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Post by WH241 on Dec 4, 2021 20:15:16 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. Cutting the Central Line back to Woodford? no chance it is extremely well used to Epping and people from places further away travel there by bus to connect to the tube! I would say its much busier compared to the Bakerloo Line. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2021 20:22:20 GMT
Routes 17, 40, 45, 46, 63:
Option 1:
40 extended to King's Cross via 63. 63 cut back to Clerkenwell Green. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell.
Option 2:
40 withdrawn between Clerkenwell Green and City Thameslink station. Rerouted to King's Cross. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell (via Chancery Lane). The 63 already links Elephant and Clerkenwell, so could do without the 40 on this section (perhaps with a frequency increase though):
Option 3:
17 withdrawn between Ludgate Circus and London Bridge. Rerouted to Elephant and Castle via route 45. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant (via Chancery Lane).
46 withdrawn between Holborn Circus and Bart's Hospital. Rerouted to London Bridge via 17, to replace the 17. The 63 stops near enough for people to walk to catch the bus to King's Cross.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 4, 2021 21:04:58 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. You do realise the minute you tamper with the Outer sections of the tube, your seriously ask for trouble. If cuts are made to the tube, why on earth would you target sections like that in comparison to sections that run alongside another line. On top of that, TfL won’t extend bus services into Essex because it’s well documented how TfL isn’t interested in new cross border routes/new extensions |
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Post by passingfordbridgeboy on Dec 4, 2021 21:49:30 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. I live at the N.E.end of the central line, so thanks. Seriously Epping to Woodford is extremely busy, not just during peak times. Also the bus service in Loughton, Debden, Theydon Bois is shocking probably because of the central line, it would cause a lot of inconvenience if it was withdrawn and no new buses would make up for that. I presume the Bakerloo proposed closure is because it is on paper anyway superfluous. The Zone 1 section has plenty of alternative lines, the northern end has the overground alternative. But really this is Sadiq Kahn posturing to get more dosh out of Bojo, and well done Sadiq for threatening this, Bojo would never want this on his watch so it won't happen. If money has to be saved I'd slightly lower bus frequency on some routes in the evening. 6 buses per hour becoming 5, 5 becoming 4 etc. |
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Post by danorak on Dec 4, 2021 22:40:48 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. You do realise the minute you tamper with the Outer sections of the tube, your seriously ask for trouble. If cuts are made to the tube, why on earth would you target sections like that in comparison to sections that run alongside another line. On top of that, TfL won’t extend bus services into Essex because it’s well documented how TfL isn’t interested in new cross border routes/new extensions And playing a longer game, that would kill any chance of TfL being given responsibility for any 'Great British Railways' services that cross the London border. No neighbouring county would ever trust TfL with them. |
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Post by greenboy on Dec 4, 2021 23:01:47 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. I think the Bakerloo Line is more likely to be suspended than any section of the Central Line, possibly keeping the Bakerloo just between Harrow & Wealdstone and Paddington. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 4, 2021 23:21:24 GMT
You do realise the minute you tamper with the Outer sections of the tube, your seriously ask for trouble. If cuts are made to the tube, why on earth would you target sections like that in comparison to sections that run alongside another line. On top of that, TfL won’t extend bus services into Essex because it’s well documented how TfL isn’t interested in new cross border routes/new extensions And playing a longer game, that would kill any chance of TfL being given responsibility for any 'Great British Railways' services that cross the London border. No neighbouring county would ever trust TfL with them. Indeed and furthermore, all it takes is people in Outer London to find Khan's quote of moving resources from Central London to Outer London and spin it against him in any upcoming election by saying, "well your cutting our tube service so where is this so called investment" |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 5, 2021 1:20:04 GMT
And playing a longer game, that would kill any chance of TfL being given responsibility for any 'Great British Railways' services that cross the London border. No neighbouring county would ever trust TfL with them. Indeed and furthermore, all it takes is people in Outer London to find Khan's quote of moving resources from Central London to Outer London and spin it against him in any upcoming election by saying, "well your cutting our tube service so where is this so called investment" Some people will end up being upset ... cant please all of them all of the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 9:55:06 GMT
Central London bus changes:
Routes 17, 40, 45, 46, 63:
Option 1:
40 extended to King's Cross via 63. 63 cut back to Clerkenwell Green. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell.
