ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 113
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 6, 2024 17:01:41 GMT
Southgate Bus Changes: 125: Colindale Superstores - Enfield Town (withdrawn between Eversley Mount and Winchmore Hill, rerouted to Enfield Town via route 456) 382: Millbrook Park - Winchmore Hill (extended to Winchmore Hill via route 125 to replace its withdrawn section with a slight increase in frequency) Enfield is obviously a larger commercial and transport hub compared to Winchmore Hill so rerouting the 125 will give direct links from many popular destinations that the 125 currently serve such as Colindale, Hendon, Finchley Central and North Finchley. Let me know your opinions on this take… I think that in it's current form, the 125 certainly shouldn't be extended anywhere, considering that I've heard from a lot of friends about 125s being late, not turning up, there being gaps in service and curtailments - and as a very long route, I understand where that comes from. In addition, the section on World's End Lane would probably end up over-bussed (with a half-hourly 456 and 377, and the W9 as well), and the 125 section is Winchmore Hill is still quite popular despite it terminating just short of plenty of useful termini. People can easily change at Southgate or Winchmore Hill for very frequent links to Enfield Town (with the 121 and 329). There's also the mess of stands that there is at Enfield Town - coming from the West, there are no appropriate stands available, without the extended 125 having to skip the town centre - which would further reduce demand, and people could just use a 121, 307, 329 or 456 to achieve some of the links. Instead of extending to Enfield Town, as has been suggested previously in this thread, I would split the 125 into a Colindale Superstores - North Finchley route (perhaps to Friern Barnet if there isn't enough stand space), and a Finchley Central - Edmonton Green route, as I could see a lot more demand for a major East-West route along this corridor. The 125 section just from Green Dragon Lane to Winchmore Hill could be left without replacement. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 6, 2024 17:16:21 GMT
Southgate Bus Changes: 125: Colindale Superstores - Enfield Town (withdrawn between Eversley Mount and Winchmore Hill, rerouted to Enfield Town via route 456) 382: Millbrook Park - Winchmore Hill (extended to Winchmore Hill via route 125 to replace its withdrawn section with a slight increase in frequency) Enfield is obviously a larger commercial and transport hub compared to Winchmore Hill so rerouting the 125 will give direct links from many popular destinations that the 125 currently serve such as Colindale, Hendon, Finchley Central and North Finchley. Let me know your opinions on this take… Sounds ok to me and it would also mean double deckers no longer having to negotiate the arched bridge on Green Dragon Lane. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 6, 2024 18:17:05 GMT
Southgate Bus Changes: 125: Colindale Superstores - Enfield Town (withdrawn between Eversley Mount and Winchmore Hill, rerouted to Enfield Town via route 456) 382: Millbrook Park - Winchmore Hill (extended to Winchmore Hill via route 125 to replace its withdrawn section with a slight increase in frequency) Enfield is obviously a larger commercial and transport hub compared to Winchmore Hill so rerouting the 125 will give direct links from many popular destinations that the 125 currently serve such as Colindale, Hendon, Finchley Central and North Finchley. Let me know your opinions on this take… I think that in it's current form, the 125 certainly shouldn't be extended anywhere, considering that I've heard from a lot of friends about 125s being late, not turning up, there being gaps in service and curtailments - and as a very long route, I understand where that comes from. In addition, the section on World's End Lane would probably end up over-bussed (with a half-hourly 456 and 377, and the W9 as well), and the 125 section is Winchmore Hill is still quite popular despite it terminating just short of plenty of useful termini. People can easily change at Southgate or Winchmore Hill for very frequent links to Enfield Town (with the 121 and 329). There's also the mess of stands that there is at Enfield Town - coming from the West, there are no appropriate stands available, without the extended 125 having to skip the town centre - which would further reduce demand, and people could just use a 121, 307, 329 or 456 to achieve some of the links. Instead of extending to Enfield Town, as has been suggested previously in this thread, I would split the 125 into a Colindale Superstores - North Finchley