|
Post by southlondonbus on Jun 18, 2021 17:31:52 GMT
Rather cruel to remove the 3 from Crystal Palace. Addmittidly it would be nice if it took on another role in central London as stopping short at Whitehall makes it slightly the poor relation of the 159 now north of Brixton.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jun 18, 2021 17:54:12 GMT
This is incredibly ambitious but I'm just playing around and would be interested to see what you guys think. Route 3 withdrawn between Crystal Palace and Herne Hill. New stand created for 2 buses on the south side of Rosendale Road just east of Norwood Road. Overflow stand is new stand for 1 bus immediately north of stop Rosendale Road (A) on Norwood Road. Set down at stop Brockwell Park (F), the proceed via Norwood Road, Croxted Road, Hawarden Grove and Rosendale Road to stand. Pick up at stop Brockwell Park (H). Route 3 extended from Whitehall, Horse Guards to Marble Arch. Route 159 withdrawn between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus. Route 159 Stand arrangement at Oxford Circus is stands for 4 buses on north and south side of Henrietta Place (shared with route 22). Route 3 stand arrangement is same as existing route 159. PVR unchanged. New route 443 from Brixton to Norwood Junction. New stand for 2 buses on south side of St John's Crescent just east of Brixton Road. Set down at stop Brixton Station (S), then proceed via Gresham Road, Wiltshire Road and St John's Crescent to stand. Pick up at stop Brixton Road/Brixton Police Station (F). Route via existing route 3 from Brixton to Crystal Palace, then continuing via Church Road and South Norwood Hill. New stand for 1 bus on south side of Grosvenor Road (continuation of existing route 196 stand), broken up to allow for a building fire entrance. Overflow stand for 1 bus on north side of Grosvenor Road just south of Norwood High Street. PVR 13, frequency every 9 minutes (Mon-Sat), 14 minutes (evenings and sundays). Reasons: I personally love route 3, it's one of my favourite Central London routes. I want it to return to the West End so it can become a proper tourist route again, and TFL have culled several routes along that West End corridor (though I fully understand the reasons why). In order to improve reliability, I decided to shorten it significantly at its suburban end and replace that with a dedicated suburban route, much like the 2 and 432. The 443 will also provide a new link in the Upper Norwood section, and relieve routes 157 and 196. The 3 was a favourite of mine in RM days, and the odd RML from Chalk Farm, when it went all the way to Camden Town and even to Parliament Hill Fields for a few years in the 80s. I can't see that ever returning in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was withdrawn north of Brixton, there was some suggestion of it being rerouted to Elephant & Castle replacing the 415.
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Jun 18, 2021 18:04:15 GMT
I've always wondered could a bus be extended (perhaps from the east) to Canary Wharf from Canning Town? I do find it very weird how a local link like that is not at fruition particularly given the retail there is there in Canary Wharf. Perhaps the 330 wouldn't be the worst shout but Green Street is awful in the peaks from my experiences same with Barking Road. If traffic was reduced somehow I would probably advocate perhaps diverting the 58 or 115 to Barking. That corridor is covered by 2 very busy routes being the 5 & 238 so I don't know, would it be the worst shout particularly as those are the only 2 going west? I agree that this link would be useful, though TFL probably claim that the Jubilee Line & DLR are sufficient, and East India Dock Road can get quite congested. The 330 had been proposed to go to Canary Wharf or Crossharbour in a network development paper, but won't be possible if it gets extended towards Silvertown. Other routes at Canning Town could work, such as the 300. An alternative option might be a short extension on the D3 from Leamouth to Canning Town, instead going via Lower Lea Crossing and Silvertown Way, which may be less congested, and could also provide links to the area around the Crystal and cable car. Would require a double run to Orchard Road to maintain a service there.
