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Post by cl54 on Dec 22, 2021 13:40:38 GMT
and there is not a turn/stand space at Trafalgar Square from the south. Last stop would have to be Horse Guards as before. How did the 3 terminate at TSQ then? The road layout means that it could only turn back into Whitehall without any stand space.
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Post by busman on Dec 22, 2021 14:51:43 GMT
E1: Extended to Yeading White Hart .3 buses on Geeenford Avenue all of which terminate in Greenford OR Withdraw E8 and extend E1 to Teading . Divert E10 via Pitshanger Lane to compensate. Section between Argyle Road and Eakung Bdwy doesn't need 2 routes I meant withdraw E9 What benefit would that bring to passengers or TfL? The E1 and E9 take entirely different routes between Ealing Broadway and Greenford, so cannot be substituted like for like. As for diverting the E10, it connects Greenford to unique parts of Ealing. Why break those links? Going towards Ealing, it’s handy to have buses starting from Greenford so there is enough capacity to mop up all passengers heading towards Ealing. In saying that, I imagine the crowds boarding in the morning peak aren’t what they used to be and I’m not sure if they will return. If you’re going to remove the E9, the logical replacement is an extension to the E2. But that could also bring challenges in terms of running an even frequency across the whole route that meets demand in each section (Yeading to Greenford/Greenford to Ealing/Ealing to Brentford).
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Post by YX10FFN on Dec 22, 2021 15:24:27 GMT
What benefit would that bring to passengers or TfL? The E1 and E9 take entirely different routes between Ealing Broadway and Greenford, so cannot be substituted like for like. As for diverting the E10, it connects Greenford to unique parts of Ealing. Why break those links? Going towards Ealing, it’s handy to have buses starting from Greenford so there is enough capacity to mop up all passengers heading towards Ealing. In saying that, I imagine the crowds boarding in the morning peak aren’t what they used to be and I’m not sure if they will return. If you’re going to remove the E9, the logical replacement is an extension to the E2. But that could also bring challenges in terms of running an even frequency across the whole route that meets demand in each section (Yeading to Greenford/Greenford to Ealing/Ealing to Brentford). Extending the E2 is not the solution imo, as you noted it would be difficult to maintain frequency if it went in the Yeading direction, also exposing it to more traffic on an already traffic hampered route. It struggles with heavy demand particularly in the southern section, and this plan would decrease capacity in Pitshanger, putting even more pressure on the E2. On the flipside I'd actually be in favour of extending the E9, over in the Acton direction. The Greenford branch not going any further east than West Ealing these days means there's a bit of a gap in direct transport between those areas. Would either go to Acton Town Centre or possibly further to Acton Vale to get a link to Acton Central.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Dec 22, 2021 16:01:44 GMT
What benefit would that bring to passengers or TfL? The E1 and E9 take entirely different routes between Ealing Broadway and Greenford, so cannot be substituted like for like. As for diverting the E10, it connects Greenford to unique parts of Ealing. Why break those links? Going towards Ealing, it’s handy to have buses starting from Greenford so there is enough capacity to mop up all passengers heading towards Ealing. In saying that, I imagine the crowds boarding in the morning peak aren’t what they used to be and I’m not sure if they will return. If you’re going to remove the E9, the logical replacement is an extension to the E2. But that could also bring challenges in terms of running an even frequency across the whole route that meets demand in each section (Yeading to Greenford/Greenford to Ealing/Ealing to Brentford). Extending the E2 is not the solution imo, as you noted it would be difficult to maintain frequency if it went in the Yeading direction, also exposing it to more traffic on an already traffic hampered route. It struggles with heavy demand particularly in the southern section, and this plan would decrease capacity in Pitshanger, putting even more pressure on the E2. On the flipside I'd actually be in favour of extending the E9, over in the Acton direction. The Greenford branch not going any further east than West Ealing these days means there's a bit of a gap in direct transport between those areas. Would either go to Acton Town Centre or possibly further to Acton Vale to get a link to Acton Central. I went to Acton yesterday and a bus came for me within 1 minute both from the station to the high street and then back from Morrisons to the station. So, on that note, is there a chance you would overbus some corridors with that. However, if the 427 cut back goes ahead, I'd most certainly be in favour of your proposals. If the E1 is extended to Osterley, I would instead extend the 306 to Ealing, providing a link further to Hammersmith for those that don't want to use the District line.