Option 2:
40 withdrawn between Clerkenwell Green and City Thameslink station. Rerouted to King's Cross. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell (via Chancery Lane). The 63 already links Elephant and Clerkenwell, so could do without the 40 on this section (perhaps with a frequency increase though):
Option 3:
17 withdrawn between Ludgate Circus and London Bridge. Rerouted to Elephant and Castle via route 45. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant (via Chancery Lane).
46 withdrawn between Holborn Circus and Bart's Hospital. Rerouted to London Bridge via 17, to replace the 17. The 63 stops near enough for people to walk to catch the bus to King's Cross.
Euston Road corridor:
59 - extended to Chalk Farm via 168. To link Camden with Brixton.
68 - withdrawn between Euston and Aldwych. To reduce overbussing between Euston and Waterloo.
168 - withdrawn
27 - extended to Hampstead Heath via 168. To replace lost links on the 168
Routes 45, 57, 94, 148, 355, P4:
Option 1:
94 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Piccadilly Circus. Rerouted to Victoria via 148. To replace lost links on 148
45 - extended to Marble Arch via 148. To replace lost links on 148
148 - withdrawn
Option 2:
57 - extended to Brixton via 355
355 - rerouted between Clapham Park and Brixton via 45. To retain the link between Clapham Park and Brixton via the A23
45 - withdrawn between Brixton and Clapham Park. Extended from Elephant to King's Cross via previous routing. To link King's Cross and Brixton.
P4 - extended from Brixton to Clapham Park either via 45 or 355. To retain the link from Clapham Park as far as Loughborough Junction.
Routes 19 and 22:
19 - withdrawn
22 - withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Rerouted to Holborn via 19. To maintain lost links on 19.
Routes 7, 14, 98 and 414:
Option 1:
7 - extended to Holborn via 98. To maintain lost links on 98. Also withdrawn between Du Cane Road and Brunel Road and extended to Park Royal Asda via 260
98 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Holborn. Extended from Willesden to Wembley Park Asda via 302 and 83. To reduce the number of buses on Oxford Street and to link Wembley Park with Oxford Street
Option 2:
7 - as above
98/414 - merged, revised to operate between Fulham Broadway and Willesden via 414 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. Renumbered 98 with the 414 withdrawn
14 - frequency increase
Routes 11 and 211:
11 - extended to Hammersmith via 211. Revised to operate between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street
211 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 11.
Routes 316 and 332:
316 - extended to Brent Park Tesco via 332.
332 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 316. To reduce overbussing on Kilburn High Road
Routes 46, 603, 17:
46 - withdrawn between Paddington and Hampstead station, and City Thameslink and Bart's Hospital. Extended to Golders Green and London Bridge respectively.
603 - extended to Paddington via 46. To replace lost links on 46. Frequency will match the 46's frequency.
17 - withdrawn between City Thameslink and London Bridge. Rerouted to Bart's Hospital.
Routes 21, 43, 271:
271 - extended to Elephant and Castle via 43 and 133. To link Highgate with south London
43 - cut back to Moorgate, replaced by 271.
21 - retained as it is.
Routes 7, 14, 23, 98, 414, 452:
23 - withdrawn.
7 - rerouted between Ladbroke Grove and Notting Hill via 23. To replace lost links on 23.
452 - diverted to Westbourne Park. To replace lost links on 23 and to reduce overbussing on Chamberlaine Road
98/414 - rerouted to operate between Hammersmith and Willesden via 23 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. 414 withdrawn, and 7 extended to Holborn as above.
14 - frequency increase
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 5, 2021 10:48:51 GMT
Routes 46, 603, 17: 46 - withdrawn between Paddington and Hampstead station, and City Thameslink and Bart's Hospital. Extended to Golders Green and London Bridge respectively. 603 - extended to Paddington via 46. To replace lost links on 46. Frequency will match the 46's frequency. 17 - withdrawn between City Thameslink and London Bridge. Rerouted to Bart's Hospital. Routes 21, 43, 271: 271 - extended to Elephant and Castle via 43 and 133. To link Highgate with south London 43 - cut back to Moorgate, replaced by 271. 21 - retained as it is. I'll focus on the things that I can comment on and those are the ones I've singled out from the rest of the group.
I do not understand the 21/43/271 changes. I do not understand where the demand is for South London from Highgate, we have the tube to Elephant & Castle.