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 18, 2021 18:27:19 GMT
Rather cruel to remove the 3 from Crystal Palace. Addmittidly it would be nice if it took on another role in central London as stopping short at Whitehall makes it slightly the poor relation of the 159 now north of Brixton. I would suggest if the 94 was culled back from Picadilly Circus perhaps the 3 could always take that stand given that the 22 is using Conduit Street under the Oxford Street Plans.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jun 18, 2021 18:28:25 GMT
Rather cruel to remove the 3 from Crystal Palace. Addmittidly it would be nice if it took on another role in central London as stopping short at Whitehall makes it slightly the poor relation of the 159 now north of Brixton. I would suggest if the 94 was culled back from Picadilly Circus perhaps the 3 could always take that stand given that the 22 is using Conduit Street under the Oxford Street Plans. That would be a good thing but won't happen now.
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jun 18, 2021 19:10:16 GMT
I've always wondered could a bus be extended (perhaps from the east) to Canary Wharf from Canning Town? I do find it very weird how a local link like that is not at fruition particularly given the retail there is there in Canary Wharf. Perhaps the 330 wouldn't be the worst shout but Green Street is awful in the peaks from my experiences same with Barking Road. If traffic was reduced somehow I would probably advocate perhaps diverting the 58 or 115 to Barking. That corridor is covered by 2 very busy routes being the 5 & 238 so I don't know, would it be the worst shout particularly as those are the only 2 going west? I agree that this link would be useful, though TFL probably claim that the Jubilee Line & DLR are sufficient, and East India Dock Road can get quite congested. The 330 had been proposed to go to Canary Wharf or Crossharbour in a network development paper, but won't be possible if it gets extended towards Silvertown. Other routes at Canning Town could work, such as the 300. An alternative option might be a short extension on the D3 from Leamouth to Canning Town, instead going via Lower Lea Crossing and Silvertown Way, which may be less congested, and could also provide links to the area around the Crystal and cable car. Would require a double run to Orchard Road to maintain a service there. What benefit would the D3 bring to Canning Town? There is already a footbridge onto City Island which is a short walk away from where the D3 terminates.
I really don't see what benefit extending a route from the east will bring? Most people going to Canary Wharf will use the Tube, DLR and Elizabeth Line (When Open) Anyway lets not forget no one is returning to work at Canary Wharf according to Social Media posts from those WFH who don't want to go back
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Jun 18, 2021 19:22:54 GMT
I've always wondered could a bus be extended (perhaps from the east) to Canary Wharf from Canning Town? I do find it very weird how a local link like that is not at fruition particularly given the retail there is there in Canary Wharf. Perhaps the 330 wouldn't be the worst shout but Green Street is awful in the peaks from my experiences same with Barking Road. If traffic was reduced somehow I would probably advocate perhaps diverting the 58 or 115 to Barking. That corridor is covered by 2 very busy routes being the 5 & 238 so I don't know, would it be the worst shout particularly as those are the only 2 going west? I agree that this link would be useful, though TFL probably claim that the Jubilee Line & DLR are sufficient, and East India Dock Road can get quite congested. The 330 had been proposed to go to Canary Wharf or Crossharbour in a network development paper, but won't be possible if it gets extended towards Silvertown. Other routes at Canning Town could work, such as the 300. An alternative option might be a short extension on the D3 from Leamouth to Canning Town, instead going via Lower Lea Crossing and Silvertown Way, which may be less congested, and could also provide links to the area around the Crystal and cable car. Would require a double run to Orchard Road to maintain a service there. I think the D3 is the most sensible one frankly and will be quick as it takes a different route vs. What the 115 takes between poplar and Canning Town. It is a weird gap in the network I must say
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jun 18, 2021 19:24:05 GMT
