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Post by aaron1 on Dec 5, 2021 13:48:44 GMT
6,16,52,232,297,316,332,452,460,632,N98 changes
16 extend to Wembley Park ASDA via
52 withdrawn between Willesden Bus Garage and Strode Road then extend to Neasden shopping centre via 302 this would help the 302 as it get full very fast
232 withdrawn between St Raphael's and Brent Park Tesco so the route can be converted to double decker
297 extend to extend to Kensal Rise via 6 give new links like from Willesden Magistrates' Court to Willesden Sports Centre
316 extend to Brent Park Tesco via 332
332 extend to Paddington from north end from Brent park via 206 to Cranven park then via 18 to Royal Oak Station then via 36 to Westbourne Terrace where the route become a loop bus
460 option 1 extend to Haselden Jubilee Clock via 226 option extend to Barnet Hospital this on give Barnet Hospital and Golders Green a bus link
452 extend to Willesden Bus garage via 6 or withdrawn to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's so to let the 297 run there
632 becomes a daily route and extend to Mill Hill Broadway it would help out the 32 and 303
N98 rerouted via Willesden Green Station then via 226 to Wembley Park Station then via 79 passing Preston Road station to be it normal routing at Kingsbury
the reason for the rerouting is it follows the Jubilee Line from Stanmore to Bond Street but it miss route on 6 stops so it would give them a night link
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 5, 2021 15:40:15 GMT
After having a look at the previous posts, I feel that culling the Bakerloo Line is too extreme. What about some other cuts to outer extremities of tube lines, replaced by buses with lower capacities? Could some of the North-eastern Central line go? A lot of this is outside the GLA, so I'm surprised TfL haven't done something about this earlier. NEW BUS ROUTE X49: Epping Station - Station Road - High Street - (High Road - Theydon Road - Piercing Hill - Coppice Row) - Theydon Bois Station - (Abridge Road) - Abridge Market Place - London Road - (Abridge Road - Chigwell Lane) - Debden The Broadway - Burton Road - (Borders Lane - Alderton Hill) - Loughton Station - Old Station Road - (High Road) - Palmerston Road - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - (Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Hillside Avenue) - Woodford Station
EXTENSION TO BUS ROUTE 362:
From Whalebone Lane North: Romford Road - Lambourne Road - Manor Road - Grange Hill Station - Manford Way - Brocket Way - The Lowe - Hainault New North Road - Fencepiece Road - Hainault Road - Chigwell Station - Chigwell Rise - Roding Lane - Buckhurst Hill Station Victoria Road - Albert Road - Buckhurst Way - Roding Valley Station - Hillside Avenue - Woodford Station St Barnabas Road - Broadmead Road - Chigwell Road - George Lane - South Woodford Station
X49 - Every 12 minutes with 10.2m single decks. Express sections in brackets. No change to 362 vehicle type but frequency increased to every 20 minutes. 549 withdrawn. Central Line - All trains cut back to Woodford instead of continuing Epping-bound. There will still be 5 with-the-flow peak journeys on the Central Line from Epping Monday to Friday only. I live at the N.E.end of the central line, so thanks. Seriously Epping to Woodford is extremely busy, not just during peak times. Also the bus service in Loughton, Debden, Theydon Bois is shocking probably because of the central line, it would cause a lot of inconvenience if it was withdrawn and no new buses would make up for that. I presume the Bakerloo proposed closure is because it is on paper anyway superfluous. The Zone 1 section has plenty of alternative lines, the northern end has the overground alternative. But really this is Sadiq Kahn posturing to get more dosh out of Bojo, and well done Sadiq for threatening this, Bojo would never want this on his watch so it won't happen. If money has to be saved I'd slightly lower bus frequency on some routes in the evening. 6 buses per hour becoming 5, 5 becoming 4 etc. Thank you - really did not think it was particularly busy. I'm mentally slapping myself with a wet fish for this blunder of mine. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 5, 2021 16:15:18 GMT
I live at the N.E.end of the central line, so thanks. Seriously Epping to Woodford is extremely busy, not just during peak times. Also the bus service in Loughton, Debden, Theydon Bois is shocking probably because of the central line, it would cause a lot of inconvenience if it was withdrawn and no new buses would make up for that. I presume the Bakerloo proposed closure is because it is on paper anyway superfluous. The Zone 1 section has plenty of alternative lines, the northern end has the overground alternative. But really this is Sadiq Kahn posturing to get more dosh out of Bojo, and well done Sadiq for threatening this, Bojo would never want this on his watch so it won't happen. If money has to be saved I'd slightly lower bus frequency on some routes in the evening. 6 buses per hour becoming 5, 5 becoming 4 etc. Thank you - really did not think it was particularly busy. I'm mentally slapping myself with a wet fish for this blunder of mine. I suppose the commercial network being battered as well in Epping/Loughton/Harlow hasn't also helped matters in terms of crowding along that section. |
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Post by WH241 on Dec 5, 2021 16:19:59 GMT
