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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 22, 2021 23:01:20 GMT
How so? (I already know many peoples thoguhts on X86 with Crossrail supposedly starting next year but mainly what about the other two?) X253 simply would have many of the so called clientele arguing to stop a the normal stops to get off, slowing the service down or pressing the emergency door buttons. Seeing buses running light on line of route on the 253/254 there would not be much to be gained on certain sections. Similar case for the X149, and even worse the London Overground does a lot of the 149 from Liverpool St meeting back at Stoke Newington, Seven Sisters, White Hart Lane, Silver St, Edmonton Green etc. Basically Express/Limited Stop Routes in a nutshell. That arguement could be used aganist any Express/Limited Stop route in London. It's been over 30 years since the 607 was introduced so locals would know which stops 607 serves but i can imagine when this route started operating people would also argue at the drivers to stop at normal stops. For X140, i remember someone on this forum saying how people confused X140 for 140 when i was first introduced and then argue when the driver didn't stop at a normal bus stop. Fair point for X149 about the Overground. Also, where did X253 come from?😂
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 22, 2021 23:18:59 GMT
The X253 I explained already why it wouldn't be viable and as a local to the service I do think some people underestimate that whilst the 253 doesn't experience too much in the way of traffic other than in Hackney, odd traffic in Camden & coming out of Euston the 254 definitely experiences more and I doubt it has been helped with the Cycle Superhighway along the A11. Services along the X253 corridor have already seen reductions being the 29, 38, 48 being removed, 106, 253, 254, could be a few more but can't remember them off the top of my head.
As for the X149 I have no comment but can't see that being viable given how bogged down the A10 can be.
It's true that there could be potential traffic problems mainly around Hackney and Whitechapel Road, but i imagine 653 would go down Pembury Road to avoid Lower Clapton Road although, Amhurst Road can still have quiet abit of cogestion. About 653 corridors being reduced, 29, 38, 253 and 254 reductions were part of the 300pvr cut for Central London Routes. And i believe the purpose of that was for TFL to save money, i could be wrong. So it isn't because those routes are getting lower usage, after all, 29 was in 3rd place of the most busiest routes in London this year with 253 and 254 being in the top 15 and those are the routes 653 will mostly cover. Fair enough on X149. You would then overbus Pembury Road which AFAIK copes fine with just the 56 and I'd imagine a link to Homerton Hospital would be more attractive than a link.to Aldgate but again could be wrong. The issue with your statement RE the 29, 38, 253, 254 etc is unfortunately that, the X253 (I'm not calling it 653 because that's a school bus in North London) the X253 will ultimately enter Central London.
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 23, 2021 0:24:17 GMT
It's true that there could be potential traffic problems mainly around Hackney and Whitechapel Road, but i imagine 653 would go down Pembury Road to avoid Lower Clapton Road although, Amhurst Road can still have quiet abit of cogestion. About 653 corridors being reduced, 29, 38, 253 and 254 reductions were part of the 300pvr cut for Central London Routes. And i believe the purpose of that was for TFL to save money, i could be wrong. So it isn't because those routes are getting lower usage, after all, 29 was in 3rd place of the most busiest routes in London this year with 253 and 254 being in the top 15 and those are the routes 653 will mostly cover. Fair enough on X149. You would then overbus Pembury Road which AFAIK copes fine with just the 56 and I'd imagine a link to Homerton Hospital would be more attractive than a link.to Aldgate but again could be wrong. The issue with your statement RE the 29, 38, 253, 254 etc is unfortunately that, the X253 (I'm not calling it 653 because that's a school bus in North London) the X253 will ultimately enter Central London. It wouldn't exactly overbus Pembury Road if it doesn't serve any of the bus stops on it, after all, it is called a "Limited Stop Route" and the purpose of it is to provide faster journeys for people local to 253 and 254, not 56. The only reason i rerouted it to Pembury Road is so that it skips Lower Clapton Road traffic. I'd rather it go Aldgate instead of Homerton Hospital as it would mostly follow the routing of 254. My point isn't that X253 enters Central London, in your previous post you said about how services along X253 have seen reductions such as 29, 38, 253 and 254 and i said that was part of the 300pvr cut for Central London project, and then i said how popular some of those routes are this year that have seen a reduction, so my point is that TFL are reducing corridors regardless of their popularity. (Also, i didn't know 653 was a school bus )