This is incredibly ambitious but I'm just playing around and would be interested to see what you guys think. Route 3 withdrawn between Crystal Palace and Herne Hill. New stand created for 2 buses on the south side of Rosendale Road just east of Norwood Road. Overflow stand is new stand for 1 bus immediately north of stop Rosendale Road (A) on Norwood Road. Set down at stop Brockwell Park (F), the proceed via Norwood Road, Croxted Road, Hawarden Grove and Rosendale Road to stand. Pick up at stop Brockwell Park (H). Route 3 extended from Whitehall, Horse Guards to Marble Arch. Route 159 withdrawn between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus. Route 159 Stand arrangement at Oxford Circus is stands for 4 buses on north and south side of Henrietta Place (shared with route 22). Route 3 stand arrangement is same as existing route 159. PVR unchanged. New route 443 from Brixton to Norwood Junction. New stand for 2 buses on south side of St John's Crescent just east of Brixton Road. Set down at stop Brixton Station (S), then proceed via Gresham Road, Wiltshire Road and St John's Crescent to stand. Pick up at stop Brixton Road/Brixton Police Station (F). Route via existing route 3 from Brixton to Crystal Palace, then continuing via Church Road and South Norwood Hill. New stand for 1 bus on south side of Grosvenor Road (continuation of existing route 196 stand), broken up to allow for a building fire entrance. Overflow stand for 1 bus on north side of Grosvenor Road just south of Norwood High Street. PVR 13, frequency every 9 minutes (Mon-Sat), 14 minutes (evenings and sundays). Reasons: I personally love route 3, it's one of my favourite Central London routes. I want it to return to the West End so it can become a proper tourist route again, and TFL have culled several routes along that West End corridor (though I fully understand the reasons why). In order to improve reliability, I decided to shorten it significantly at its suburban end and replace that with a dedicated suburban route, much like the 2 and 432. The 443 will also provide a new link in the Upper Norwood section, and relieve routes 157 and 196. You don't want more buses using that Grosvenor Road stand. If you extend it as suggested, would there be turning issues? This means as a local I can not support this proposal. Additionally, the number 443 is proposed for use in the Croydon & Sutton changes
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2021 21:56:32 GMT
This is incredibly ambitious but I'm just playing around and would be interested to see what you guys think. Route 3 withdrawn between Crystal Palace and Herne Hill. New stand created for 2 buses on the south side of Rosendale Road just east of Norwood Road. Overflow stand is new stand for 1 bus immediately north of stop Rosendale Road (A) on Norwood Road. Set down at stop Brockwell Park (F), the proceed via Norwood Road, Croxted Road, Hawarden Grove and Rosendale Road to stand. Pick up at stop Brockwell Park (H). Route 3 extended from Whitehall, Horse Guards to Marble Arch. Route 159 withdrawn between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus. Route 159 Stand arrangement at Oxford Circus is stands for 4 buses on north and south side of Henrietta Place (shared with route 22). Route 3 stand arrangement is same as existing route 159. PVR unchanged. New route 443 from Brixton to Norwood Junction. New stand for 2 buses on south side of St John's Crescent just east of Brixton Road. Set down at stop Brixton Station (S), then proceed via Gresham Road, Wiltshire Road and St John's Crescent to stand. Pick up at stop Brixton Road/Brixton Police Station (F). Route via existing route 3 from Brixton to Crystal Palace, then continuing via Church Road and South Norwood Hill. New stand for 1 bus on south side of Grosvenor Road (continuation of existing route 196 stand), broken up to allow for a building fire entrance. Overflow stand for 1 bus on north side of Grosvenor Road just south of Norwood High Street. PVR 13, frequency every 9 minutes (Mon-Sat), 14 minutes (evenings and sundays). Reasons: I personally love route 3, it's one of my favourite Central London routes. I want it to return to the West End so it can become a proper tourist route again, and TFL have culled several routes along that West End corridor (though I fully understand the reasons why). In order to improve reliability, I decided to shorten it significantly at its suburban end and replace that with a dedicated suburban route, much like the 2 and 432. The 443 will also provide a new link in the Upper Norwood section, and relieve routes 157 and 196. As someone who is local to the 3, I strongly disagree with this as the case for returning it to the West End is nowhere as warranted as the case for what it does currently which is providing very useful links from Dulwich to Brixton & beyond even if the Victoria Line has taken some of this trade. Furthermore, it's the most reliable & quickest link from Palace to Brixton. Furthermore, the routing to this new stand on Rosendale Road is certainly not viable in LT's let alone conventional deckers especially entering Rosendale Road from Norwood Road which is a narrow turning. The 443 also offers nothing new or warranted to Lambeth - Brixton is already linked to Norwood Junction via the long established 196. The one aspect that I like is the link to Palace from Norwood Junction via Church Road which could be done via extending the 312 to Palace.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jun 19, 2021 8:12:55 GMT
