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Post by vjaska on Jul 3, 2020 21:17:24 GMT
The 188 has probably survived due to the two logical places to shorten the route to have no stand space available. Restructuring it to either Russell Square to Greenwich or Elephant to North Greenwich both run into difficulties with no stand space at Elephant and Greenwich not having any space to terminate routes in the future. I still like the idea of the 1 becoming TCR to North Greenwich with support from the 45 Elephant to CW and Jamaica Road left to the 47 and 381 with the 188 discontinued. Alternatively the 188 diverted to Waterloo via the 381 and the 199 re configured to take in the Rotherhithe loop and the 381 just CW to Peckham. That takes a route out of Jamaica road and through Aldwych and Holborn Tottenham Court Road to North Greenwich would be no better than Russell Square to North Greenwich as the area around Tottenham Court Road is significantly heavily congested - ironically, it would probably be slightly easier as a Russell Square to North Greenwich route.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 3, 2020 21:19:32 GMT
Many routes other than the 47 have shown a drop in usage so it shouldn't be used as a simple justification for getting rid of it as then half the network would be cut as a result of that justification. When suggesting changes, I prefer to keep as much familiarity as possible in order to dial down confusion hence why the 47 & 381 remain as they are with only the 1 seeing a sizable difference due to the cutback I proposed - all others are extensions covering the majority of the 188 and covering the 1's cutback. But as has been seen on the 47 - the northern end has been dying and some people are suggesting the route be cut to Canada Water. If that is people's verdicts then imo it should be almagumated into the 1, a route which is roughly 6 miles long and the extension being below 5. Then Because the route is so short, it could then be added into a current route It all depends on which people's verdicts to begin with and to say the 47's northern end is dying is extreme.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 3, 2020 22:04:57 GMT
I don't think the 47 is necessarily dying but more a situation has arisen similar to the 48/55/56 and the Finchley Road where the totally cacpcity now needed can be accommodated on two rather then three routes as well as TFL having a desire to remove a route though Aldwych and Holborn due to roadschemes in the pipeline. That's why I have advocated the 1 and 188 merging and providing much needed even now assistance between CW and Elepant via the 1 by extending the 45. Two routes on Jamaica Road and two routes on Southwark park road is a good use of resources.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 3, 2020 22:09:39 GMT
I don't think the 47 is necessarily dying but more a situation has arisen similar to the 48/55/56 and the Finchley Road where the totally cacpcity now needed can be accommodated on two rather then three routes as well as TFL having a desire to remove a route though Aldwych and Holborn due to roadschemes in the pipeline. That's why I have advocated the 1 and 188 merging and providing much needed even now assistance between CW and Elepant via the 1 by extending the 45. Two routes on Jamaica Road and two routes on Southwark park road is a good use of resources. It isn't but many people have suggested the route is turfed off at CW which is why I went about my reasoning of extending the 1 and keeping the 188 reliable with the traffic hotspots it has. If the 47 is not dying then the 381 can be extended to Shoreditch with the 47 removed.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 3, 2020 22:31:21 GMT
It always seemed odd to me the LRT removed a route from the section that wasn't directly served by a Jubilee line station (199) but left three routes along the street that did have the new station (Bermondsey). You can take the tube rather then the 47/188/381 from CW to Bermondsey but to get from CW to Southwark Park Road you can only take the bus as it a bit of a walk from Bermondsey Station.