The 43 provides a unique link from Upper Street/Angel/City Road down to London Bridge which I don't think should be broken. I understand the 43 is long but for the most part it is reliable. If you then put the 271 down to London Bridge along with the 21/141 you're probably going to find it'll be pretty vulnerable to cuts by that point because of the duplication with the 21 & 141 down to London Bridge and the 76 to Moorgate Station. If I had all the money in the world, I'd suggest a Shoreditch extension but that isn't looking likely and if we were looking for demands sake, I'd suggest a 271 cutback to Old Street rather than keeping it at Finsbury Square purely because the demand starts at Old Street (and quite a lot of it!)
Your 17/46/603 changes, again there is money being wasted here. Though the 46 is a very weird shape it matches demand throughout the route very well, an every 8 minute service on weekdays seems to suffice well. I do not see 8 minute demand up to Golders Green on the 268 currently, it matches an every 15 minute service well at the moment and though it is a quaint service it is great as a Park & Ride into Hampstead as lots of people park their cars by Golders Hill Park or in Golders Green. Certainly a well used service however on Mon-Fri peaks I would encourage an increase to x12 minutes as demand is quite high at school kickout time and wouldn't be uncommon to see bus full signs. What's the plan for the Belsize Village section of the 268, or the O2 Centre section? As I say really don't try to fix what ain't broken. The 603 again, demand is not representative of an 8 minute frequency north of Hampstead. At the moment the 603 carries decent loads but if turned into a daytime regular route I think you'd be better off running it at a x15/x20 minute frequency on 10.2m single deckers rather than an x8 minute frequency on 10.9m single deckers.
The 19 as well, come on. The 4/19 are both needed between Highbury & Islington & Finsbury Park. That corridor isn't exactly quiet and the Highbury & Islington stop that the 4/19/30/263 etc serve is one of those stops in London where you'll never find it quiet, there's always some sort of loading there. I have been an advocate of a cutback of the 263 from Highbury Barn, however it's mainly because Highbury Grove residents want Islington Green and Angel rather than the Holloway Road and you normally see residents let a 263 by for a 4 or 19 or 236.
I think it was uakari who bought this up, but one of the positives of the 143/263 changes would be a Highgate Village to Barnet/Whetstone link being created. The alternative option to your changes is withdrawing the 603, extending the 234 to Whitestone Pond via the 143 to Highgate Village, 214 to Gordon House Road, C11 to the Royal Free & Route 268 to Whitestone Pond. An every 12 minute frequency would suffice for the extension, and there are shorter buses so whilst I suggested it should be an x15/x20 on slighter longer ones, it could be an x12 on shorter ones. |
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Post by abellion on Dec 5, 2021 12:20:59 GMT
Euston Road corridor: 59 - extended to Chalk Farm via 168. To link Camden with Brixton. 68 - withdrawn between Euston and Aldwych. To reduce overbussing between Euston and Waterloo. 168 - withdrawn 27 - extended to Hampstead Heath via 168. To replace lost links on the 168 Routes 45, 57, 94, 148, 355, P4: Option 1: 94 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Piccadilly Circus. Rerouted to Victoria via 148. To replace lost links on 148 45 - extended to Marble Arch via 148. To replace lost links on 148 148 - withdrawn Option 2: 57 - extended to Brixton via 355 355 - rerouted between Clapham Park and Brixton via 45. To retain the link between Clapham Park and Brixton via the A23 45 - withdrawn between Brixton and Clapham Park. Extended from Elephant to King's Cross via previous routing. To link King's Cross and Brixton. Routes 19 and 22: 19 - withdrawn 22 - withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Rerouted to Holborn via 19. To maintain lost links on 19. Routes 11 and 211: 11 - extended to Hammersmith via 211. Revised to operate between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street 211 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 11. A few things I can comment on: 59 - Camden to Brixton can be done much faster by Victoria + Northern line, so why spend money on a link that already exists in a much faster form. The 1 replaces the majority of the 168 and is already being proposed to be extended anyway Getting rid of the 148 from Bayswater Road will put too much strain on the 94, having to deal with its current passengers + 148 passengers. Clapham Park - White City is pretty long so it might be better to just leave