route (perhaps to Friern Barnet if there isn't enough stand space), and a Finchley Central - Edmonton Green route, as I could see a lot more demand for a major East-West route along this corridor. The 125 section just from Green Dragon Lane to Winchmore Hill could be left without replacement. I know that 125 sometimes faces traffic hotspots during rush hours at North Finchley High Road and Southgate High Street but whether it either terminates at Enfield or Winchmore Hill, it won’t really have an impact on the routes reliability since it’s almost the same distance. Also there will be a direct bus running from Winchmore Hill Road to Enfield Town which will be useful. Furthermore, your suggestion of 125 running from only Colindale Superstores to North Finchley or Friern Barnet (fair enough that I’m a fan of long routes, but this is too short). Lastly, there is a termination stand at Enfield Town/Cecil Road, just after where the Lidl is, so 125 can use that spot. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 113
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 6, 2024 18:22:41 GMT
I think that in it's current form, the 125 certainly shouldn't be extended anywhere, considering that I've heard from a lot of friends about 125s being late, not turning up, there being gaps in service and curtailments - and as a very long route, I understand where that comes from. In addition, the section on World's End Lane would probably end up over-bussed (with a half-hourly 456 and 377, and the W9 as well), and the 125 section is Winchmore Hill is still quite popular despite it terminating just short of plenty of useful termini. People can easily change at Southgate or Winchmore Hill for very frequent links to Enfield Town (with the 121 and 329). There's also the mess of stands that there is at Enfield Town - coming from the West, there are no appropriate stands available, without the extended 125 having to skip the town centre - which would further reduce demand, and people could just use a 121, 307, 329 or 456 to achieve some of the links. Instead of extending to Enfield Town, as has been suggested previously in this thread, I would split the 125 into a Colindale Superstores - North Finchley route (perhaps to Friern Barnet if there isn't enough stand space), and a Finchley Central - Edmonton Green route, as I could see a lot more demand for a major East-West route along this corridor. The 125 section just from Green Dragon Lane to Winchmore Hill could be left without replacement. I know that 125 sometimes faces traffic hotspots during rush hours at North Finchley High Road and Southgate High Street but whether it either terminates at Enfield or Winchmore Hill, it won’t really have an impact on the routes reliability since it’s almost the same distance and there will also be a direct bus running from Winchmore Hill Road to Enfield Town which will be useful. Furthermore, your suggestion of 125 running from only Colindale Superstores to North Finchley or Friern Barnet (fair enough that I’m a fan of long routes, but this is too short). Lastly, there is a termination stand at Enfield Town/Cecil Road, just after where the Lidl is, so 125 can use that spot. Don't worry - I'm a fan of long routes as well (especially a 307 to Edgware and 149 back to Ponders End  ), and I'd definitely think a 125 to Enfield town might have worked if some of the conditions were different - I think a 125 to Edmonton Green would be a better use of an extension, rather than Enfield town, but your idea is still definitely a very good one. I'm aware of the old W10 terminus point at Cecil Road, though that would still be a bit far from the town centre, but I think that should be less of a problem. The idea of splitting the 125 was mainly for existing reliability, and either end could still have some scope for extension. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 6, 2024 19:25:24 GMT
I think that in it's current form, the 125 certainly shouldn't be extended anywhere, considering that I've heard from a lot of friends about 125s being late, not turning up, there being gaps in service and curtailments - and as a very long route, I understand where that comes from. In addition, the section on World's End Lane would probably end up over-bussed (with a half-hourly 456 and 377, and the W9 as well), and the 125 section is Winchmore Hill is still quite popular despite it terminating just short of plenty of useful termini. People can easily change at Southgate or Winchmore Hill for very frequent links to Enfield Town (with the 121 and 329). There's also the mess of stands that there is at Enfield Town - coming from the West, there are no appropriate stands available, without the extended 