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Post by aaron1 on Jul 3, 2020 23:37:54 GMT
Scenario 1 N188 Chalk farm morrisons To Thamesmead This will replace N1 1 will be 24 hour N1 withdrawn
Scenario 2 N188 Chalk farm morrisons To Erith via 99 from Woolwich Arsenal giving new night links N1 reroute via 472 from Plumstead to Thamesmead then to terminate at Abbey Wood Station
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Post by COBO on Jul 6, 2020 14:18:22 GMT
302: Extended from Kensal Green to East Acton Brunel Road via Chamberlayne Road, Kilburn Lane, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Scrubs Lane, Wood Lane, Du Cane Road, Hammersmith Hospital and route 7 to Brunel Road. To link Willesden, Neasden and Kensal Rise with Scrubs Lane, Hammersmith Hospital and East Acton. 487: withdrawn between Harlesden Jubilee Clock and Willesden Junction. Diverted to Kensal Green via Harlesden High Street, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Kilburn Lane and route 52 to Kensal Rise. To provide round a corner links Such as Acton Lane and Harlesden Station With Harlesden High Street and Harrow Road, to also link Kensal Rise with Kensal Green Station and Harrow Road.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 6, 2020 14:25:52 GMT
302: Extended from Kensal Green to East Acton Brunel Road via Chamberlayne Road, Kilburn Lane, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Scrubs Lane, Wood Lane, Du Cane Road, Hammersmith Hospital and route 7 to Brunel Road. To link Willesden, Neasden and Kensal Rise with Scrubs Lane, Hammersmith Hospital and East Acton. 487: withdrawn between Harlesden Jubilee Clock and Willesden Junction. Diverted to Kensal Green via Harlesden High Street, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Kilburn Lane and route 52 to Kensal Rise. To provide round a corner links Such as Acton Lane and Harlesden Station With Harlesden High Street and Harrow Road, to also link Kensal Rise with Kensal Green Station and Harrow Road. The 487 link to Willesden Junction I deem fairly useful for when HS2 opens and trains stop at Old Oak Common.
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Post by COBO on Jul 6, 2020 14:30:21 GMT
302: Extended from Kensal Green to East Acton Brunel Road via Chamberlayne Road, Kilburn Lane, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Scrubs Lane, Wood Lane, Du Cane Road, Hammersmith Hospital and route 7 to Brunel Road. To link Willesden, Neasden and Kensal Rise with Scrubs Lane, Hammersmith Hospital and East Acton. 487: withdrawn between Harlesden Jubilee Clock and Willesden Junction. Diverted to Kensal Green via Harlesden High Street, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Kilburn Lane and route 52 to Kensal Rise. To provide round a corner links Such as Acton Lane and Harlesden Station With Harlesden High Street and Harrow Road, to also link Kensal Rise with Kensal Green Station and Harrow Road. The 487 link to Willesden Junction I deem fairly useful for when HS2 opens and trains stop at Old Oak Common. Where would the location of the new Old Oak Common Station be?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 6, 2020 14:31:59 GMT
The 487 link to Willesden Junction I deem fairly useful for when HS2 opens and trains stop at Old Oak Common. Where would the location of the new Old Oak Common Station be? It would be at the railway depot and the 487 could be cheaply extended to Old Oak Common Station.
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Post by COBO on Jul 6, 2020 14:35:40 GMT
Where would the location of the new Old Oak Common Station be? It would be at the railway depot and the 487 could be cheaply extended to Old Oak Common Station. Will there even be a bus terminus at Old Oak Common?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 6, 2020 14:38:56 GMT
It would be at the railway depot and the 487 could be cheaply extended to Old Oak Common Station. Will there even be a bus terminus at Old Oak Common? Yes...there were plans for buses to be extended there
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Post by rif153 on Jul 6, 2020 14:49:40 GMT
302: Extended from Kensal Green to East Acton Brunel Road via Chamberlayne Road, Kilburn Lane, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Scrubs Lane, Wood Lane, Du Cane Road, Hammersmith Hospital and route 7 to Brunel Road. To link Willesden, Neasden and Kensal Rise with Scrubs Lane, Hammersmith Hospital and East Acton. 487: withdrawn between Harlesden Jubilee Clock and Willesden Junction. Diverted to Kensal Green via Harlesden High Street, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Kilburn Lane and route 52 to Kensal Rise. To provide round a corner links Such as Acton Lane and Harlesden Station With Harlesden High Street and Harrow Road, to also link Kensal Rise with Kensal Green Station and Harrow Road. Your 302 idea would create a convenient link to Hammersmith Hospital from areas north of it as well as helping to ease overcrowding on the 18 and 220. I believe both the 18 and 220 need to be relief but I think a better way to achieve it would be to have some sort of route which serve White City as that's a major hub which 220s can leave crush loaded. I really don't see the need to tamper with the 487. Despite the 18 being a busy route, going from one to three route along the Harrow Road east of Willesden Junction seems a bit much to me. Willesden Junction is a hub, unlike Kensal Rise so it seems ludicrous to remove a bus link from there especially considering that this would leave only the infrequent 228 connecting Willesden Junction to Acton Lane and Central Middlesex Hospital whilst removing any link to Willesden Junction from places further west than Central Mids on the 487 route. I agree with LondonNorthern that it is a useful link and I hope when Old Oak Common opens the 487 receives double deckers as well as a potential extension into the development.
