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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 17, 2021 10:17:15 GMT
Iv thought the 333 could still work as a more local route from Stockwell to Tooting Broadway and leave the rest to the 133, 155 and 415. In reality most from Tooting don't go beyond Brixton and those from Streatham would still have the 133 to Elephant and Brixton the 133 and 415 to Elephant plus the 35 and 45 the other way. Those only lost link really would be Clapham Road to Brixton which I know could be popular
From a logistical point of view TFL are probably looking at how they can find some stand space at Elephant pulling route back from there is probably on their minds.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 17, 2021 10:35:06 GMT
Iv thought the 333 could still work as a more local route from Stockwell to Tooting Broadway and leave the rest to the 133, 155 and 415. In reality most from Tooting don't go beyond Brixton and those from Streatham would still have the 133 to Elephant and Brixton the 133 and 415 to Elephant plus the 35 and 45 the other way. Those only lost link really would be Clapham Road to Brixton which I know could be popular From a logistical point of view TFL are probably looking at how they can find some stand space at Elephant pulling route back from there is probably on their minds. That's why I suggested Kennington as a terminus to retain the Clapham Road to Brixton/Streatham link. As for stand space at Elephant & Castle as far as I'm aware the stand in Nabraska Street that the erstwhile 48 used is still in situ.
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Post by abellion on Dec 17, 2021 10:45:51 GMT
Iv thought the 333 could still work as a more local route from Stockwell to Tooting Broadway and leave the rest to the 133, 155 and 415. In reality most from Tooting don't go beyond Brixton and those from Streatham would still have the 133 to Elephant and Brixton the 133 and 415 to Elephant plus the 35 and 45 the other way. Those only lost link really would be Clapham Road to Brixton which I know could be popular From a logistical point of view TFL are probably looking at how they can find some stand space at Elephant pulling route back from there is probably on their minds. This wouldn't be a bad idea for saving money. I've used the corridor a lot and I can't say the 155/333 are particularly busy between Elephant and Stockwell, plus the 155 is faster to Tooting anyway (unless you live closer to Southcroft Road although like you said people probably don't go past Brixton). I imagine the spare stand would be used to curtail the 53
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 17, 2021 11:06:07 GMT
I'd agree with your statement that the A23 is one of the busiest bus corridors in London (and probably the UK) from Kennington to Streatham, but heading towards E&C the corridor definitely dies down from my experiences. I think the 415s extension breathed new life into it, certainly I wouldn't remove it nowadays, but I do notice the 333 does get pretty quiet between Kennington & Elephant whilst the 133/155 are obviously busier. To me as a non local I can respect that it's probably not as a broad view as someone who is local. Obviously the main attraction is the Victoria Line just like Seven Sisters is from the Hertford Road corridor and obviously rush hour volumes aren't quite what they once were. As I mentioned the 333 does give a useful round the corner link from Brixton Hill area to Stockwell and from Brixton to Clapham Road but it doesn't really need to go to Elephant & Castle hence my suggestion of extending the 118 as far as Kennington in replacement. There was a previous suggestion on here to withdraw the 415 and reroute the 3 to Elephant & Castle, I don't if that is a serious proposal. No offence to you but I know South London like the back of my hand and I don't really need advice from local 'experts'. 😂 I didn't intend on being a local expert, I do try and be fair to both sides but I do appreciate you and other users know South London like the backs of your hands and do have contrasting views so I do try and take a balanced view.
I didn't say the 333 should go to E&C, I said that it's quite quiet and I do think the 333 would probably be the least worst option to remove from the corridor on paper given that the 133/155/415 seem to carry more. I've also said before that when the 415 was introduced in 2008 it should've only gone as far as Kennington.
As for Brixton Hill, has it changed drastically within South London? I understand people are still WFH and I imagine whilst the conquer the Omicron Variant I imagine it'll continue but I wouldn't imagine it be hugely different because of wages and types of jobs. Maybe reductions could be made here and there but I don't know, would a route being removed altogether be a step too far?