125 having to skip the town centre - which would further reduce demand, and people could just use a 121, 307, 329 or 456 to achieve some of the links. Instead of extending to Enfield Town, as has been suggested previously in this thread, I would split the 125 into a Colindale Superstores - North Finchley route (perhaps to Friern Barnet if there isn't enough stand space), and a Finchley Central - Edmonton Green route, as I could see a lot more demand for a major East-West route along this corridor. The 125 section just from Green Dragon Lane to Winchmore Hill could be left without replacement. I know that 125 sometimes faces traffic hotspots during rush hours at North Finchley High Road and Southgate High Street but whether it either terminates at Enfield or Winchmore Hill, it won’t really have an impact on the routes reliability since it’s almost the same distance. Also there will be a direct bus running from Winchmore Hill Road to Enfield Town which will be useful. Furthermore, your suggestion of 125 running from only Colindale Superstores to North Finchley or Friern Barnet (fair enough that I’m a fan of long routes, but this is too short). Lastly, there is a termination stand at Enfield Town/Cecil Road, just after where the Lidl is, so 125 can use that spot. Two general points to make that's nothing to do with the above routes: 1) Just because two separate routings are the same distance, it doesn't mean that they will take the exact same time to cover so unless they share the same traffic conditions overall, then it can't really be judged to not have an impact. 2) What is too short in terms of a route? A successful route doesn't need to be lengthy and can simply be 1-2 miles if necessary. The W7 & R9 are perfect examples of this as was the 346 before it was amended and there are a few others too. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 113
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 6, 2024 19:46:15 GMT
I know that 125 sometimes faces traffic hotspots during rush hours at North Finchley High Road and Southgate High Street but whether it either terminates at Enfield or Winchmore Hill, it won’t really have an impact on the routes reliability since it’s almost the same distance. Also there will be a direct bus running from Winchmore Hill Road to Enfield Town which will be useful. Furthermore, your suggestion of 125 running from only Colindale Superstores to North Finchley or Friern Barnet (fair enough that I’m a fan of long routes, but this is too short). Lastly, there is a termination stand at Enfield Town/Cecil Road, just after where the Lidl is, so 125 can use that spot. Two general points to make that's nothing to do with the above routes: 1) Just because two separate routings are the same distance, it doesn't mean that they will take the exact same time to cover so unless they share the same traffic conditions overall, then it can't really be judged to not have an impact. 2) What is too short in terms of a route? A successful route doesn't need to be lengthy and can simply be 1-2 miles if necessary. The W7 & R9 are perfect examples of this as was the 346 before it was amended and there are a few others too. That's been in my mind a lot as well, and I couldn't agree more with your point as well - the 291 and E1 are other short routes that come to mind. Though in most of my experiences around the area, traffic isn't too bad around Enfield Town, but it would still put a lot more pressure on top of what 125 already experienced. And with traffic getting worse in London as time goes on, the sad reality is that many longer routes will slowly have to be further cut back, and the 125 would likely be one of the routes at the highest risk of this (and a split would likely be the best-case scenario). |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 6, 2024 19:59:58 GMT
The only problems I can see is there would be some consternation about the loss of the link to St Helier hospital from Cheam and Worcester Park and it would be an awkward change from the 407 in Sutton and possibly some objections to all day double deckers on the Clockhouse Farm loop. I think now TfL have dropped the SL5/SL7 changes, they should be left alone now, although I would increase the SL7 to 5bph and consider new stops at Beddington, Hanworth and Harlington Corner. For the 151/463 changes, I don't think the residents of the Clockhouse estate would be happy with double deckers running around their roads every 15 minutes, longer buses are definitely needed around there but not deckers. The 151 between Sutton and Wallington would also not cope running every 15 minutes, although if it stays on its existing routing to Worcester Park then I would suggest