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Post by YX10FFN on Dec 22, 2021 16:18:28 GMT
Extending the E2 is not the solution imo, as you noted it would be difficult to maintain frequency if it went in the Yeading direction, also exposing it to more traffic on an already traffic hampered route. It struggles with heavy demand particularly in the southern section, and this plan would decrease capacity in Pitshanger, putting even more pressure on the E2. On the flipside I'd actually be in favour of extending the E9, over in the Acton direction. The Greenford branch not going any further east than West Ealing these days means there's a bit of a gap in direct transport between those areas. Would either go to Acton Town Centre or possibly further to Acton Vale to get a link to Acton Central. I went to Acton yesterday and a bus came for me within 1 minute both from the station to the high street and then back from Morrisons to the station. So, on that note, is there a chance you would overbus some corridors with that. However, if the 427 cut back goes ahead, I'd most certainly be in favour of your proposals. If the E1 is extended to Osterley, I would instead extend the 306 to Ealing, providing a link further to Hammersmith for those that don't want to use the District line. Its only a short stretch of the corridor so I wouldn't worry about overbussing. Plus the reason its there is to provide new links.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 22, 2021 16:20:33 GMT
What benefit would that bring to passengers or TfL? The E1 and E9 take entirely different routes between Ealing Broadway and Greenford, so cannot be substituted like for like. As for diverting the E10, it connects Greenford to unique parts of Ealing. Why break those links? Going towards Ealing, it’s handy to have buses starting from Greenford so there is enough capacity to mop up all passengers heading towards Ealing. In saying that, I imagine the crowds boarding in the morning peak aren’t what they used to be and I’m not sure if they will return. If you’re going to remove the E9, the logical replacement is an extension to the E2. But that could also bring challenges in terms of running an even frequency across the whole route that meets demand in each section (Yeading to Greenford/Greenford to Ealing/Ealing to Brentford). Extending the E2 is not the solution imo, as you noted it would be difficult to maintain frequency if it went in the Yeading direction, also exposing it to more traffic on an already traffic hampered route. It struggles with heavy demand particularly in the southern section, and this plan would decrease capacity in Pitshanger, putting even more pressure on the E2. On the flipside I'd actually be in favour of extending the E9, over in the Acton direction. The Greenford branch not going any further east than West Ealing these days means there's a bit of a gap in direct transport between those areas. Would either go to Acton Town Centre or possibly further to Acton Vale to get a link to Acton Central. Could even continue onto Turnham Green Church or Stamford Brook Bus Garage via Beaconsfield Road & Chiswick High Road.
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Post by dommci on Dec 22, 2021 16:20:52 GMT
Some route proposals for West London: 207 extended from Hayes-By-Pass to Hayes Sainsbury's with a new stand made by the U7 terminus. This is to provide a link with the retail park, to the 607 at The Grapes and to the buses to Hayes and Harlington. If the reliability allows it, an extension to Hayes & Harlington via Coldharbour Lane could be achievable, with an extra stand being created by the 350 Hayes ASDA terminus. This is to create links with many buses at Hayes and Harlington as well as Crossrail 427 rerouted to terminate at North Acton via Horn Lane. This is to create links to Crossrail at Acton Main Line as well as create a bus link to Acton Main Line and North Acton from Ealing Broadway and Uxbridge Road. New bus 82 (random not currently existing bus number, could be anything else) Ealing Broadway to Wimbledon -Uxbridge Road -Gunnersbury Avenue -A315 (Chiswick High Road, King Street, Studland Street, Glenthorne Road) -Hammersmith Bus Station -A219 (Fulham Palace Road, Fulham High Street, Putney Bridge Approach, Putney High Street) -Upper Richmond Road -A3 (West Hill, Armoury Way, Ram Street, Wandsworth High Street) -A218 (Buckhold Road, Merton Road) -Granville Road -Wimbledon Park Road -Church Road -A219 (High Street, High Street Wimbledon, Wimbledon Hill Road, The Broadway) This is to provide new links from Ealing to Chiswick, Hammersmith, Fulham, Putney, Wandsworth and Wimbledon. Currently, a journey from Ealing to any of these places cannot be done directly (by bus of course). Ealing and the areas it will connect will all benefit from this route. It will be operated by Double Deckers. An additional N82 bus will operate past Wimbledon to Sutton via Morden following 93 to Morden, looping by the station, and continuing following the 164 route to Sutton. Let me know what you think about my proposals and whether you think there is anything I could improve on to make this scenario more realistic. I don't think there would be demand for a bus from Ealing/Chiswick to Wandsworth/Wimbledon. Plus going via Wandsworth subjects it to terrible traffic on Putney High Street and Wandsworth High Street when the 93 quickly cuts through Putney Heath. Maybe an Ealing - Fulham route to create a link between Fulham and Ealing/Chiswick and Hammersmith to Ealing which don't exist currently, I think that would work better You could make a route to Fulham and it could possibly go a bit further to terminate at Clapham Junction to make a new link, but I am more focused on the 207/427 extensions as they seem like more realistic plans - especially with Crossrail coming around.