This is incredibly ambitious but I'm just playing around and would be interested to see what you guys think. Route 3 withdrawn between Crystal Palace and Herne Hill. New stand created for 2 buses on the south side of Rosendale Road just east of Norwood Road. Overflow stand is new stand for 1 bus immediately north of stop Rosendale Road (A) on Norwood Road. Set down at stop Brockwell Park (F), the proceed via Norwood Road, Croxted Road, Hawarden Grove and Rosendale Road to stand. Pick up at stop Brockwell Park (H). Route 3 extended from Whitehall, Horse Guards to Marble Arch. Route 159 withdrawn between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus. Route 159 Stand arrangement at Oxford Circus is stands for 4 buses on north and south side of Henrietta Place (shared with route 22). Route 3 stand arrangement is same as existing route 159. PVR unchanged. New route 443 from Brixton to Norwood Junction. New stand for 2 buses on south side of St John's Crescent just east of Brixton Road. Set down at stop Brixton Station (S), then proceed via Gresham Road, Wiltshire Road and St John's Crescent to stand. Pick up at stop Brixton Road/Brixton Police Station (F). Route via existing route 3 from Brixton to Crystal Palace, then continuing via Church Road and South Norwood Hill. New stand for 1 bus on south side of Grosvenor Road (continuation of existing route 196 stand), broken up to allow for a building fire entrance. Overflow stand for 1 bus on north side of Grosvenor Road just south of Norwood High Street. PVR 13, frequency every 9 minutes (Mon-Sat), 14 minutes (evenings and sundays). Reasons: I personally love route 3, it's one of my favourite Central London routes. I want it to return to the West End so it can become a proper tourist route again, and TFL have culled several routes along that West End corridor (though I fully understand the reasons why). In order to improve reliability, I decided to shorten it significantly at its suburban end and replace that with a dedicated suburban route, much like the 2 and 432. The 443 will also provide a new link in the Upper Norwood section, and relieve routes 157 and 196. As someone who is local to the 3, I strongly disagree with this as the case for returning it to the West End is nowhere as warranted as the case for what it does currently which is providing very useful links from Dulwich to Brixton & beyond even if the Victoria Line has taken some of this trade. Furthermore, it's the most reliable & quickest link from Palace to Brixton. Furthermore, the routing to this new stand on Rosendale Road is certainly not viable in LT's let alone conventional deckers especially entering Rosendale Road from Norwood Road which is a narrow turning. The 443 also offers nothing new or warranted to Lambeth - Brixton is already linked to Norwood Junction via the long established 196. The one aspect that I like is the link to Palace from Norwood Junction via Church Road which could be done via extending the 312 to Palace. Other than no stand space at the Palace.
|
|
|
Post by aaron1 on Jun 19, 2021 8:37:27 GMT
This is incredibly ambitious but I'm just playing around and would be interested to see what you guys think. Route 3 withdrawn between Crystal Palace and Herne Hill. New stand created for 2 buses on the south side of Rosendale Road just east of Norwood Road. Overflow stand is new stand for 1 bus immediately north of stop Rosendale Road (A) on Norwood Road. Set down at stop Brockwell Park (F), the proceed via Norwood Road, Croxted Road, Hawarden Grove and Rosendale Road to stand. Pick up at stop Brockwell Park (H). Route 3 extended from Whitehall, Horse Guards to Marble Arch. Route 159 withdrawn between Marble Arch and Oxford Circus. Route 159 Stand arrangement at Oxford Circus is stands for 4 buses on north and south side of Henrietta Place (shared with route 22). Route 3 stand arrangement is same as existing route 159. PVR unchanged. New route 443 from Brixton to Norwood Junction. New stand for 2 buses on south side of St John's Crescent just east of Brixton Road. Set down at stop Brixton Station (S), then proceed via Gresham Road, Wiltshire Road and St John's Crescent to stand. Pick up at stop Brixton Road/Brixton Police Station (F). Route via existing route 3 from Brixton to Crystal Palace, then continuing via Church Road and South Norwood Hill. New stand for 1 bus on south side of Grosvenor Road (continuation of existing route 196 stand), broken