decreasing it from 6bph to 5bph and increasing the busier 213 from 5bph to 6bph, which is PVR neutral. I don't mind the other changes, but you appear to have left the northern half of Beddington Lane without a bus service, which is not ideal, especially with the amount of warehouses around there as well as C and BC garages. Regarding to St Helier hospital link, the S2 would continue to link from Cheam, and from Worcester Park passengers could use the 213 to Sutton which would offer easier interchange to other routes. Could even consider a short extension of the 213 to St Helier Hospital, if a suitable stand space could be created? For the revised 151 (from Sutton to Coulsdon via Hackbridge and Wallington), this could use SDs if there is opposition to DDs through the Clockhouse Estate, I'm not sure how busy the current 151 gets between Sutton and Wallington. Alternatively, the 434 could maybe take over that section, with the 151 running direct from Woodcote Green to Coulsdon (and the 151 keeping DDs in this case)? From Rickman Hill, the 434 could go via Sandown Road, then over the current 463 to Coulsdon, and onwards to Caterham? Also increased to every 20 minutes if needed. Depends if passengers in the estate require a link to Wallington, or if they mostly just go to Coulsdon. In my opinion, I think TFL should reconsider the SL5/SL7 changes, allowing the SL7 to run more reliably. If travelling from Croydon to Kingston or Heathrow, going by train will be much quicker than the SL7 - but the SL7 remains the fastest route from Sutton to Kingston/Heathrow. From Croydon, more local links to Cheam and Worcester Park would be covered by my revised 407, plus the SL5 as far as Sutton. And regardless of this, if extra stops are to be added to the western end of the SL7, I think Feltham should be included too, diverting via Hanworth Road and Hounslow Road. I think the only problem with TFL's proposals is the revised SL5 not serving West Croydon, but it could divert via the 407 instead of Croydon Flyover. In Beddington, I agree that a service should be kept along Beddington Lane, and so I would suggest to instead keep the S4 unchanged, and send the new route 305 (Pollards Hill - Croydon - Purley) via the 463 along Beddington Farm Road, then continuing east to Waddon Marsh and through to Croydon. I would also suggest some further changes in the Purley area. Not sure how well used the 439 has been since being introduced, but I still think it's unnecessary along Purley Way with the 289 converting to DDs, and some other changes could cover links south of Purley. So the 305 (which replaces the 312 to Old Lodge Lane) could divert at Purley Station to go via Foxley Hill Road, Higher Drive and Burcott Road, back to line of route at Old Lodge Lane. Would no longer serve Reedham Station, but still provides a rail link at Purley. Then the 434 would continue to go via Northwood Avenue, but adding a double run in Kenley to Park Road and Wattendon Road. Yes there is the S2 from Cheam to St Helier hospital although it's a rather circuitous route, I don't think extending the 213 to St Helier hospital would be practical . Single deckers could possibly be used on the 151 if it were to be extended to Coulsdon. You make some good points about the SL5 and SL7 and the 439 could do something more useful north of Purley. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Oct 6, 2024 20:56:06 GMT
Southgate Bus Changes: 125: Colindale Superstores - Enfield Town (withdrawn between Eversley Mount and Winchmore Hill, rerouted to Enfield Town via route 456) 382: Millbrook Park - Winchmore Hill (extended to Winchmore Hill via route 125 to replace its withdrawn section with a slight increase in frequency) Enfield is obviously a larger commercial and transport hub compared to Winchmore Hill so rerouting the 125 will give direct links from many popular destinations that the 125 currently serve such as Colindale, Hendon, Finchley Central and North Finchley. Let me know your opinions on this take… Much of the 125's routing east of Southgate already has plenty of alternatives to Enfield. From Southgate you have the 121 and from Highlands Village you have both the W9 and the 456. The 377 as well is within a short walking distance so any extension to Enfield Town will effectively be useless. We are very much spoiled enough on how many services go to Enfield Town. Rather than something like this, I'd prefer a direct link to Edmonton Green. For such a major interchange and hub within local distance, it shocks me to this day how there wasn't a single link until recently, though the latter still provides an abysmal frequency preventing such case from reaching it's full potential or neither takes you there