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Post by WH241 on Nov 11, 2021 15:22:57 GMT
Not just Central London either, I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Unless TfL are going to make a concerted effort to get people back onto buses post covid the spiral of decline is going to continue. I think people really are still working from home and going out more locally. It's a very hard one for central government to fully enforce an office return I think now. Office works are still returning! HSBC at Canary Wharf are preparing for staff to return in the next few weeks, staff are expected to be in work a minimum of 3 days. The reason some places are slow is because adjustments are being to office layouts. |
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Post by WH241 on Nov 11, 2021 15:24:20 GMT
As far as I'm aware there haven't been any overcrowding issues. I see the 390 regularly along the full length of Oxford Street and its not exactly rammed. It become more frequent between Kings X and Archway then pre 2017 and it still have the 73 from Oxo to help I was on Shaftesbury Avenue and Piccadilly tonight between 5.30 and 6ish I guess and I have to say I was quite shocked by how empty the 38s are now. I know people on here never want to acknowledge it but I genuinely was shocked by just how many I saw in either direction with little more then a handful on each, some probably with 3 people. 19s similar aswell if running behind a 38. Also on Piccadilly in the direction of Russell Square literally empty 14s in convoy which admittedly against the flow at that time but even heading away from the town the 14s and 22s were light is best to describe it. Half the seats maybe taken upstairs and some downstairs but no standing. Hard to belive in the original Routemaster days, which did hold less I know, but would be heaving at these times back to Victoria, Putney etc. Really quite a surprise and either shows quite how bad the decline is and what a mountain to get some back or how work from home really has taken hold. Sad really. Not just Central London either, I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Unless TfL are going to make a concerted effort to get people back onto buses post covid the spiral of decline is going to continue. Meanwhile in east London buses are pretty much back to pre covid levels and rammed. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 11, 2021 15:49:30 GMT
Not just Central London either, I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Unless TfL are going to make a concerted effort to get people back onto buses post covid the spiral of decline is going to continue. I think people really are still working from home and going out more locally. It's a very hard one for central government to fully enforce an office return I think now. Indeed and town centres tend to be a lot quieter nowadays with the boom in online shopping but traffic congestion seems to be getting worse and I suspect a lot of people who used buses regularly before the pandemic have stopped doing so and probably drive, cycle or walk instead and are unlikely to return to bus travel when the pandemic is over without some persuasion. |
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Post by WH241 on Nov 11, 2021 15:58:09 GMT
I think people really are still working from home and going out more locally. It's a very hard one for central government to fully enforce an office return I think now. Indeed and town centres tend to be a lot quieter nowadays with the boom in online shopping but traffic congestion seems to be getting worse and I suspect a lot of people who used buses regularly before the pandemic have stopped doing so and probably drive, cycle or walk instead and are unlikely to return to bus travel when the pandemic is over without some persuasion. I scratch my head when I read comments like this. You make it sound a good thing. I wish people would appreciate all the jobs behind the scene that are affected when offices are closed or people don't go to the shops to buy goods. What a bleak future we have all sat at home no interaction and bikes and vans flying all over the place dropping off tat from Amazon and McDonald's Deliveries. This is not how I saw the future! I really hope you are wrong and people do continue to return to the old normal as we approach 2022. From what I have seen it next year could be almost as normal as 2019. Those who want to stay locked up can the rest of the world wants to live and have interaction not on zoom. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 11, 2021 16:43:33 GMT
Perhaps the 41 could be extended to Kings Cross rather than merging with the 390 completely. The 73 would then be reinstated to Victoria with the 390 withdrawn. This would give more areas like Hornsey access to central London by bus and wouldn't be too long of an extension. Why though? The 41 is fine as is and this would not be popular politically due to Torriano Estate residents losing their link to UCH.