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 23, 2021 9:17:43 GMT
You would then overbus Pembury Road which AFAIK copes fine with just the 56 and I'd imagine a link to Homerton Hospital would be more attractive than a link.to Aldgate but again could be wrong. The issue with your statement RE the 29, 38, 253, 254 etc is unfortunately that, the X253 (I'm not calling it 653 because that's a school bus in North London) the X253 will ultimately enter Central London. It wouldn't exactly overbus Pembury Road if it doesn't serve any of the bus stops on it, after all, it is called a "Limited Stop Route" and the purpose of it is to provide faster journeys for people local to 253 and 254, not 56. The only reason i rerouted it to Pembury Road is so that it skips Lower Clapton Road traffic. I'd rather it go Aldgate instead of Homerton Hospital as it would mostly follow the routing of 254. My point isn't that X253 enters Central London, in your previous post you said about how services along X253 have seen reductions such as 29, 38, 253 and 254 and i said that was part of the 300pvr cut for Central London project, and then i said how popular some of those routes are this year that have seen a reduction, so my point is that TFL are reducing corridors regardless of their popularity. (Also, i didn't know 653 was a school bus ) My point is in the case of the 106/253/254 despite not properly entering town they still saw reductions and your X253 follows both of them & I unfortunately can't see someone like an X253 created. I'd much rather the frequencies reinstated to what they were on all of them (except the 38) especially with high demand from Clapton Pond & Upper Clapton to Manor House, the A503 is a high loading corridor and anyway as has been mentioned the traffic on the eastern section whether or not you divert it via Pembury Road will still exist I don't think the route will work as an express service.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 23, 2021 9:36:56 GMT
It wouldn't exactly overbus Pembury Road if it doesn't serve any of the bus stops on it, after all, it is called a "Limited Stop Route" and the purpose of it is to provide faster journeys for people local to 253 and 254, not 56. The only reason i rerouted it to Pembury Road is so that it skips Lower Clapton Road traffic. I'd rather it go Aldgate instead of Homerton Hospital as it would mostly follow the routing of 254. My point isn't that X253 enters Central London, in your previous post you said about how services along X253 have seen reductions such as 29, 38, 253 and 254 and i said that was part of the 300pvr cut for Central London project, and then i said how popular some of those routes are this year that have seen a reduction, so my point is that TFL are reducing corridors regardless of their popularity. (Also, i didn't know 653 was a school bus ) My point is in the case of the 106/253/254 despite not properly entering town they still saw reductions and your X253 follows both of them & I unfortunately can't see someone like an X253 created. I'd much rather the frequencies reinstated to what they were on all of them (except the 38) especially with high demand from Clapton Pond & Upper Clapton to Manor House, the A503 is a high loading corridor and anyway as has been mentioned the traffic on the eastern section whether or not you divert it via Pembury Road will still exist I don't think the route will work as an express service. The majority of journeys on the 253 and 254 are short hops, people connecting into tube and rail services or heading to their local shopping centre, and buses stop at most stops. What this corridor needs is frequency, not express journeys. Express routes should be saved for the outer suburbs where people make longer orbital journeys for which there isn't a decent rail alternative.