that area alone or maybe extend the 274? --- 57 to Brixton wouldn't be bad, but the 333/Streatham Hill routes would probably be faster if the 57 goes around Clapham Park. The 355 could be decked to match demand and everything else left as it is 45 to Kings X 'To link King's Cross and Brixton' - The 2 Brixton - KC routes were already cut. I remember people talking about this around 2 years ago in the old thread, but it seems like TfL would rather people use the Victoria Line --- Considering how it went last time it doesn't seem like King's Road routes will be messed with again. Especially extending the 11 when last time it was going to be split in half |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 5, 2021 12:25:19 GMT
Central London bus changes: Routes 17, 40, 45, 46, 63: Option 1: 40 extended to King's Cross via 63. 63 cut back to Clerkenwell Green. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell. Option 2: 40 withdrawn between Clerkenwell Green and City Thameslink station. Rerouted to King's Cross. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell (via Chancery Lane). The 63 already links Elephant and Clerkenwell, so could do without the 40 on this section (perhaps with a frequency increase though): Option 3: 17 withdrawn between Ludgate Circus and London Bridge. Rerouted to Elephant and Castle via route 45. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant (via Chancery Lane). 46 withdrawn between Holborn Circus and Bart's Hospital. Rerouted to London Bridge via 17, to replace the 17. The 63 stops near enough for people to walk to catch the bus to King's Cross. Euston Road corridor: 59 - extended to Chalk Farm via 168. To link Camden with Brixton. 68 - withdrawn between Euston and Aldwych. To reduce overbussing between Euston and Waterloo. 168 - withdrawn 27 - extended to Hampstead Heath via 168. To replace lost links on the 168 Routes 45, 57, 94, 148, 355, P4: Option 1: 94 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Piccadilly Circus. Rerouted to Victoria via 148. To replace lost links on 148 45 - extended to Marble Arch via 148. To replace lost links on 148 148 - withdrawn Option 2: 57 - extended to Brixton via 355 355 - rerouted between Clapham Park and Brixton via 45. To retain the link between Clapham Park and Brixton via the A23 45 - withdrawn between Brixton and Clapham Park. Extended from Elephant to King's Cross via previous routing. To link King's Cross and Brixton. P4 - extended from Brixton to Clapham Park either via 45 or 355. To retain the link from Clapham Park as far as Loughborough Junction. Routes 19 and 22: 19 - withdrawn 22 - withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Rerouted to Holborn via 19. To maintain lost links on 19. Routes 7, 14, 98 and 414: Option 1: 7 - extended to Holborn via 98. To maintain lost links on 98. Also withdrawn between Du Cane Road and Brunel Road and extended to Park Royal Asda via 260 98 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Holborn. Extended from Willesden to Wembley Park Asda via 302 and 83. To reduce the number of buses on Oxford Street and to link Wembley Park with Oxford Street Option 2: 7 - as above 98/414 - merged, revised to operate between Fulham Broadway and Willesden via 414 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. Renumbered 98 with the 414 withdrawn 14 - frequency increase Routes 11 and 211: 11 - extended to Hammersmith via 211. Revised to operate between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street 211 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 11. Routes 316 and 332: 316 - extended to Brent Park Tesco via 332. 332 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 316. To reduce overbussing on Kilburn High Road Routes 46, 603, 17: 46 - withdrawn between Paddington and Hampstead station, and City Thameslink and Bart's Hospital. Extended to Golders Green and London Bridge respectively. 603 - extended to Paddington via 46. To replace lost links on 46. Frequency will match the 46's frequency. 17 - withdrawn between City Thameslink and London Bridge. Rerouted to Bart's Hospital. Routes 21, 43, 271: 271 - extended to Elephant and Castle via 43 and 133. To link Highgate with south London 43 - cut back to Moorgate, replaced by 271. 21 - retained as it is. Routes 7, 14, 23, 98, 414, 452: 23 - withdrawn. 7 - rerouted between Ladbroke Grove and Notting Hill via 23. To replace lost links on 23. 452 - diverted to Westbourne Park. To replace lost links on 23 and to reduce overbussing on Chamberlaine Road 98/414 - rerouted to operate between Hammersmith and Willesden via 23 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. 414 withdrawn, and 7 extended to Holborn as above. 