Will also add here - Turnpike Lane/Seven Sisters/Hornsey/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters have train links into Kings Cross already (for Hornsey it's a change of train at Finsbury Park or on weekends I believe some run straight through to Kings Cross) and Crouch End has a link by the 91. To me it would be pointless and there are good reasons why routes such as the 41/W3/W7 exist and that's to feed large crowds of people into stations and especially in the case of the W3, provide cross-North London links that are of use to lots of people. I wouldn't also suggest a 41 extension to Meridian Water - before that one pops up. Demand does not match a 6 minute frequency DD up to Meridian Water.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 11, 2021 16:47:21 GMT
Perhaps the 41 could be extended to Kings Cross rather than merging with the 390 completely. The 73 would then be reinstated to Victoria with the 390 withdrawn. This would give more areas like Hornsey access to central London by bus and wouldn't be too long of an extension. The 41 moves slowly as it is; extending it will ruin reliability Agreed, the 41 doesn't need the Tufnell Park/York Way traffic as well. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 11, 2021 17:14:08 GMT
As far as I'm aware there haven't been any overcrowding issues. I see the 390 regularly along the full length of Oxford Street and its not exactly rammed. It become more frequent between Kings X and Archway then pre 2017 and it still have the 73 from Oxo to help I was on Shaftesbury Avenue and Piccadilly tonight between 5.30 and 6ish I guess and I have to say I was quite shocked by how empty the 38s are now. I know people on here never want to acknowledge it but I genuinely was shocked by just how many I saw in either direction with little more then a handful on each, some probably with 3 people. 19s similar aswell if running behind a 38. Also on Piccadilly in the direction of Russell Square literally empty 14s in convoy which admittedly against the flow at that time but even heading away from the town the 14s and 22s were light is best to describe it. Half the seats maybe taken upstairs and some downstairs but no standing. Hard to belive in the original Routemaster days, which did hold less I know, but would be heaving at these times back to Victoria, Putney etc. Really quite a surprise and either shows quite how bad the decline is and what a mountain to get some back or how work from home really has taken hold. Sad really. Not just Central London either, I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Unless TfL are going to make a concerted effort to get people back onto buses post covid the spiral of decline is going to continue. I think 'quieter' is a better description and one the driver probably meant as apposed to quiet which is trying to imply that they running around with close to fresh air which isn't the case on routes in this part of South London - have seen the 468 several times on different parts of it's route within Southwark & Lambeth just this week alone and quiet isn't what I'd describe it at all. Getting people back onto public transport is one thing but equally, the spiral of decline as you refer to will continue when people like yourself continue to justify cuts  |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 11, 2021 18:01:08 GMT
As far as I'm aware there haven't been any overcrowding issues. I see the 390 regularly along the full length of Oxford Street and its not exactly rammed. It become more frequent between Kings X and Archway then pre 2017 and it still have the 73 from Oxo to help I was on Shaftesbury Avenue and Piccadilly tonight between 5.30 and 6ish I guess and I have to say I was quite shocked by how empty the 38s are now. I know people on here never want to acknowledge it but I genuinely was shocked by just how many I saw in either direction with little more then a handful on each, some probably with 3 people. 19s similar aswell if running behind a 38. Also on Piccadilly in the direction of Russell Square literally empty 14s in convoy which admittedly against the flow at that time but even heading away from the town the 14s and 22s were light is best to describe it. Half the seats maybe taken upstairs and some downstairs but no standing. Hard to belive in the original Routemaster days, which did hold less I know, but would be heaving at these times back to Victoria, Putney etc. Really quite a surprise and either shows quite how bad the decline is and what a mountain to get some back or how work from home really has taken hold. Sad really. I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Could the 468 be down to the stupid frequency reduction that took place on it a few years back, I don't know why that had to be the one to bare the brunt. The 68/468 are both busy between E&C and West Norwood. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 11, 2021 18:03:30 GMT
Not just Central London either, I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Unless TfL are going to make a concerted effort to get people back onto buses post covid the spiral of decline is going to continue. Meanwhile in east London buses are pretty much back to pre covid levels and rammed. North London seems to be getting to that stage as well. The 263 seems pretty back to normal. Ditto the 102. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 11, 2021 18:06:29 GMT