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Post by Trafalgax on Dec 23, 2021 11:54:04 GMT
My point is in the case of the 106/253/254 despite not properly entering town they still saw reductions and your X253 follows both of them & I unfortunately can't see someone like an X253 created. I'd much rather the frequencies reinstated to what they were on all of them (except the 38) especially with high demand from Clapton Pond & Upper Clapton to Manor House, the A503 is a high loading corridor and anyway as has been mentioned the traffic on the eastern section whether or not you divert it via Pembury Road will still exist I don't think the route will work as an express service. The majority of journeys on the 253 and 254 are short hops, people connecting into tube and rail services or heading to their local shopping centre, and buses stop at most stops. What this corridor needs is frequency, not express journeys. Express routes should be saved for the outer suburbs where people make longer orbital journeys for which there isn't a decent rail alternative. Alright so that basically which routes carry the most amount of passangers per mile. I did a quick calculation on that according to the data we got this year. 253 is 2.9 with 254 not too far behind standing at 2.88 and then after that is 140 being slightly below at 2.81 so that means both of those routes are slightly more susceptible of being overcrowd per bus stop. So with what you just said, the majority of journeys on the 140 are also short hops with people connecting into the tube, national rails or local shopping centres such as Harrow yet, TFL still introduced an Express route along side it. So just because some routes may have "short hops" doesn't necessarily mean they need or don't need express journeys. 207 is already in the top 30 so i can see why 607 exists.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 23, 2021 12:00:26 GMT
The majority of journeys on the 253 and 254 are short hops, people connecting into tube and rail services or heading to their local shopping centre, and buses stop at most stops. What this corridor needs is frequency, not express journeys. Express routes should be saved for the outer suburbs where people make longer orbital journeys for which there isn't a decent rail alternative. Alright so that basically which routes carry the most amount of passangers per mile. I did a quick calculation on that according to the data we got this year. 253 is 2.9 with 254 not too far behind standing at 2.88 and then after that is 140 being slightly below at 2.81 so that means both of those routes are slightly more susceptible of being overcrowd per bus stop. So with what you just said, the majority of journeys on the 140 are also short hops with people connecting into the tube, national rails or local shopping centres such as Harrow yet, TFL still introduced an Express route along side it. So just because some routes may have "short hops" doesn't necessarily mean they need or don't need express journeys. 207 is already in the top 30 so i can see why 607 exists. In all fairness with the 140 I imagine it was introduced to retain links to and from Heathrow when it was split into the 140 & 278.
As for the 207/427/607, those 3 routes have very clear end goals as destinations go such as Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge, Shepherds Bush for Westfield, Acton High Street etc and as a result I think all 3 work in tandem very well. In some ways I imagine there are long distance journeys on the 607 to massive retail giants such as Westfield & intu Uxbridge.
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Post by busman on Dec 23, 2021 14:18:03 GMT
661 - 1 additional journey in each direction, extended to Hurstmere School via the current route to Chislehurst, then; route 160 to Sidcup, then route 229 to Hurstmere School. Morning departure at 7:15am from Petts Wood. Return journey at 3:10pm from Hurstmere School.
Rationale: Reduce reliance on cars to get secondary school children to and from school & provide new direct links to Chislehurst & Sidcup Grammar School catchment area.
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Post by busman on Dec 23, 2021 14:33:28 GMT
Alright so that basically which routes carry the most amount of passangers per mile. I did a quick calculation on that according to the data we got this year. 253 is 2.9 with 254 not too far behind standing at 2.88 and then after that is 140 being slightly below at 2.81 so that means both of those routes are slightly more susceptible of being overcrowd per bus stop. So with what you just said, the majority of journeys on the 140 are also short hops with people connecting into the tube, national rails or local shopping centres such as Harrow yet, TFL still introduced an Express route along side it. So just because some routes may have "short hops" doesn't necessarily mean they need or don't need express journeys. 207 is already in the top 30 so i can see why 607 exists. In all fairness with the 140 I imagine it was introduced to retain links to and from Heathrow when it was split into the 140 & 278.
As for the 207/427/607, those 3 routes have very clear end goals as destinations go such as Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge, Shepherds Bush for Westfield, Acton High Street etc and as a result I think all 3 work in tandem very well. In some ways I imagine there are long distance journeys on the 607 to massive retail giants such as Westfield & intu Uxbridge.