up to allow for a building fire entrance. Overflow stand for 1 bus on north side of Grosvenor Road just south of Norwood High Street. PVR 13, frequency every 9 minutes (Mon-Sat), 14 minutes (evenings and sundays). Reasons: I personally love route 3, it's one of my favourite Central London routes. I want it to return to the West End so it can become a proper tourist route again, and TFL have culled several routes along that West End corridor (though I fully understand the reasons why). In order to improve reliability, I decided to shorten it significantly at its suburban end and replace that with a dedicated suburban route, much like the 2 and 432. The 443 will also provide a new link in the Upper Norwood section, and relieve routes 157 and 196. The 3 was a favourite of mine in RM days, and the odd RML from Chalk Farm, when it went all the way to Camden Town and even to Parliament Hill Fields for a few years in the 80s. I can't see that ever returning in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was withdrawn north of Brixton, there was some suggestion of it being rerouted to Elephant & Castle replacing the 415. Man I love to done the long bus ride from the 70's and 80's like 2 when to Arnos grove 15 Richmond to East Ham 16 when to Sudbury town 142 when to Kilburn Park 159 when from West Hampstead to Old Coulson
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jun 19, 2021 9:23:50 GMT
As someone who is local to the 3, I strongly disagree with this as the case for returning it to the West End is nowhere as warranted as the case for what it does currently which is providing very useful links from Dulwich to Brixton & beyond even if the Victoria Line has taken some of this trade. Furthermore, it's the most reliable & quickest link from Palace to Brixton. Furthermore, the routing to this new stand on Rosendale Road is certainly not viable in LT's let alone conventional deckers especially entering Rosendale Road from Norwood Road which is a narrow turning. The 443 also offers nothing new or warranted to Lambeth - Brixton is already linked to Norwood Junction via the long established 196. The one aspect that I like is the link to Palace from Norwood Junction via Church Road which could be done via extending the 312 to Palace. Other than no stand space at the Palace. The may find some stand space now the 3 and 227 stand on the Parade. Maybe the 122 or 363 could squeeze onto the Parade giving some space for the 312.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jun 19, 2021 9:55:21 GMT
Other than no stand space at the Palace. The may find some stand space now the 3 and 227 stand on the Parade. Maybe the 122 or 363 could squeeze onto the Parade giving some space for the 312. It would have to be a route in the other part of the bus station as it’s right turn only from the 122/202/363 section when leaving the bus station but the problem is none come from the Dulwich or Sydenham direction so nothing can be shoved out. The only way to do it would be to extend it beyond Palace really.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jun 19, 2021 11:09:18 GMT
The may find some stand space now the 3 and 227 stand on the Parade. Maybe the 122 or 363 could squeeze onto the Parade giving some space for the 312. It would have to be a route in the other part of the bus station as it’s right turn only from the 122/202/363 section when leaving the bus station but the problem is none come from the Dulwich or Sydenham direction so nothing can be shoved out. The only way to do it would be to extend it beyond Palace really. I guess it's not considered acceptable to have buses doing a U turn either making it hard for the 157, 322, 417 to stand on the Parade either as I know the 3 and 227 swing into the bus station, pick up at the nornal stop by the info desk then use the traffic lights to turn onto the normal line of route.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jun 19, 2021 22:24:59 GMT
It would have to be a route in the other part of the bus station as it’s right turn only from the 122/202/363 section when leaving the bus station but the problem is none come from the Dulwich or Sydenham direction so nothing can be shoved out. The only way to do it would be to extend it beyond Palace really. I guess it's not considered acceptable to have buses doing a U turn either making it hard for the 157, 322, 417 to stand on the Parade either as I know the 3 and 227 swing into the bus station, pick up at the nornal stop by the info desk then use the traffic lights to turn onto the normal line of route. Too many routes terminating at Crystal Palace, if the 249 and 432 could be accommodated there the savings could fund the 312 extension which would be a much better use of resources. The only other thing I can think of is if the 312 could terminate at High Level Drive.
|
|