I live at the N.E.end of the central line, so thanks. Seriously Epping to Woodford is extremely busy, not just during peak times. Also the bus service in Loughton, Debden, Theydon Bois is shocking probably because of the central line, it would cause a lot of inconvenience if it was withdrawn and no new buses would make up for that. I presume the Bakerloo proposed closure is because it is on paper anyway superfluous. The Zone 1 section has plenty of alternative lines, the northern end has the overground alternative. But really this is Sadiq Kahn posturing to get more dosh out of Bojo, and well done Sadiq for threatening this, Bojo would never want this on his watch so it won't happen. If money has to be saved I'd slightly lower bus frequency on some routes in the evening. 6 buses per hour becoming 5, 5 becoming 4 etc. Thank you - really did not think it was particularly busy. I'm mentally slapping myself with a wet fish for this blunder of mine. This is why local knowledge is better sometimes. There is a bias on occasions here towards east London especially with cuts mainly with buses but now tubes too. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 5, 2021 18:00:54 GMT
Routes 46, 603, 17: 46 - withdrawn between Paddington and Hampstead station, and City Thameslink and Bart's Hospital. Extended to Golders Green and London Bridge respectively. 603 - extended to Paddington via 46. To replace lost links on 46. Frequency will match the 46's frequency. 17 - withdrawn between City Thameslink and London Bridge. Rerouted to Bart's Hospital. Routes 21, 43, 271: 271 - extended to Elephant and Castle via 43 and 133. To link Highgate with south London 43 - cut back to Moorgate, replaced by 271. 21 - retained as it is. I'll focus on the things that I can comment on and those are the ones I've singled out from the rest of the group. I do not understand the 21/43/271 changes. I do not understand where the demand is for South London from Highgate, we have the tube to Elephant & Castle. The 43 provides a unique link from Upper Street/Angel/City Road down to London Bridge which I don't think should be broken. I understand the 43 is long but for the most part it is reliable. If you then put the 271 down to London Bridge along with the 21/141 you're probably going to find it'll be pretty vulnerable to cuts by that point because of the duplication with the 21 & 141 down to London Bridge and the 76 to Moorgate Station. If I had all the money in the world, I'd suggest a Shoreditch extension but that isn't looking likely and if we were looking for demands sake, I'd suggest a 271 cutback to Old Street rather than keeping it at Finsbury Square purely because the demand starts at Old Street (and quite a lot of it!) Your 17/46/603 changes, again there is money being wasted here. Though the 46 is a very weird shape it matches demand throughout the route very well, an every 8 minute service on weekdays seems to suffice well. I do not see 8 minute demand up to Golders Green on the 268 currently, it matches an every 15 minute service well at the moment and though it is a quaint service it is great as a Park & Ride into Hampstead as lots of people park their cars by Golders Hill Park or in Golders Green. Certainly a well used service however on Mon-Fri peaks I would encourage an increase to x12 minutes as demand is quite high at school kickout time and wouldn't be uncommon to see bus full signs. What's the plan for the Belsize Village section of the 268, or the O2 Centre section? As I say really don't try to fix what ain't broken. The 603 again, demand is not representative of an 8 minute frequency north of Hampstead. At the moment the 603 carries decent loads but if turned into a daytime regular route I think you'd be better off running it at a x15/x20 minute frequency on 10.2m single deckers rather than an x8 minute frequency on 10.9m single deckers. The 19 as well, come on. The 4/19 are both needed between Highbury & Islington & Finsbury Park. That corridor isn't exactly quiet and the Highbury & Islington stop that the 4/19/30/263 etc serve is one of those stops in London where you'll never find it quiet, there's always some sort of loading there. I have been an advocate of a cutback of the 263 from Highbury Barn, however it's mainly because Highbury Grove residents want Islington Green and Angel rather than the Holloway Road and you normally see residents let a 263 by for a 4 or 19 or 236. I think it was uakari who bought this up, but one of the positives of the 143/263 changes would be a Highgate Village to Barnet/Whetstone link being created. The alternative option to your changes is withdrawing the 603, extending the 234 to Whitestone Pond via the 143 to Highgate Village, 214 to Gordon House Road, C11 to the Royal Free & Route 268 to Whitestone Pond. An every 12 minute frequency would suffice for the extension, and there are shorter buses so whilst I suggested it should be an x15/x20 on slighter longer ones, it could be an x12 on shorter ones. It's pretty densely populated between Highbury and Finsbury Park and alot of people in the Barn area would need Highbury & Islington for the tube. |
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Post by rjbarrett5 on Dec 5, 2021 23:00:40 GMT
78: Extended to Homerton Hosp via 242. Gives South London a link to Dalston and Homerton.. This new route is surprisingly only about 12 miles.