14 - frequency increase I’m afraid all of your options involving the Brixton routes are unworkable - the 59 extended to Hampstead Heath would add on unnecessary length & time to a route that is very important given it’s the only link from Brixton & Streatham to Waterloo and beyond. Meanwhile, cutting back the 68 makes little sense as well Using the 45 & 94 to replace the 148 would probably end up overbussing the overlap section especially given the 94 has a higher frequency. Not only that but it would likely break some through journeys across Central London especially given it avoids the worst of the traffic Your 57 & P4 ideas is wholly unworkable and breaks key links in the process. The 57 is too lengthy and bogged down by traffic at Streatham, Colliers Wood & Tooting Broadway to extend further whilst the 45 should not be withdrawn south of Brixton as it provides vital hospital access from Clapham Park & Streatham Place surgery to Kings College Hospital. The P4 also is a poor route to extend as it can hit heavy traffic in places and can even be unreliable at times - it also doesn’t serve Kings College and brings nothing particularly useful to Clapham Park or even Brixton Hill residents |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 5, 2021 12:30:54 GMT
Central London bus changes: Routes 17, 40, 45, 46, 63: Option 1: 40 extended to King's Cross via 63. 63 cut back to Clerkenwell Green. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell. Option 2: 40 withdrawn between Clerkenwell Green and City Thameslink station. Rerouted to King's Cross. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell (via Chancery Lane). The 63 already links Elephant and Clerkenwell, so could do without the 40 on this section (perhaps with a frequency increase though): Option 3: 17 withdrawn between Ludgate Circus and London Bridge. Rerouted to Elephant and Castle via route 45. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant (via Chancery Lane). 46 withdrawn between Holborn Circus and Bart's Hospital. Rerouted to London Bridge via 17, to replace the 17. The 63 stops near enough for people to walk to catch the bus to King's Cross. Euston Road corridor: 59 - extended to Chalk Farm via 168. To link Camden with Brixton. 68 - withdrawn between Euston and Aldwych. To reduce overbussing between Euston and Waterloo. 168 - withdrawn 27 - extended to Hampstead Heath via 168. To replace lost links on the 168 Routes 45, 57, 94, 148, 355, P4: Option 1: 94 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Piccadilly Circus. Rerouted to Victoria via 148. To replace lost links on 148 45 - extended to Marble Arch via 148. To replace lost links on 148 148 - withdrawn Option 2: 57 - extended to Brixton via 355 355 - rerouted between Clapham Park and Brixton via 45. To retain the link between Clapham Park and Brixton via the A23 45 - withdrawn between Brixton and Clapham Park. Extended from Elephant to King's Cross via previous routing. To link King's Cross and Brixton. P4 - extended from Brixton to Clapham Park either via 45 or 355. To retain the link from Clapham Park as far as Loughborough Junction. Routes 19 and 22: 19 - withdrawn 22 - withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Rerouted to Holborn via 19. To maintain lost links on 19. Routes 7, 14, 98 and 414: Option 1: 7 - extended to Holborn via 98. To maintain lost links on 98. Also withdrawn between Du Cane Road and Brunel Road and extended to Park Royal Asda via 260 98 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Holborn. Extended from Willesden to Wembley Park Asda via 302 and 83. To reduce the number of buses on Oxford Street and to link Wembley Park with Oxford Street Option 2: 7 - as above 98/414 - merged, revised to operate between Fulham Broadway and Willesden via 414 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. Renumbered 98 with the 414 withdrawn 14 - frequency increase Routes 11 and 211: 11 - extended to Hammersmith via 211. Revised to operate between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street 211 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 11. Routes 316 and 332: 316 - extended to Brent Park Tesco via 332. 332 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 316. To reduce overbussing on Kilburn High Road Routes 46, 603, 17: 46 - withdrawn between Paddington and Hampstead station, and City Thameslink and Bart's Hospital. Extended to Golders Green and London Bridge respectively. 603 - extended to Paddington via 46. To replace lost links on 46. Frequency will match the 46's frequency. 17 - withdrawn between City Thameslink and London Bridge. Rerouted to Bart's Hospital. Routes 21, 43, 271: 271 - extended to Elephant and Castle via 43 and 133. To link Highgate with south London 43 - cut back to Moorgate, replaced by 271. 21 - retained as it is. Routes 7, 14, 23, 98, 414, 452: 23 - withdrawn. 