, fast links, especially considering the routing it takes. The best thing to probably do would be to convert the 251 to double decks (as I don't think there are any restrictions on the route). I think under the original 491, back when it was originally created, it was originally planned to either go via Winchester Road or the entire length of Victoria Road (but I can't seem to remember which one it was). The W6 definitely has its own purpose, and it'd probably best to keep it as it is, as a short, commuter hopper route. Ah, the only reasons I suggested that is because an Arnos Grove to Palmers Green Station & Palmers Green High Road would be useful. Even Palmers Green Station and High Road would be connected to western ends instead of walking down to the North Circular Road. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 7, 2024 9:26:58 GMT
Some restructuring ideas I’ve had: 74: Extended to Camden Town via 274’s LOR. Routing swapped with the 430 between Earls Court & South Kensington. 4: Withdrawn between Angel & Archway, extended to Golders Green via 274 to Camden Town & N5 to Golders Green. (If additional capacity is needed along Highbury Grove): 254: Withdrawn between Finsbury Park & Holloway, extended to Angel Islington via the 4. Could swap termini with the 106 if this routing would make it too long. 310: Rerouted between Finsbury Park & Archway via the 4 to Tufnell Park & Junction Road back to LOR. 134: Rerouted via 4’s LOR to Archway. Provides the Whittington Hospital with more links. I don't know why, but I feel like the 390 should go through the 4's route to Archway from Tufnell Park. I would go ahead with my own suggested proposal about 310 though and I don't mind if you decide to split the 274 into 2 routes but I would leave the 134 and 254 as it is. |
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Post by surab21 on Oct 7, 2024 20:07:36 GMT
I don't know if it was ever sorted but the 251 is prevented from using deckers due to low trees somewhere between Mill Hill & Totteridge Nah, I think it's fine now. It's not - the offending shrubbery is still there on Lawrence Street. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 8, 2024 7:57:38 GMT
Some restructuring ideas I’ve had: 74: Extended to Camden Town via 274’s LOR. Routing swapped with the 430 between Earls Court & South Kensington. 4: Withdrawn between Angel & Archway, extended to Golders Green via 274 to Camden Town & N5 to Golders Green. (If additional capacity is needed along Highbury Grove): 254: Withdrawn between Finsbury Park & Holloway, extended to Angel Islington via the 4. Could swap termini with the 106 if this routing would make it too long. 310: Rerouted between Finsbury Park & Archway via the 4 to Tufnell Park & Junction Road back to LOR. 134: Rerouted via 4’s LOR to Archway. Provides the Whittington Hospital with more links. I don't know why, but I feel like the 390 should go through the 4's route to Archway from Tufnell Park. I would go ahead with my own suggested proposal about 310 though and I don't mind if you decide to split the 274 into 2 routes but I would leave the 134 and 254 as it is. The 134 would benefit more from a rerouting than the 390. Areas like Highgate & Muswell Hill currently don’t have links to Whittington hospital & rerouting the 134 would introduce those. |
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Post by greg on Oct 8, 2024 8:34:28 GMT
I don't know why, but I feel like the 390 should go through the 4's route to Archway from Tufnell Park. I would go ahead with my own suggested proposal about 310 though and I don't mind if you decide to split the 274 into 2 routes but I would leave the 134 and 254 as it is. The 134 would benefit more from a rerouting than the 390. Areas like Highgate & Muswell Hill currently don’t have links to Whittington hospital & rerouting the 134 would introduce those. The 134 serves Highgate and Muswell Hill though? Also the 234 also now does also link as it terminates at Archway. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 8, 2024 10:04:59 GMT
The 134 would benefit more from a rerouting than the 390. Areas like Highgate & Muswell Hill currently don’t have links to Whittington hospital & rerouting the 134 would introduce those. The 134 serves Highgate and Muswell Hill though? Also the 234 also now does also link as it terminates at Archway. Archway station is a bit of distance from Whittington hospital, and you have to walk uphill to get to the hospital. I personally think rerouting the 134 would make sense here. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 8, 2024 11:43:27 GMT
The 134 serves Highgate and Muswell Hill though? Also the 234 also now does also link as it terminates at Archway. Archway station is a bit of distance from Whittington hospital, and you have to walk uphill to get to the hospital. I personally think rerouting the 134 would make sense here. If you really want the 134 to run as close to the hospital as possible without changing itself or other routes too much, you could re-route the 134 via MacDonald Road and remove some parking spaces for a bus stop instead. That said, it’s a 5 min walk from the current 134 stop to the hospital and whilst it’s a via a hill, it’s not the only walk to hospital from bus stops that’s via a hill |
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Post by mrhk on Oct 8, 2024 15:17:22 GMT
Harrow Superloop routes restructure
New route SL(18) - Harrow Bus Station to Maida Hill, The Chippenham via route 182 to Sudbury, Harrow Road, route 18 to Elgin Avenue and route 228 to The Chippenham. This will allow the 18 to be supported whilst also retaining its complete route from Euston to Sudbury and also support the busy 182 up to Harrow.