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Post by greenboy on Dec 17, 2021 11:51:03 GMT
Obviously the main attraction is the Victoria Line just like Seven Sisters is from the Hertford Road corridor and obviously rush hour volumes aren't quite what they once were. As I mentioned the 333 does give a useful round the corner link from Brixton Hill area to Stockwell and from Brixton to Clapham Road but it doesn't really need to go to Elephant & Castle hence my suggestion of extending the 118 as far as Kennington in replacement. There was a previous suggestion on here to withdraw the 415 and reroute the 3 to Elephant & Castle, I don't if that is a serious proposal. No offence to you but I know South London like the back of my hand and I don't really need advice from local 'experts'. 😂 I didn't intend on being a local expert, I do try and be fair to both sides but I do appreciate you and other users know South London like the backs of your hands and do have contrasting views so I do try and take a balanced view.
I didn't say the 333 should go to E&C, I said that it's quite quiet and I do think the 333 would probably be the least worst option to remove from the corridor on paper given that the 133/155/415 seem to carry more. I've also said before that when the 415 was introduced in 2008 it should've only gone as far as Kennington.
As for Brixton Hill, has it changed drastically within South London? I understand people are still WFH and I imagine whilst the conquer the Omicron Variant I imagine it'll continue but I wouldn't imagine it be hugely different because of wages and types of jobs. Maybe reductions could be made here and there but I don't know, would a route being removed altogether be a step too far?
No that's fine I didn't mean it as a criticism of you, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 333 axed and if the 45 was extended to Tooting Broadway it would give more of Streatham a link to Camberwell and Kings College Hospital. If Brixton Hill was left under resourced the 319 could possibly be extended to Brixton or even reroute the 417 if the 57 is too long.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 17, 2021 12:46:32 GMT
Obviously the main attraction is the Victoria Line just like Seven Sisters is from the Hertford Road corridor and obviously rush hour volumes aren't quite what they once were. As I mentioned the 333 does give a useful round the corner link from Brixton Hill area to Stockwell and from Brixton to Clapham Road but it doesn't really need to go to Elephant & Castle hence my suggestion of extending the 118 as far as Kennington in replacement. There was a previous suggestion on here to withdraw the 415 and reroute the 3 to Elephant & Castle, I don't if that is a serious proposal. No offence to you but I know South London like the back of my hand and I don't really need advice from local 'experts'. 😂 I didn't intend on being a local expert, I do try and be fair to both sides but I do appreciate you and other users know South London like the backs of your hands and do have contrasting views so I do try and take a balanced view.
I didn't say the 333 should go to E&C, I said that it's quite quiet and I do think the 333 would probably be the least worst option to remove from the corridor on paper given that the 133/155/415 seem to carry more. I've also said before that when the 415 was introduced in 2008 it should've only gone as far as Kennington.
As for Brixton Hill, has it changed drastically within South London? I understand people are still WFH and I imagine whilst the conquer the Omicron Variant I imagine it'll continue but I wouldn't imagine it be hugely different because of wages and types of jobs. Maybe reductions could be made here and there but I don't know, would a route being removed altogether be a step too far?
He’s referring to me which yet again makes a mockery of his claim he can’t see my posts. His responses both past & present under this account and others shows he has no clue on my own area regardless of whether he has a clue about the rest of South London so he really shouldn’t be boasted. I’ve not called myself an expert however, locals will always know their area when it comes to this stuff better than others who don’t live in the area. Kennington isn’t a great terminus as it stops short of Elephant which is a major destination from South London. The 415’s original introduction was to introduce a link specifically from Tulse Hill Estate to Brixton Road and to maintain a second Elephant link along there whilst the 333 was diverted via Stockwell bringing a long awaited link from Brixton Hill to Stockwell. But what do I know - I’ve only lived in my area all my life and was sent the original leaflet through the door when the 415 was extended so if you wish to listen to a person who is only here to antagonise and have a silly agenda rather than sensible discussion, then that’s up to you
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Post by vjaska on Dec 17, 2021 12:47:03 GMT
The W8 has been double decker for a few decades now, was you thinking of the W9 which is single decker and shares a terminal with the W8 at Chase Farm Hospital? Must've been referring to the W9 then. Told you guys I was getting into unfamiliar territory! That’s ok, we all do it
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 17, 2021 13:02:16 GMT
I didn't intend on being a local expert, I do try and be fair to both sides but I do appreciate you and other users know South London like the backs of your hands and do have contrasting views so I do try and take a balanced view.