7 - rerouted between Ladbroke Grove and Notting Hill via 23. To replace lost links on 23. 452 - diverted to Westbourne Park. To replace lost links on 23 and to reduce overbussing on Chamberlaine Road 98/414 - rerouted to operate between Hammersmith and Willesden via 23 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. 414 withdrawn, and 7 extended to Holborn as above. 14 - frequency increase I’m afraid all of your options involving the Brixton routes are unworkable - the 59 extended to Hampstead Heath would add on unnecessary length & time to a route that is very important given it’s the only link from Brixton & Streatham to Waterloo and beyond. Meanwhile, cutting back the 68 makes little sense as well Using the 45 & 94 to replace the 148 would probably end up overbussing the overlap section especially given the 94 has a higher frequency. Not only that but it would likely break some through journeys across Central London especially given it avoids the worst of the traffic Your 57 & P4 ideas is wholly unworkable and breaks key links in the process. The 57 is too lengthy and bogged down by traffic at Streatham, Colliers Wood & Tooting Broadway to extend further whilst the 45 should not be withdrawn south of Brixton as it provides vital hospital access from Clapham Park & Streatham Place surgery to Kings College Hospital. The P4 also is a poor route to extend as it can hit heavy traffic in places and can even be unreliable at times - it also doesn’t serve Kings College and brings nothing particularly useful to Clapham Park or even Brixton Hill residents Would a 57 to Brixton be workable providing congestion is significantly reduced and extended directly via Brixton Hill? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 12:37:21 GMT
Euston Road corridor: 59 - extended to Chalk Farm via 168. To link Camden with Brixton. 68 - withdrawn between Euston and Aldwych. To reduce overbussing between Euston and Waterloo. 168 - withdrawn 27 - extended to Hampstead Heath via 168. To replace lost links on the 168 Routes 45, 57, 94, 148, 355, P4: Option 1: 94 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Piccadilly Circus. Rerouted to Victoria via 148. To replace lost links on 148 45 - extended to Marble Arch via 148. To replace lost links on 148 148 - withdrawn Option 2: 57 - extended to Brixton via 355 355 - rerouted between Clapham Park and Brixton via 45. To retain the link between Clapham Park and Brixton via the A23 45 - withdrawn between Brixton and Clapham Park. Extended from Elephant to King's Cross via previous routing. To link King's Cross and Brixton. Routes 19 and 22: 19 - withdrawn 22 - withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Rerouted to Holborn via 19. To maintain lost links on 19. Routes 11 and 211: 11 - extended to Hammersmith via 211. Revised to operate between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street 211 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 11. A few things I can comment on: 59 - Camden to Brixton can be done much faster by Victoria + Northern line, so why spend money on a link that already exists in a much faster form. The 1 replaces the majority of the 168 and is already being proposed to be extended anyway Getting rid of the 148 from Bayswater Road will put too much strain on the 94, having to deal with its current passengers + 148 passengers. Clapham Park - White City is pretty long so it might be better to just leave that area alone or maybe extend the 274? --- 57 to Brixton wouldn't be bad, but the 333/Streatham Hill routes would probably be faster if the 57 goes around Clapham Park. The 355 could be decked to match demand and everything else left as it is 45 to Kings X 'To link King's Cross and Brixton' - The 2 Brixton - KC routes were already cut. I remember people talking about this around 2 years ago in the old thread, but it seems like TfL would rather people use the Victoria Line --- Considering how it went last time it doesn't seem like King's Road routes will be messed with again. Especially extending the 11 when last time it was going to be split in half My 45 runs from Clapham Park to Marble Arch |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 12:40:09 GMT