directly. An extension to the 125 will be difficult from a practical perspective. If it wasn't for it's Colindale extension then maybe then would be a case where it's possible, in an ideal world I'll extend it to Edmonton Green to perform what's desirable. Though it would come at a cost from the amount of resources it needs. I do have an idea on how a possible direct Edmonton Green link can be achieved from Winchmore Hill and Highlands Village, but will post this at another time. Let's also not forget the route is stuck with an 'incompetent operator'. Unless the route gets striped off contract (unlikely from the recent tender) or someone throws tomatoes on the windows of RATP'S HQ's then nothing will change. Regarding the 382, if I do remember some odd 20 years ago shortly after introduction, there was meant to be an extension of the route to Winchmore Hill, Station Road routing via Bourne Hill and Green Lanes before using the current 125's stand at Winchmore Hill. Since then Enfield has modified the road junction preventing a bus U-turn as how the 125 used to when operated from AD. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 113
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 6, 2024 21:16:30 GMT
Southgate Bus Changes: 125: Colindale Superstores - Enfield Town (withdrawn between Eversley Mount and Winchmore Hill, rerouted to Enfield Town via route 456) 382: Millbrook Park - Winchmore Hill (extended to Winchmore Hill via route 125 to replace its withdrawn section with a slight increase in frequency) Enfield is obviously a larger commercial and transport hub compared to Winchmore Hill so rerouting the 125 will give direct links from many popular destinations that the 125 currently serve such as Colindale, Hendon, Finchley Central and North Finchley. Let me know your opinions on this take… Much of the 125's routing east of Southgate already has plenty of alternatives to Enfield. From Southgate you have the 121 and from Highlands Village you have both the W9 and the 456. The 377 as well is within a short walking distance so any extension to Enfield Town will effectively be useless. We are very much spoiled enough on how many services go to Enfield Town. Rather than something like this, I'd prefer a direct link to Edmonton Green. For such a major interchange and hub within local distance, it shocks me to this day how there wasn't a single link until recently, though the latter still provides an abysmal frequency preventing such case from reaching it's full potential or neither takes you there directly. An extension to the 125 will be difficult from a practical perspective. If it wasn't for it's Colindale extension then maybe then would be a case where it's possible, in an ideal world I'll extend it to Edmonton Green to perform what's desirable. Though it would come at a cost from the amount of resources it needs. I do have an idea on how a possible direct Edmonton Green link can be achieved from Winchmore Hill and Highlands Village, but will post this at another time. Let's also not forget the route is stuck with an 'incompetent operator'. Unless the route gets striped off contract (unlikely from the recent tender) or someone throws tomatoes on the windows of RATP'S HQ's then nothing will change. Regarding the 382, if I do remember some odd 20 years ago shortly after introduction, there was meant to be an extension of the route to Winchmore Hill, Station Road routing via Bourne Hill and Green Lanes before using the current 125's stand at Winchmore Hill. Since then Enfield has modified the road junction preventing a bus U-turn as how the 125 used to when operated from AD. Well everyone's hopes of the 125 being an actual good bus to ride have been crushed since that recent tender award  . Though all of the points here are very good - you wouldn't understand the horror I experienced when I learnt I needed to take a whole 3 buses just to get to Winchmore Hill. There's also clearly a lot of demand from Edmonton Green Westward - the W6 is a case in point - although that mainly gets the busiest at school start and finish times, it can also get quite busy outside of those times. There's also definitely some untouched potential for longer-distance routes towards Finchley (even with the SL1) and a direct route to Southgate. You always keep us in suspense in this thread about your ideas as well VMH2537- I still await the day where you spill all the beans on all of your Enfield changes, and I completely expect it to be bigger than the entire Central London Bus Review (but actually good this time)  (only joking about that part). You've also given me ideas of what I shall do on my next free weekend (Stamford Brook will never expect which vegetables are coming their way). A 382 extension could also be good, and if the Winchmore Hill stand is unsuitable for this, it could also just be extended to the stand on Hedge Lane, where W6s often curtail when there's issues at Cambridge Roundabout. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 6, 2024 22:07:31 GMT