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Post by busman on Dec 22, 2021 17:36:08 GMT
What benefit would that bring to passengers or TfL? The E1 and E9 take entirely different routes between Ealing Broadway and Greenford, so cannot be substituted like for like. As for diverting the E10, it connects Greenford to unique parts of Ealing. Why break those links? Going towards Ealing, it’s handy to have buses starting from Greenford so there is enough capacity to mop up all passengers heading towards Ealing. In saying that, I imagine the crowds boarding in the morning peak aren’t what they used to be and I’m not sure if they will return. If you’re going to remove the E9, the logical replacement is an extension to the E2. But that could also bring challenges in terms of running an even frequency across the whole route that meets demand in each section (Yeading to Greenford/Greenford to Ealing/Ealing to Brentford). Extending the E2 is not the solution imo, as you noted it would be difficult to maintain frequency if it went in the Yeading direction, also exposing it to more traffic on an already traffic hampered route. It struggles with heavy demand particularly in the southern section, and this plan would decrease capacity in Pitshanger, putting even more pressure on the E2. On the flipside I'd actually be in favour of extending the E9, over in the Acton direction. The Greenford branch not going any further east than West Ealing these days means there's a bit of a gap in direct transport between those areas. Would either go to Acton Town Centre or possibly further to Acton Vale to get a link to Acton Central. It really isn’t difficult to get from Greenford to Acton. Use the 95, E3 or get to Ealing Hospital, West Ealing or Ealing Broadway for a 207/427/607. There is also the central and district lines available. I’m looking at this through the lens of a skint TfL who do not have money to spend on new links unless it’s cost neutral or saves money. In this case, perhaps best to leave the Greenford network as it is. Not sure if the E1 extension has been budgeted for, but that would be a welcome addition, as it truly provides some unique links for Greenford and Ealing. Still no connections into West Middlesex Hospital though.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 22, 2021 18:17:41 GMT
I know TFL are having somesort of funding issues at the moment but i think they should start introducing more Express/Limited Stop Routes on busy routes like they have with 140 and 207/427 so i came up with these ideas. New Express/Limited Stop Routes: X86: Romford Station - Aldgate via 86 and 25 X149: Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross via 149 and 279 653: Aldgate - Eustion via 253 and 254. These are some of the Express routes i can think of at the top of my head and i know some of these are abit controversial but i'd still like to know your thoughts. I cannot see any of these routes happening even before the pandemic.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 22, 2021 18:38:34 GMT
Extending the E2 is not the solution imo, as you noted it would be difficult to maintain frequency if it went in the Yeading direction, also exposing it to more traffic on an already traffic hampered route. It struggles with heavy demand particularly in the southern section, and this plan would decrease capacity in Pitshanger, putting even more pressure on the E2. On the flipside I'd actually be in favour of extending the E9, over in the Acton direction. The Greenford branch not going any further east than West Ealing these days means there's a bit of a gap in direct transport between those areas. Would either go to Acton Town Centre or possibly further to Acton Vale to get a link to Acton Central. It really isn’t difficult to get from Greenford to Acton. Use the 95, E3 or get to Ealing Hospital, West Ealing or Ealing Broadway for a 207/427/607. There is also the central and district lines available. I’m looking at this through the lens of a skint TfL who do not have money to spend on new links unless it’s cost neutral or saves money. In this case, perhaps best to leave the Greenford network as it is. Not sure if the E1 extension has been budgeted for, but that would be a welcome addition, as it truly provides some unique links for Greenford and Ealing. Still no connections into West Middlesex Hospital though. Would the E2 be a better option for West Middlesex Hospital if Ealing required a link to it? I do think because of Three Bridges and how buses can't pass over it has likely been a contributing factor into why that part of Ealing has no links into South West London and probably why the 120 gets so busy.