I didn't say the 333 should go to E&C, I said that it's quite quiet and I do think the 333 would probably be the least worst option to remove from the corridor on paper given that the 133/155/415 seem to carry more. I've also said before that when the 415 was introduced in 2008 it should've only gone as far as Kennington.
As for Brixton Hill, has it changed drastically within South London? I understand people are still WFH and I imagine whilst the conquer the Omicron Variant I imagine it'll continue but I wouldn't imagine it be hugely different because of wages and types of jobs. Maybe reductions could be made here and there but I don't know, would a route being removed altogether be a step too far?
He’s referring to me which yet again makes a mockery of his claim he can’t see my posts. His responses both past & present under this account and others shows he has no clue on my own area regardless of whether he has a clue about the rest of South London so he really shouldn’t be boasted. I’ve not called myself an expert however, locals will always know their area when it comes to this stuff better than others who don’t live in the area. Kennington isn’t a great terminus as it stops short of Elephant which is a major destination from South London. The 415’s original introduction was to introduce a link specifically from Tulse Hill Estate to Brixton Road and to maintain a second Elephant link along there whilst the 333 was diverted via Stockwell bringing a long awaited link from Brixton Hill to Stockwell. But what do I know - I’ve only lived in my area all my life and was sent the original leaflet through the door when the 415 was extended so if you wish to listen to a person who is only here to antagonise and have a silly agenda rather than sensible discussion, then that’s up to you I didn't disagree with you though on the 415, the capacity was needed up Tulse Hill (you could tell with the crowds that build up outside Brixton Station going southbound) & along the Brixton Road (Vassall and Myatts Field are densely populated areas) to replace the capacity lost with the rerouting of the 333 but I didn't quite understand the need for another route between Kennington & E&C, that's all. And I believe you have mentioned it's introduction before whereby it was introduced to link the Tulse Hill Estates with Kennington & Oval but as you say, E&C is a major terminus so I'd probably agree with you that it is a major destination for South Londoners (like the Tulse Hill Estate residents would gain a link to).
I'm very happy to listen to both sides opinions however to be fair.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 17, 2021 17:28:35 GMT
He’s referring to me which yet again makes a mockery of his claim he can’t see my posts. His responses both past & present under this account and others shows he has no clue on my own area regardless of whether he has a clue about the rest of South London so he really shouldn’t be boasted. I’ve not called myself an expert however, locals will always know their area when it comes to this stuff better than others who don’t live in the area. Kennington isn’t a great terminus as it stops short of Elephant which is a major destination from South London. The 415’s original introduction was to introduce a link specifically from Tulse Hill Estate to Brixton Road and to maintain a second Elephant link along there whilst the 333 was diverted via Stockwell bringing a long awaited link from Brixton Hill to Stockwell. But what do I know - I’ve only lived in my area all my life and was sent the original leaflet through the door when the 415 was extended so if you wish to listen to a person who is only here to antagonise and have a silly agenda rather than sensible discussion, then that’s up to you I didn't disagree with you though on the 415, the capacity was needed up Tulse Hill (you could tell with the crowds that build up outside Brixton Station going southbound) & along the Brixton Road (Vassall and Myatts Field are densely populated areas) to replace the capacity lost with the rerouting of the 333 but I didn't quite understand the need for another route between Kennington & E&C, that's all. And I believe you have mentioned it's introduction before whereby it was introduced to link the Tulse Hill Estates with Kennington & Oval but as you say, E&C is a major terminus so I'd probably agree with you that it is a major destination for South Londoners (like the Tulse Hill Estate residents would gain a link to).
I'm very happy to listen to both sides opinions however to be fair.
The criticism was more aimed at the other one - as I've said before many times, there are localised links that only a local would know more about just there are links around Finchley/Highgate, etc that you would know about and that I wouldn't. Imagine if I wondered up to your neck of the woods and started telling you this is this and that is that, you would have every right to tell me to jog on, just like a few of our Edgware members told him before he has no idea what he is talking about when it came to 'proposals' in that area - better to ask questions and let the locals inform the person me thinks.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 17, 2021 17:52:05 GMT
I didn't disagree with you though on the 415, the capacity was needed up Tulse Hill (you could tell with the crowds that build up outside Brixton Station going southbound) & along the Brixton Road (Vassall and Myatts Field are densely populated areas) to replace the capacity lost with the rerouting of the 333 but I didn't quite understand the need for another route between Kennington & E&C, that's all. And I believe you have mentioned it's introduction before whereby it was introduced to link the Tulse Hill Estates with Kennington & Oval but as you say, E&C is a major terminus so I'd probably agree with you that it is a major destination for South Londoners (like the Tulse Hill Estate residents would gain a link to).