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Post by COBO on Jul 6, 2020 15:11:56 GMT
302: Extended from Kensal Green to East Acton Brunel Road via Chamberlayne Road, Kilburn Lane, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Scrubs Lane, Wood Lane, Du Cane Road, Hammersmith Hospital and route 7 to Brunel Road. To link Willesden, Neasden and Kensal Rise with Scrubs Lane, Hammersmith Hospital and East Acton. 487: withdrawn between Harlesden Jubilee Clock and Willesden Junction. Diverted to Kensal Green via Harlesden High Street, Harrow Road, Kensal Green Station, Kilburn Lane and route 52 to Kensal Rise. To provide round a corner links Such as Acton Lane and Harlesden Station With Harlesden High Street and Harrow Road, to also link Kensal Rise with Kensal Green Station and Harrow Road. Your 302 idea would create a convenient link to Hammersmith Hospital from areas north of it as well as helping to ease overcrowding on the 18 and 220. I believe both the 18 and 220 need to be relief but I think a better way to achieve it would be to have some sort of route which serve White City as that's a major hub which 220s can leave crush loaded. I really don't see the need to tamper with the 487. Despite the 18 being a busy route, going from one to three route along the Harrow Road east of Willesden Junction seems a bit much to me. Willesden Junction is a hub, unlike Kensal Rise so it seems ludicrous to remove a bus link from there especially considering that this would leave only the infrequent 228 connecting Willesden Junction to Acton Lane and Central Middlesex Hospital whilst removing any link to Willesden Junction from places further west than Central Mids on the 487 route. I agree with LondonNorthern that it is a useful link and I hope when Old Oak Common opens the 487 receives double deckers as well as a potential extension into the development. What would you suggest extending the 302 to White City via Chamberlayne Road, Kilburn Lane, Harrow Road, Scrubs Lane and route 220 to White City. To help act as relief for the 18 and 220. Granted the 487 to Kensal Rise is a bad idea but I don’t think that having three routes along Harrow Road East and Willesden Junction is too much the 18 could do with the help.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 6, 2020 16:14:38 GMT
Barnet bus changes:
Demand Responsive Travel is introduced in the areas of Hadley Wood, Hadley Green, Kitts End, Dancers Hill and Ganwick Corner. These vehicles can go to High Barnet, The Spires and Barnet Hospital. Changes as follows:
Route 399: Discontinued Route 384: Changes don't go ahead Route 389: Extended from Barnet, The Spires to Edgware via Route 614 to Broadfields Avenue, buses then hail and ride down that section then Route 240 to Edgware Station. Frequency is increased to 3bph.
The 389 will continue to end at Western Way though with Massive space in the junction with the Linkway, a Tooting Broadway style stand could be built for the 389 with 20mph zones implemented for the safety of others. Buses towards Edgware will now start at the Infant School and the Linkway stop will be removed. You may wonder why I am choosing for it to go via the A41 and then Broadfields Avenue onto Hale Lane. In doing this, we are still giving the 292 some existence and no frequency changes are needed, the journey times will be quicker and I am advocating for the route to use Broadfields Avenue due to Edgwarebury Lane being fairly traffic ridden as it is. Thoughts?
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