Stopping at Harrow Bus Station, Northwick Park Hospital, Sudbury and Harrow Road Station, Wembley Central, Wembley Triangle (for Wembley Stadium), Stonebridge Park Station/Point Place, Harlesden Town Centre, Willesden Junction and Kensal Green before terminating at Maida Hill.
SL9 - Extended from Harrow Bus Station to Harrow Weald to allow users a much faster alternative to Harrow Weald and will reconnect Harrow Weald to Heathrow whilst supporting the 140. This would also free up stand space at Harrow for the SL(18).
Stopping at Harrow and Wealdstone Station and Harrow Weald Bus Garage.
SL10 - Extended from Harrow Bus Station to Northwood Station via routes 183 to Pinner Station, and route H11 to Northwood Station. This will re-introduce direct links that were lost when the 183 was cut back to Pinner Station.
Stopping at The Gardens (For West Harrow Station), North Harrow/Station Road, Pinner Love Lane (for Pinner Station), Northwood Hills Circus (For Northwood Hills Station) before terminating at Northwood Station.
Routes 258 and 398
398 - Extended from Ruislip Station to Uxbridge, Crown Walk via route 278 to Hillingdon Station, U2 to Uxbridge Station and 427 to Crown Walk. On the eastern end, the route between Rayners Lane and Northolt Park would be diverted to run the whole length of Alexandra Avenue and follow route 140 to South Harrow, where the route would terminate on the station forecourt. This would help support the Tube between Harrow and Uxbridge by providing relief.
258 - Extended from South Harrow to Northolt Park, Hemery Road. This will make sure that this stretch of the current 398 does not lose their link to South Harrow and can change anywhere on Northolt Road (up to South Harrow Station) for the 398.
Routes 340 and H12
340 - Withdrawn between Edgware Station and Stanmore Broadway and extended to Stanmore Station. On the southern end, the route would be extended from Harrow to Greenford Station via Harrow Town Centre, Northwick Park Hospital, Sudbury Court Drive, Subury Hill Station before running via Greenford Road to terminate at Greenford Station. Northbound, buses would follow route 92's LOR and then return to normal LOR at Subury Hill. This is to connect Harrow with Greenford Quay and provide a quicker, direct route compared to the current 395.
H12 - Cut back to Stanmore Broadway and extended to Edgware Station via current route 340. This is to make sure there aren't any direct links lost with the 340 changes and potentially introuduce new links to current areas the H12 serves.
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 8, 2024 16:17:07 GMT
Harrow Superloop routes restructure New route SL(18) - Harrow Bus Station to Maida Hill, The Chippenham via route 182 to Sudbury, Harrow Road, route 18 to Elgin Avenue and route 228 to The Chippenham. This will allow the 18 to be supported whilst also retaining its complete route from Euston to Sudbury and also support the busy 182 up to Harrow. Stopping at Harrow Bus Station, Northwick Park Hospital, Sudbury and Harrow Road Station, Wembley Central, Wembley Triangle (for Wembley Stadium), Stonebridge Park Station/Point Place, Harlesden Town Centre, Willesden Junction and Kensal Green before terminating at Maida Hill. SL9 - Extended from Harrow Bus Station to Harrow Weald to allow users a much faster alternative to Harrow Weald and will reconnect Harrow Weald to Heathrow whilst supporting the 140. This would also free up stand space at Harrow for the SL(18). Stopping at Harrow and Wealdstone Station and Harrow Weald Bus Garage. SL10 - Extended from Harrow Bus Station to Northwood Station via routes 183 to Pinner Station, and route H11 to Northwood Station. This will re-introduce direct links that were lost when the 183 was cut back to Pinner Station. Stopping at The Gardens (For West Harrow Station), North Harrow/Station Road, Pinner Love Lane (for Pinner Station), Northwood Hills Circus (For Northwood Hills Station) before terminating at Northwood Station. Routes 258 and 398 398 - Extended from Ruislip Station to Uxbridge, Crown Walk via route 278 to Hillingdon Station, U2 to Uxbridge Station and 427 to Crown Walk. On the eastern end, the route between Rayners Lane and Northolt Park would be diverted to run the whole length of Alexandra Avenue and follow route 140 to South Harrow, where the route would terminate on the station forecourt. This would help support the Tube between Harrow and Uxbridge by providing relief. 