The 607 predates Westfield. After it was introduced, through journeys between Shepherds Bush and Uxbridge were provided by the 607 and the PVR of the 207 was reduced. Since the split of the 207, the 607 has really developed a role of it’s own getting passengers from end to end quickly at all times and days of the week. Well, it used to be quick 😉
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Post by vjaska on Dec 23, 2021 15:02:29 GMT
In all fairness with the 140 I imagine it was introduced to retain links to and from Heathrow when it was split into the 140 & 278. As for the 207/427/607, those 3 routes have very clear end goals as destinations go such as Ealing Broadway, Uxbridge, Shepherds Bush for Westfield, Acton High Street etc and as a result I think all 3 work in tandem very well. In some ways I imagine there are long distance journeys on the 607 to massive retail giants such as Westfield & intu Uxbridge.
The 607 predates Westfield. After it was introduced, through journeys between Shepherds Bush and Uxbridge were provided by the 607 and the PVR of the 207 was reduced. Since the split of the 207, the 607 has really developed a role of it’s own getting passengers from end to end quickly at all times and days of the week. Well, it used to be quick 😉 It can still be, during it's period with the TE's & VW's, I managed to do a 1h journey end to end on a Saturday and not at night - it just all depends on the conditions at that time.
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 23, 2021 18:34:07 GMT
661 - 1 additional journey in each direction, extended to Hurstmere School via the current route to Chislehurst, then; route 160 to Sidcup, then route 229 to Hurstmere School. Morning departure at 7:15am from Petts Wood. Return journey at 3:10pm from Hurstmere School. Rationale: Reduce reliance on cars to get secondary school children to and from school & provide new direct links to Chislehurst & Sidcup Grammar School catchment area. Sounds lovely : but my suspicion is a direct journey would be very popular with both Hurstmere and Chis & Sid. This will mean your homeward 661 will be full of Hurstmere before it gets to the leisure centre to pick up the Chis & Sid children. A great idea on paper, but unless there are two buses allocated, it’s not practical.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 23, 2021 18:42:06 GMT
661 - 1 additional journey in each direction, extended to Hurstmere School via the current route to Chislehurst, then; route 160 to Sidcup, then route 229 to Hurstmere School. Morning departure at 7:15am from Petts Wood. Return journey at 3:10pm from Hurstmere School. Rationale: Reduce reliance on cars to get secondary school children to and from school & provide new direct links to Chislehurst & Sidcup Grammar School catchment area. Sounds lovely : but my suspicion is a direct journey would be very popular with both Hurstmere and Chis & Sid. This will mean your homeward 661 will be full of Hurstmere before it gets to the leisure centre to pick up the Chis & Sid children. A great idea on paper, but unless there are two buses allocated, it’s not practical. The proposal is for an additional journey, so that would be two buses allocated.
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Post by busman on Dec 23, 2021 20:13:08 GMT
Sounds lovely : but my suspicion is a direct journey would be very popular with both Hurstmere and Chis & Sid. This will mean your homeward 661 will be full of Hurstmere before it gets to the leisure centre to pick up the Chis & Sid children. A great idea on paper, but unless there are two buses allocated, it’s not practical. The proposal is for an additional journey, so that would be two buses allocated. I suspect twobellstogo might be right, and I did consider two journeys, however I thought that might be overkill. An alternative would be to have 2 afternoon journeys starting 1-2 minutes apart.
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js11
Cleaner
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Post by js11 on Dec 24, 2021 14:00:57 GMT
How does 308 to Ilford and 425 to Wanstead sound?
425 barely carries anyone from Bow Church to Ilford so maybe more people would be interested in going to Wanstead from Bow and Mile End.
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js11
Cleaner
Posts: 24
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Post by js11 on Dec 24, 2021 14:02:25 GMT
How does 308 to Ilford and 425 to Wanstead sound? 425 barely carries anyone from Bow Church to Ilford so maybe more people would be interested in going to Wanstead from Bow and Mile End. It would also connect Stratford City to Ilford
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