Central London bus changes: Routes 17, 40, 45, 46, 63: Option 1: 40 extended to King's Cross via 63. 63 cut back to Clerkenwell Green. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell. Option 2: 40 withdrawn between Clerkenwell Green and City Thameslink station. Rerouted to King's Cross. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant/Camberwell (via Chancery Lane). The 63 already links Elephant and Clerkenwell, so could do without the 40 on this section (perhaps with a frequency increase though): Option 3: 17 withdrawn between Ludgate Circus and London Bridge. Rerouted to Elephant and Castle via route 45. To retain the link from King's Cross to Elephant (via Chancery Lane). 46 withdrawn between Holborn Circus and Bart's Hospital. Rerouted to London Bridge via 17, to replace the 17. The 63 stops near enough for people to walk to catch the bus to King's Cross. Euston Road corridor: 59 - extended to Chalk Farm via 168. To link Camden with Brixton. 68 - withdrawn between Euston and Aldwych. To reduce overbussing between Euston and Waterloo. 168 - withdrawn 27 - extended to Hampstead Heath via 168. To replace lost links on the 168 Routes 45, 57, 94, 148, 355, P4: Option 1: 94 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Piccadilly Circus. Rerouted to Victoria via 148. To replace lost links on 148 45 - extended to Marble Arch via 148. To replace lost links on 148 148 - withdrawn Option 2: 57 - extended to Brixton via 355 355 - rerouted between Clapham Park and Brixton via 45. To retain the link between Clapham Park and Brixton via the A23 45 - withdrawn between Brixton and Clapham Park. Extended from Elephant to King's Cross via previous routing. To link King's Cross and Brixton. P4 - extended from Brixton to Clapham Park either via 45 or 355. To retain the link from Clapham Park as far as Loughborough Junction. Routes 19 and 22: 19 - withdrawn 22 - withdrawn between Oxford Circus and Green Park. Rerouted to Holborn via 19. To maintain lost links on 19. Routes 7, 14, 98 and 414: Option 1: 7 - extended to Holborn via 98. To maintain lost links on 98. Also withdrawn between Du Cane Road and Brunel Road and extended to Park Royal Asda via 260 98 - withdrawn between Marble Arch and Holborn. Extended from Willesden to Wembley Park Asda via 302 and 83. To reduce the number of buses on Oxford Street and to link Wembley Park with Oxford Street Option 2: 7 - as above 98/414 - merged, revised to operate between Fulham Broadway and Willesden via 414 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. Renumbered 98 with the 414 withdrawn 14 - frequency increase Routes 11 and 211: 11 - extended to Hammersmith via 211. Revised to operate between Hammersmith and Liverpool Street 211 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 11. Routes 316 and 332: 316 - extended to Brent Park Tesco via 332. 332 - withdrawn, partially replaced by 316. To reduce overbussing on Kilburn High Road Routes 46, 603, 17: 46 - withdrawn between Paddington and Hampstead station, and City Thameslink and Bart's Hospital. Extended to Golders Green and London Bridge respectively. 603 - extended to Paddington via 46. To replace lost links on 46. Frequency will match the 46's frequency. 17 - withdrawn between City Thameslink and London Bridge. Rerouted to Bart's Hospital. Routes 21, 43, 271: 271 - extended to Elephant and Castle via 43 and 133. To link Highgate with south London 43 - cut back to Moorgate, replaced by 271. 21 - retained as it is. Routes 7, 14, 23, 98, 414, 452: 23 - withdrawn. 7 - rerouted between Ladbroke Grove and Notting Hill via 23. To replace lost links on 23. 452 - diverted to Westbourne Park. To replace lost links on 23 and to reduce overbussing on Chamberlaine Road 98/414 - rerouted to operate between Hammersmith and Willesden via 23 to Marble Arch and 98 to Willesden. 414 withdrawn, and 7 extended to Holborn as above. 14 - frequency increase I’m afraid all of your options involving the Brixton routes are unworkable - the 59 extended to Hampstead Heath would add on unnecessary length & time to a route that is very important given it’s the only link from Brixton & Streatham to Waterloo and beyond. Meanwhile, cutting back the 68 makes little sense as well Using the 45 & 94 to replace the 148 would probably end up overbussing the overlap section especially given the 94 has a higher frequency. Not only that but it would likely break some through journeys across Central London especially given it avoids the worst of the traffic Your 57 & P4 ideas is wholly unworkable and breaks key links in the process. The 57 is too lengthy and bogged down by traffic at Streatham, Colliers Wood & Tooting Broadway to extend further whilst the 45 should not be withdrawn south of Brixton as it provides vital hospital access from Clapham Park & Streatham Place surgery to Kings College Hospital. The P4 also is a poor route to extend as it can hit heavy traffic in places and can even be unreliable at times - it also doesn’t serve Kings College and brings nothing particularly useful to Clapham Park or even Brixton Hill residents The 59 and 27 changes were primarily to replace the 168, the 59 could be only extended as far as Camden which still provides a hopper fare connection to Hampstead heath via the 27 |
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