Much of the 125's routing east of Southgate already has plenty of alternatives to Enfield. From Southgate you have the 121 and from Highlands Village you have both the W9 and the 456. The 377 as well is within a short walking distance so any extension to Enfield Town will effectively be useless. We are very much spoiled enough on how many services go to Enfield Town. Rather than something like this, I'd prefer a direct link to Edmonton Green. For such a major interchange and hub within local distance, it shocks me to this day how there wasn't a single link until recently, though the latter still provides an abysmal frequency preventing such case from reaching it's full potential or neither takes you there directly. An extension to the 125 will be difficult from a practical perspective. If it wasn't for it's Colindale extension then maybe then would be a case where it's possible, in an ideal world I'll extend it to Edmonton Green to perform what's desirable. Though it would come at a cost from the amount of resources it needs. I do have an idea on how a possible direct Edmonton Green link can be achieved from Winchmore Hill and Highlands Village, but will post this at another time. Let's also not forget the route is stuck with an 'incompetent operator'. Unless the route gets striped off contract (unlikely from the recent tender) or someone throws tomatoes on the windows of RATP'S HQ's then nothing will change. Regarding the 382, if I do remember some odd 20 years ago shortly after introduction, there was meant to be an extension of the route to Winchmore Hill, Station Road routing via Bourne Hill and Green Lanes before using the current 125's stand at Winchmore Hill. Since then Enfield has modified the road junction preventing a bus U-turn as how the 125 used to when operated from AD. There's also clearly a lot of demand from Edmonton Green Westward - the W6 is a case in point - although that mainly gets the busiest at school start and finish times, it can also get quite busy outside of those times. There's also definitely some untouched potential for longer-distance routes towards Finchley (even with the SL1) and a direct route to Southgate. You always keep us in suspense in this thread about your ideas as well VMH2537 - I still await the day where you spill all the beans on all of your Enfield changes, and I completely expect it to be bigger than the entire Central London Bus Review (but actually good this time) (only joking about that part). You've also given me ideas of what I shall do on my next free weekend (Stamford Brook will never expect which vegetables are coming their way). A 382 extension could also be good, and if the Winchmore Hill stand is unsuitable for this, it could also just be extended to the stand on Hedge Lane, where W6s often curtail when there's issues at Cambridge Roundabout. I was thinking that W6 and 251 would be nice if it was to be merged (Edgware - Edmonton Green) if Edmonton Green needed a link within the western london region but because of the Hail & Ride Section between North Middlesex Hospital and Edmonton Green Station, unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible unless another small route like 491 takes over that section instead. |
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Post by sdaniel on Oct 6, 2024 22:16:15 GMT
Southgate Bus Changes: 125: Colindale Superstores - Enfield Town (withdrawn between Eversley Mount and Winchmore Hill, rerouted to Enfield Town via route 456) 382: Millbrook Park - Winchmore Hill (extended to Winchmore Hill via route 125 to replace its withdrawn section with a slight increase in frequency) Enfield is obviously a larger commercial and transport hub compared to Winchmore Hill so rerouting the 125 will give direct links from many popular destinations that the 125 currently serve such as Colindale, Hendon, Finchley Central and North Finchley. Let me know your opinions on this take… We are very much spoiled enough on how many services go to Enfield Town. Rather than something like this, I'd prefer a direct link to Edmonton Green. For such a major interchange and hub within local distance, it shocks me to this day how there wasn't a single link until recently, though the latter still provides an abysmal frequency preventing such case from reaching it's full potential or neither takes you there directly. Regarding the 382, if I do remember some odd 20 