I was chatting to a Norwood driver this morning and he was saying how quiet routes like the 249,417 and 468 are nowadays compared to what they used to be. Could the 468 be down to the stupid frequency reduction that took place on it a few years back, I don't know why that had to be the one to bare the brunt. The 68/468 are both busy between E&C and West Norwood. Why was the frequency reduction stupid? It was only in line with falling demand and another frequency reduction looks highly likely. You could say it was stupid if buses were full and people were being left behind like on the N9. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 11, 2021 18:47:12 GMT
Could the 468 be down to the stupid frequency reduction that took place on it a few years back, I don't know why that had to be the one to bare the brunt. The 68/468 are both busy between E&C and West Norwood. Why was the frequency reduction stupid? It was only in line with falling demand and another frequency reduction looks highly likely. You could say it was stupid if buses were full and people were being left behind like on the N9. The frequency reduction is stupid because it will obviously lead to demand falling again but you wouldn't understand this especially as you go on to suggest another is highly likely without any actual evidence as per usual. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 11, 2021 18:51:46 GMT
Could the 468 be down to the stupid frequency reduction that took place on it a few years back, I don't know why that had to be the one to bare the brunt. The 68/468 are both busy between E&C and West Norwood. Why was the frequency reduction stupid? It was only in line with falling demand and another frequency reduction looks highly likely. You could say it was stupid if buses were full and people were being left behind like on the N9. I certainly remember some worry from members about loss of capacity south of West Norwood, perhaps the freq reduction was okay north of West Norwood because it has the support of the multitude of routes up to Tulse Hill, the support of the 68 to E&C and the many routes between Camberwell & E&C. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 11, 2021 18:57:20 GMT
Why was the frequency reduction stupid? It was only in line with falling demand and another frequency reduction looks highly likely. You could say it was stupid if buses were full and people were being left behind like on the N9. I certainly remember some worry from members about loss of capacity south of West Norwood, perhaps the freq reduction was okay north of West Norwood because it has the support of the multitude of routes up to Tulse Hill, the support of the 68 to E&C and the many routes between Camberwell & E&C. Well to be honest I was a bit dubious about it at the time, I thought there might be overcrowding at the Croydon end but that doesn't seem to have happened so in fairness TfL probably got this one right. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 11, 2021 19:01:42 GMT
Why was the frequency reduction stupid? It was only in line with falling demand and another frequency reduction looks highly likely. You could say it was stupid if buses were full and people were being left behind like on the N9. The frequency reduction is stupid because it will obviously lead to demand falling again but you wouldn't understand this especially as you go on to suggest another is highly likely without any actual evidence as per usual. I do feel as if frequency reductions are being made surely the saving used should be re-imbursed into the existing network? For example the 143 could outside of school times and even in the peak hours at the moment do with an x10 frequency or maybe even an x8 (but that would prob be with SDO journeys removed/the 643s journeys decreased), I've been on many 143s at 5pm where the buses can be packed to the door. Getting people onto public transport would be easier if there was a guarantee that you could actually get on, I've been on 143s where they start to load up at Archway and along Highgate Hill, full to East Finchley Station where some disperse, load up with even more and then along East End Road I've been on buses where drivers cannot stop because of how busy the bus is. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 11, 2021 19:43:14 GMT
Why was the frequency reduction stupid? It was only in line with falling demand and another frequency reduction looks highly likely. You could say it was stupid if buses were full and people were being left behind like on the N9. The frequency reduction is stupid because it will obviously lead to demand falling again but you wouldn't understand this especially as you go on to suggest another is highly likely without any actual evidence as per usual. Clearly tfl have data for these sort of things. Again huge investment in creating the Overground probably took a bit of demand off a route that links Croydon to zone 2 and 3. |
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