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 22, 2021 18:44:59 GMT
I know TFL are having somesort of funding issues at the moment but i think they should start introducing more Express/Limited Stop Routes on busy routes like they have with 140 and 207/427 so i came up with these ideas. New Express/Limited Stop Routes: X86: Romford Station - Aldgate via 86 and 25 X149: Liverpool Street - Waltham Cross via 149 and 279 653: Aldgate - Eustion via 253 and 254. These are some of the Express routes i can think of at the top of my head and i know some of these are abit controversial but i'd still like to know your thoughts. I cannot see any of these routes happening even before the pandemic. How so? (I already know many peoples thoguhts on X86 with Crossrail supposedly starting next year but mainly what about the other two?)
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 22, 2021 19:51:21 GMT
I cannot see any of these routes happening even before the pandemic. How so? (I already know many peoples thoguhts on X86 with Crossrail supposedly starting next year but mainly what about the other two?) The X253 I explained already why it wouldn't be viable and as a local to the service I do think some people underestimate that whilst the 253 doesn't experience too much in the way of traffic other than in Hackney, odd traffic in Camden & coming out of Euston the 254 definitely experiences more and I doubt it has been helped with the Cycle Superhighway along the A11. Services along the X253 corridor have already seen reductions being the 29, 38, 48 being removed, 106, 253, 254, could be a few more but can't remember them off the top of my head.
As for the X149 I have no comment but can't see that being viable given how bogged down the A10 can be.
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Post by busman on Dec 22, 2021 20:02:51 GMT
It really isn’t difficult to get from Greenford to Acton. Use the 95, E3 or get to Ealing Hospital, West Ealing or Ealing Broadway for a 207/427/607. There is also the central and district lines available. I’m looking at this through the lens of a skint TfL who do not have money to spend on new links unless it’s cost neutral or saves money. In this case, perhaps best to leave the Greenford network as it is. Not sure if the E1 extension has been budgeted for, but that would be a welcome addition, as it truly provides some unique links for Greenford and Ealing. Still no connections into West Middlesex Hospital though. Would the E2 be a better option for West Middlesex Hospital if Ealing required a link to it? I do think because of Three Bridges and how buses can't pass over it has likely been a contributing factor into why that part of Ealing has no links into South West London and probably why the 120 gets so busy.
The E8 was supposed to run via West Middlesex Hospital en-route to Hounslow but that didn’t happen (I can’t recall why…I think it was related to deckers running via Amhurst Gardens?). I think there would need to be enough stand space at West Middlesex Hospital to accommodate another route. The less frequent 195 would be easier to accommodate than the E2.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 22, 2021 20:50:01 GMT
I cannot see any of these routes happening even before the pandemic. How so? (I already know many peoples thoguhts on X86 with Crossrail supposedly starting next year but mainly what about the other two?) X253 simply would have many of the so called clientele arguing to stop a the normal stops to get off, slowing the service down or pressing the emergency door buttons. Seeing buses running light on line of route on the 253/254 there would not be much to be gained on certain sections. Similar case for the X149, and even worse the London Overground does a lot of the 149 from Liverpool St meeting back at Stoke Newington, Seven Sisters, White Hart Lane, Silver St, Edmonton Green etc.
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 22, 2021 22:48:46 GMT
How so? (I already know many peoples thoguhts on X86 with Crossrail supposedly starting next year but mainly what about the other two?) The X253 I explained already why it wouldn't be viable and as a local to the service I do think some people underestimate that whilst the 253 doesn't experience too much in the way of traffic other than in Hackney, odd traffic in Camden & coming out of Euston the 254 definitely experiences more and I doubt it has been helped with the Cycle Superhighway along the A11. Services along the X253 corridor have already seen reductions being the 29, 38, 48 being removed, 106, 253, 254, could be a few more but can't remember them off the top of my head.
As for the X149 I have no comment but can't see that being viable given how bogged down the A10 can be.
It's true that there could be potential traffic problems mainly around Hackney and Whitechapel Road, but i imagine 653 would go down Pembury Road to avoid Lower Clapton Road although, Amhurst Road can still have quiet abit of cogestion. About 653 corridors being reduced, 29, 38, 253 and 254 reductions were part of the 300pvr cut for Central London Routes. And i believe the purpose of that was for TFL to save money, i could be wrong. So it isn't because those routes are getting lower usage, after all, 29 was in 3rd place of the most busiest routes in London this year with 253 and 254 being in the top 15 and those are the routes 653 will mostly cover. Fair enough on X149.
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