years ago shortly after introduction, there was meant to be an extension of the route to Winchmore Hill, Station Road routing via Bourne Hill and Green Lanes before using the current 125's stand at Winchmore Hill. Since then Enfield has modified the road junction preventing a bus U-turn as how the 125 used to when operated from AD. Well to be fair, the Enfield buses are slightly in shambles such as the 121, 191, 192, 317, 329 and the W8 which do need some changes. Some of these Enfield buses need extensions, some need curtailing and some need to be direct but I’m sure the Meridian Water development will make majority of the Enfield buses change. About the 382, I don’t see any problems with it extending to Winchmore Hill and the 125 has to deal with the Green Dragon Lane bridge due to being double decker, Henry why I suggested the 382 extension and 125 rerouted to Enfield Town. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 113
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 6, 2024 22:26:42 GMT
There's also clearly a lot of demand from Edmonton Green Westward - the W6 is a case in point - although that mainly gets the busiest at school start and finish times, it can also get quite busy outside of those times. There's also definitely some untouched potential for longer-distance routes towards Finchley (even with the SL1) and a direct route to Southgate. You always keep us in suspense in this thread about your ideas as well VMH2537 - I still await the day where you spill all the beans on all of your Enfield changes, and I completely expect it to be bigger than the entire Central London Bus Review (but actually good this time) (only joking about that part). You've also given me ideas of what I shall do on my next free weekend (Stamford Brook will never expect which vegetables are coming their way). A 382 extension could also be good, and if the Winchmore Hill stand is unsuitable for this, it could also just be extended to the stand on Hedge Lane, where W6s often curtail when there's issues at Cambridge Roundabout. I was thinking that W6 and 251 would be nice if it was to be merged (Edgware - Edmonton Green) if Edmonton Green needed a link within the western london region but because of the Hail & Ride Section between North Middlesex Hospital and Edmonton Green Station, unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible unless another small route like 491 takes over that section instead. As far as operations go, the 251 should be able to take over the W6's Hail & Ride section, and the only slight problem is at the junction with Northern Avenue / Victoria Road, although that's only when 2 buses are badly placed at the junction. However, the purposes of the W6 and 251 are extremely far away from each other - the W6 mostly provides local links between Edmonton Green and Southgate, whereas the 251 caters for a lot more long-distance, fast links, especially considering the routing it takes. The best thing to probably do would be to convert the 251 to double decks (as I don't think there are any restrictions on the route). I think under the original 491, back when it was originally created, it was originally planned to either go via Winchester Road or the entire length of Victoria Road (but I can't seem to remember which one it was). The W6 definitely has its own purpose, and it'd probably best to keep it as it is, as a short, commuter hopper route. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 113
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Post by ZiyQ on Oct 6, 2024 22:34:23 GMT
We are very much spoiled enough on how many services go to Enfield Town. Rather than something like this, I'd prefer a direct link to Edmonton Green. For such a major interchange and hub within local distance, it shocks me to this day how there wasn't a single link until recently, though the latter still provides an abysmal frequency preventing such case from reaching it's full potential or neither takes you there directly. Regarding the 382, if I do remember some odd 20 years ago shortly after introduction, there was meant to be an extension of the route to Winchmore Hill, Station Road routing via Bourne Hill and Green Lanes before using the current 125's stand at Winchmore Hill. Since then Enfield has modified the road junction preventing a bus U-turn as how the 125 used to when operated from AD. Well to be fair, the Enfield buses are slightly in shambles such as the 121, 191, 192, 317, 329 and the W8 which do need some changes. Some of these Enfield buses need extensions, some need curtailing and some need to be direct but I’m sure the Meridian Water development will make majority of the Enfield buses change. About the 382, I don’t see any