I'm very happy to listen to both sides opinions however to be fair.
The criticism was more aimed at the other one - as I've said before many times, there are localised links that only a local would know more about just there are links around Finchley/Highgate, etc that you would know about and that I wouldn't. Imagine if I wondered up to your neck of the woods and started telling you this is this and that is that, you would have every right to tell me to jog on, just like a few of our Edgware members told him before he has no idea what he is talking about when it came to 'proposals' in that area - better to ask questions and let the locals inform the person me thinks. I think providing whoever suggests the idea listens I think they have every right to suggest what they wish to providing they listen to what people say in response. Edgware is an interesting one as I remember reading through the 125/303/305 thread and thinking that everything seemed to be quite positive over the 303/305 changes yet locals completely disproved people's opinions and as a result you do learn more.
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Post by YX10FFN on Dec 17, 2021 18:12:38 GMT
The criticism was more aimed at the other one - as I've said before many times, there are localised links that only a local would know more about just there are links around Finchley/Highgate, etc that you would know about and that I wouldn't. Imagine if I wondered up to your neck of the woods and started telling you this is this and that is that, you would have every right to tell me to jog on, just like a few of our Edgware members told him before he has no idea what he is talking about when it came to 'proposals' in that area - better to ask questions and let the locals inform the person me thinks. I think providing whoever suggests the idea listens I think they have every right to suggest what they wish to providing they listen to what people say in response. Edgware is an interesting one as I remember reading through the 125/303/305 thread and thinking that everything seemed to be quite positive over the 303/305 changes yet locals completely disproved people's opinions and as a result you do learn more. Despite not having across the board positivity there were still a number of positive remarks made about the 110/391 proposal when it came out, hate to keep sounding like a broken record but in practice the 110 is heavily unreliable and so indirect that a number of new links it created (such as Hanworth Road-St Margarets and Whitton-Chiswick) are just not worth it for most passengers given the delays it suffers.
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Post by barrypotter on Dec 18, 2021 13:07:28 GMT
The W8 has been double decker for a few decades now, was you thinking of the W9 which is single decker and shares a terminal with the W8 at Chase Farm Hospital? For a short while in 2003, whilst the road beneath the railway at Edmonton Green was being lowered, single decks were used. I think W8 is still on the blinds,but will check later. Just to bring a bit of closure, for instance, DEM 1914 has W8, 125 and 231 on the blinds, so without checking, they probably all have.(Not going to check them all).
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 18, 2021 13:59:56 GMT
For a short while in 2003, whilst the road beneath the railway at Edmonton Green was being lowered, single decks were used. I think W8 is still on the blinds,but will check later. Just to bring a bit of closure, for instance, DEM 1914 has W8, 125 and 231 on the blinds, so without checking, they probably all have.(Not going to check them all). Ditto DEM1918
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js11
Cleaner
Posts: 24
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Post by js11 on Dec 18, 2021 19:28:52 GMT
Route 115 could be withdrawn and 15 extended to Canning Town, Hermit Road and instead of 330 going to North Woolwich, extend it to Poplar or Canary Wharf.
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Post by TB123 on Dec 18, 2021 19:32:27 GMT
Route 115 could be withdrawn and 15 extended to Canning Town, Hermit Road and instead of 330 going to North Woolwich, extend it to Poplar or Canary Wharf. There was an active proposal for years and years to extend the 330 to Canary Wharf, starting in about 2007 I think, but the recession of 2007/2008 meant many developments along the route and indeed in lots of places took longer to come on stream than otherwise envisaged or developers really tightened up on commitments like S106 (local infrastructure, buses and more) or affordable housing provision. S106 contributions would have funded the extra PVR for it. By the time things had picked up, the travel patterns had evolved and the idea wasn't taken forward when they reviewed the whole area network in 2014/2015.
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