242: withdrawn. The cuts on the route now make it an Overground rail replacement with a small extension to Aldgate. Even if a 78 extension to cover this is far fetched, i will not be surprised if this route is withdrawn.
414: withdrawn.
430: Extended to Marble Arch via 414.
New route 239: Elephant & Castle to Willesden Junc via Bakerloo line. Only if cuts are confirmed.
453: Curtailed to Oxford Circus.
23: complete restructuring from Hammersmith to Aldgate with an extension to Mile End. Provides a rare East-West link via in-danger H&C.
295: Extended to Westbourne Park garage.
9: Diverted at Green Park to Oxford Circus via 22. The link from Oxford Circus to Hammersmith restored and a new link to Mayfair.
22: Diverted to Aldwych via 9.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2021 5:26:15 GMT
78: Extended to Homerton Hosp via 242. Gives South London a link to Dalston and Homerton.. This new route is surprisingly only about 12 miles. 242: withdrawn. The cuts on the route now make it an Overground rail replacement with a small extension to Aldgate. Even if a 78 extension to cover this is far fetched, i will not be surprised if this route is withdrawn. 414: withdrawn. 430: Extended to Marble Arch via 414. New route 239: Elephant & Castle to Willesden Junc via Bakerloo line. Only if cuts are confirmed. 453: Curtailed to Oxford Circus. 23: complete restructuring from Hammersmith to Aldgate with an extension to Mile End. Provides a rare East-West link via in-danger H&C. 295: Extended to Westbourne Park garage. 9: Diverted at Green Park to Oxford Circus via 22. The link from Oxford Circus to Hammersmith restored and a new link to Mayfair. 22: Diverted to Aldwych via 9. Hammersmith to mile end is far too long even with the H&C closure. 295 doesn't need to go to Westbourne park |
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Post by abellion on Dec 6, 2021 8:02:08 GMT
A few things I can comment on: 59 - Camden to Brixton can be done much faster by Victoria + Northern line, so why spend money on a link that already exists in a much faster form. The 1 replaces the majority of the 168 and is already being proposed to be extended anyway Getting rid of the 148 from Bayswater Road will put too much strain on the 94, having to deal with its current passengers + 148 passengers. Clapham Park - White City is pretty long so it might be better to just leave that area alone or maybe extend the 274? --- 57 to Brixton wouldn't be bad, but the 333/Streatham Hill routes would probably be faster if the 57 goes around Clapham Park. The 355 could be decked to match demand and everything else left as it is 45 to Kings X 'To link King's Cross and Brixton' - The 2 Brixton - KC routes were already cut. I remember people talking about this around 2 years ago in the old thread, but it seems like TfL would rather people use the Victoria Line --- Considering how it went last time it doesn't seem like King's Road routes will be messed with again. Especially extending the 11 when last time it was going to be split in half My 45 runs from Clapham Park to Marble Arch Yeah, I meant if the 148 got withdrawn and the 45 only went to MA then the 94 might need another route along Bayswater Road with it |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 6, 2021 9:52:50 GMT
My 45 runs from Clapham Park to Marble Arch Yeah, I meant if the 148 got withdrawn and the 45 only went to MA then the 94 might need another route along Bayswater Road with it The 274 dosent, understandably carry much to Lancaster Gate so could be extended to Notting Hill Gate or even at a push to S Bush in replacent of down the line TFL looked at that corridor again. If the rumoured Putney changes go ahead then it looks like the 94 will be cutback from Piccadilly Circus and do still think the 94 will drop demand without the direct Oxford Circus link. |
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Post by M1104 on Dec 6, 2021 10:15:53 GMT