258 - Extended from South Harrow to Northolt Park, Hemery Road. This will make sure that this stretch of the current 398 does not lose their link to South Harrow and can change anywhere on Northolt Road (up to South Harrow Station) for the 398. Routes 340 and H12 340 - Withdrawn between Edgware Station and Stanmore Broadway and extended to Stanmore Station. On the southern end, the route would be extended from Harrow to Greenford Station via Harrow Town Centre, Northwick Park Hospital, Sudbury Court Drive, Subury Hill Station before running via Greenford Road to terminate at Greenford Station. Northbound, buses would follow route 92's LOR and then return to normal LOR at Subury Hill. This is to connect Harrow with Greenford Quay and provide a quicker, direct route compared to the current 395. H12 - Cut back to Stanmore Broadway and extended to Edgware Station via current route 340. This is to make sure there aren't any direct links lost with the 340 changes and potentially introuduce new links to current areas the H12 serves. SL18 - this route is not needed. I have always maintained that the best way to support the 18 is to give it extra resources. It currently operates every 5 minutes with a PVR of 35; increasing the PVR by 7 would allow the frequency to be restored to every 4 minutes. SL9 - I think the route operates well terminating at Harrow, passengers travelling to/from Wealdstone and Harrow Weald have easy interchange at Harrow Bus Station. The 140 already gets support from the 182, 258 and 340 on this section. SL10 - it is a nice idea to restore long-lost links, but I don't think the SL10 is the way to do it and the demand would not support an extra 5 buses per hour. Maybe tthe way forward here is to extend alternate 183s beyond Pinner to Northwood and Mount Vernon Hospital - or an overlapping Harrow-Mount Vernon route running every 20 minutes - and pull the H11 back to Pinner. 398 - I like your extension to Uxbridge, but I would leave the South Harrow End alone. The rail service does not need support. 340 - I agree with a more direct link between Harrow and Greenford, but I don't think the 340 is the route to do it - an extension at its other end into Colindale is already on the cards. Maybe a new standalone route, running from Harrow to Ealing Hospital (that way, it also takes in Greenford Broadway). Another suggestion is to route it directly via Greenford Road and Westway Cross Retail Park in both directions. Start at 3 bph (2bph evenings) and see how it builds up. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 8, 2024 16:54:52 GMT
Some restructuring ideas I’ve had: 74: Extended to Camden Town via 274’s LOR. Routing swapped with the 430 between Earls Court & South Kensington. 4: Withdrawn between Angel & Archway, extended to Golders Green via 274 to Camden Town & N5 to Golders Green. (If additional capacity is needed along Highbury Grove): 254: Withdrawn between Finsbury Park & Holloway, extended to Angel Islington via the 4. Could swap termini with the 106 if this routing would make it too long. 310: Rerouted between Finsbury Park & Archway via the 4 to Tufnell Park & Junction Road back to LOR. 134: Rerouted via 4’s LOR to Archway. Provides the Whittington Hospital with more links. 274: Withdrawn I can understand rerouting the 4 to Camden Town but would it be justified to Golders Green? I'm not sure about the 134 or 390 going via Whittington Hospital, pros and cons with either. Maybe extend the 263 to Finsbury Park to compensate for the loss of the 4? |
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Post by Unorm on Oct 9, 2024 19:43:04 GMT
Seeing 18 and thinking of replicating 53/363 use of a flyover...
18 frequency reduced to every 7-8. Sunday and evenings changed to every 12
82 Wembley, First Way - via 18 but uses Westway to skip stops - to Euston then to King's Cross.
Every 7-8, 12 Sundays and evenings.
Also achieves contracts that have less than 40 buses whilst returning to previous capacity, now that we have very few routes above a PVR of 30.
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Post by COBO on Oct 11, 2024 2:12:45 GMT
207: extended from Hayes By-Pass to Hayes & Harlington via Uxbridge Road, Coldharbour Lane and route 140 to Hayes & Harlington to provide a round a corner link between Uxbridge Road and Coldharbour Lane.
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Post by LK65EBO on Oct 11, 2024 11:51:25 GMT
117: Withdrawn between West Middlesex Hospital and Isleworth, Fire Station. Then extended to Brentford County Court via route 235 (PVR 12).
235: Withdrawn between Great West Quarter and Isleworth Fire Station. Extended to West Middlesex Hospital via 117. (PVR 19) Converted to 24 hour operation (PVR 4)
116: Extended from Hounslow, Bus Station to Ealing Broadway via route 235 and 65. (PVR 16)
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 11, 2024 12:07:39 GMT
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