problems with it extending to Winchmore Hill and the 125 has to deal with the Green Dragon Lane bridge due to being double decker, Henry why I suggested the 382 extension and 125 rerouted to Enfield Town. I wouldn't necessarily describe the buses in Enfield as a shambles - there's certainly some areas that do need to be fixed, but in it's current state, it does a pretty good job in a lot of areas for what it is, especially compared to other boroughs and areas ( not looking at you, Canning Town). I do have a Meridian Water review that I'm slowly making, but there's certainly an extremely wide variety of things that could happen - I think one of the original review s (yes, there have already been multiple done, just nothing completely official yet) had a proposal for the 425 to run from Stratford to Meridian Water. I also never knew that the 125 had any height issues at the bridge at Green Dragon Lane, though if that isn't a problem, the 125 could help sort out the East-West links that Edmonton Green needs. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 7, 2024 0:35:16 GMT
I was thinking that W6 and 251 would be nice if it was to be merged (Edgware - Edmonton Green) if Edmonton Green needed a link within the western london region but because of the Hail & Ride Section between North Middlesex Hospital and Edmonton Green Station, unfortunately that wouldn’t be possible unless another small route like 491 takes over that section instead. As far as operations go, the 251 should be able to take over the W6's Hail & Ride section, and the only slight problem is at the junction with Northern Avenue / Victoria Road, although that's only when 2 buses are badly placed at the junction. However, the purposes of the W6 and 251 are extremely far away from each other - the W6 mostly provides local links between Edmonton Green and Southgate, whereas the 251 caters for a lot more long-distance, fast links, especially considering the routing it takes. The best thing to probably do would be to convert the 251 to double decks (as I don't think there are any restrictions on the route). I think under the original 491, back when it was originally created, it was originally planned to either go via Winchester Road or the entire length of Victoria Road (but I can't seem to remember which one it was). The W6 definitely has its own purpose, and it'd probably best to keep it as it is, as a short, commuter hopper route. I don't know if it was ever sorted but the 251 is prevented from using deckers due to low trees somewhere between Mill Hill & Totteridge |
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Post by bk10mfe on Oct 7, 2024 9:14:09 GMT
Some restructuring ideas I’ve had:
74: Extended to Camden Town via 274’s LOR. Routing swapped with the 430 between Earls Court & South Kensington.
4: Withdrawn between Angel & Archway, extended to Golders Green via 274 to Camden Town & N5 to Golders Green.
(If additional capacity is needed along Highbury Grove): 254: Withdrawn between Finsbury Park & Holloway, extended to Angel Islington via the 4. Could swap termini with the 106 if this routing would make it too long.
310: Rerouted between Finsbury Park & Archway via the 4 to Tufnell Park & Junction Road back to LOR.
134: Rerouted via 4’s LOR to Archway. Provides the Whittington Hospital with more links.
274: Withdrawn
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), and I'd definitely think a 125 to Enfield town might have worked if some of the conditions were different - I think a 125 to Edmonton Green would be a better use of an extension, rather than Enfield town, but your idea is still definitely a very good one. I'm aware of the old W10 terminus point at Cecil Road, though that would still be a bit far from the town centre, but I think that should be less of a problem. The idea of splitting the 125 was mainly for existing reliability, and either end could still have some scope for extension.
. Though all of the points here are very good - you wouldn't understand the horror I experienced when I learnt I needed to take a whole 3 buses just to get to Winchmore Hill. There's also clearly a lot of demand from Edmonton Green Westward - the W6 is a case in point - although that mainly gets the busiest at school start and finish times, it can also get quite busy outside of those times. There's also definitely some untouched potential for longer-distance routes towards Finchley (even with the SL1) and a direct route to Southgate. You always keep us in suspense in this thread about your ideas as well 
(only joking about that part). You've also given me ideas of what I shall do on my next free weekend (Stamford Brook will never expect which vegetables are coming their way).