Would a 57 to Brixton be workable providing congestion is significantly reduced and extended directly via Brixton Hill? I reckon the 57 is good enough as it is as it's a long enough route from Kingston plus with all the regular congestion spots it deals with along the way the last thing it needs is to add the Brixton area situations on top, especially with the rephasing¹ of the traffic lights at Brixton Hill/Saint Matthew's Road....said to help reduce congestion into the town centre. Another factor is that the Brixton to Streatham stretch already has a good abundance of buses plus there'd be no stand space at Brixton anyway for another route (snapped up by the 109, 118, 250, 355, 432, etc) An N57 to Brixton could prove useful though, re-establishing a direct night link between Brixton and Tooting Broadway which the N133 use to do. ¹ - Brixton-bound lights turns green a good minute or so after the Streatham-bound set, yet all turn back red together |
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Post by greenboy on Dec 6, 2021 13:14:57 GMT
Yeah, I meant if the 148 got withdrawn and the 45 only went to MA then the 94 might need another route along Bayswater Road with it The 274 dosent, understandably carry much to Lancaster Gate so could be extended to Notting Hill Gate or even at a push to S Bush in replacent of down the line TFL looked at that corridor again. If the rumoured Putney changes go ahead then it looks like the 94 will be cutback from Piccadilly Circus and do still think the 94 will drop demand without the direct Oxford Circus link. I suspect that eventually the 274 will be extended to NHG and the 94 and 148 merged into one route. Ideally I thought the 159 should have been extended to NHG maintaining the link to Piccadilly Circus but clearly that's not going to happen now. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 6, 2021 17:29:40 GMT
Here's an idea:
Route N14: Night version of the 14. Of the 4bph on the service, 2bph would terminate at Putney Heath whilst 2bph would continue onto Sutton via Route (N)93 to North Cheam, Sainsbury's then via Route 213 to Sutton. Brings better night bus provision to Cheam Village and a direct Central London link into areas that the N93 serves. The route would run as Tottenham Court Road - Putney Heath/Sutton.
Route N93: Discontinued.
Thoughts?
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Post by greenboy on Dec 6, 2021 17:47:42 GMT
Here's an idea: Route N14: Night version of the 14. Of the 4bph on the service, 2bph would terminate at Putney Heath whilst 2bph would continue onto Sutton via Route (N)93 to North Cheam, Sainsbury's then via Route 213 to Sutton. Brings better night bus provision to Cheam Village and a direct Central London link into areas that the N93 serves. The route would run as Tottenham Court Road - Putney Heath/Sutton. Route N93: Discontinued. Thoughts? I agree and I'd run the other 2bph to Kingston replacing the N85. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 6, 2021 17:49:51 GMT
Here's an idea: Route N14: Night version of the 14. Of the 4bph on the service, 2bph would terminate at Putney Heath whilst 2bph would continue onto Sutton via Route (N)93 to North Cheam, Sainsbury's then via Route 213 to Sutton. Brings better night bus provision to Cheam Village and a direct Central London link into areas that the N93 serves. The route would run as Tottenham Court Road - Putney Heath/Sutton. Route N93: Discontinued. Thoughts? Cheam Village doesn’t really need a night service to central London, it’s a very small community and it is easy enough to take the N44 and change to the N213 directly through Sutton. In Morden the hope is that the N154 will resume on weekends at some point creating a further direct link though Morden to Sutton and again it would be an easy change to the N213 in Sutton. If an additional night service is needed in Cheam there is a far greater argument for the X26 to be 24 hour. It would be better used as well. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 6, 2021 17:50:43 GMT
Here's an idea: Route N14: Night version of the 14. Of the 4bph on the service, 2bph would terminate at Putney Heath whilst 2bph would continue onto Sutton via Route (N)93 to North Cheam, Sainsbury's then via Route 213 to Sutton. Brings better night bus provision to Cheam Village and a direct Central London link into areas that the N93 serves. The route would run as Tottenham Court Road - Putney Heath/Sutton. Route N93: Discontinued. Thoughts? With the low usage of the (N)213 I don't think it needs to run via Cheam to Sutton. I agree with the N14 and N93 merging thou particularly if the (N)14 cuts to Piccadilly Circus. |
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