|
Post by WH241 on Apr 23, 2024 17:19:24 GMT
Narrow roads where? The section that needs the three routes is mainly High Street North and High Street South. Good luck trying to remove buses in this busy part of east London! High St North is extremely narrow, not helped by the fact that you have other vehicles coming out of roads bordering that. So is the 147’s section through Little Ilford, though I wouldn’t remove that because that gets very busy going towards Ilford. I wonder if it would be better to send everything via Ron Leighton Way in both directions because that road is wider. But I’m not talking about the 147 or the back roads that it uses. I would be opposed to sending buses via Ron Leighton Way as buses would face two sets of traffic lights instead of one and the set for Ron Leighton Way are a filter set so not much traffic gets through them! High Street North is not as bad as you are implying.
|
|
|
Post by VMH2537 on Apr 27, 2024 10:15:41 GMT
My SL2 proposal
I've previously criticised the SL2 on its poor linier of the route, in particular routing via Ilford Lane as well as not providing wide orbital links that currently exist from the areas served. I've formed an idea on what I think could unlock more potential in links and usage whilst aligning with the Superloop objectives on providing wide connectivity and reducing journey times.
Part 1: Restructuring the SL2 to operate between Edmonton Green and Ilford
The refined SL2 could operate instead from Edmonton Green rather than Walthamstow. The potential of this could unlock more wider connectivity in particular connections between Edmonton and wide East London such as Woodford, Gants Hill and Ilford supporting orbital links based on the Superloop's purpose.
The route will divert after South Woodford and will route onto the A406 running non-stop until Crooked Billet Roundabout where it will run parallel with the SL1 until Silver Street station. Fore Street will be served afterwards until Edmonton Green. Edmonton Green was selected on its strategic location of being a interchange hub with connections to Bush Hill, Ponders End and the Lea Valley.
A curtailment on the SL2 will also be made to terminate at Ilford instead of North Woolwich with a replacement route towards Barking below.
Part 2: Extending route 179 to Barking
To replace the SL2's routing between Ilford and Barking, an extension of the 179 to Barking could be made to retain links to Gants Hill as what's currently provided from the SL2. Rather than skipping stops on Ilford Lane, the 179 will serve all stops on the road restoring services from those stops since the route was curtailed away from Barking.
Part 3: Restructure the proposed Leytonstone to South Havering route to operate from Walthamstow Central instead of Leytonstone
The proposed Leytonstone to South Havering Superloop 2 route is another route under some criticism mainly on its lack of connectivity potential mainly paralleling the whole 66 route from Romford to Leytonstone. Rather than routing to Leytonstone, routing to Walthamstow Central instead could unlock wider orbital links whilst replacing the SL2's current routing at the same time, if it restructures to Edmonton Green. Stopping at the current SL2 stops will be retained once diverted from Gants Hill.
Walthamstow Central and Woodford could benefit from new direct links to Romford, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. The latter two are only if the route serves those locations.
Part 4: New express route between Romford and North Woolwich via Barking
Replacing the section between Barking and North Woolwich could be done from introducing a new express route between Romford and North Woolwich. This potential service could run via the current route 5's routing until Barking stopping only at key alighting points and interchanges before continuing to North Woolwich.
Benefits this service could bring include faster journey times between Barking and Romford, new connectivity from North Woolwich and a more frequent service with services running up to 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytimes and every 12 minutes on Sunday and evenings.
Notes
This is one of the few ideas I think what will improve the Superloop network around East London. I do personally have more ideas what I think could do better on other parts of the wide network in London, but will post more in the coming weeks.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Apr 27, 2024 23:57:20 GMT
My SL2 proposalI've previously criticised the SL2 on its poor linier of the route, in particular routing via Ilford Lane as well as not providing wide orbital links that currently exist from the areas served. I've formed an idea on what I think could unlock more potential in links and usage whilst aligning with the Superloop objectives on providing wide connectivity and reducing journey times. Part 1: Restructuring the SL2 to operate between Edmonton Green and Ilford
The refined SL2 could operate instead from Edmonton Green rather than Walthamstow. The potential of this could unlock more wider connectivity in particular connections between Edmonton and wide East London such as Woodford, Gants Hill and Ilford supporting orbital links based on the Superloop's purpose. The route will divert after South Woodford and will route onto the A406 running non-stop until Crooked Billet Roundabout where it will run parallel with the SL1 until Silver Street station. Fore Street will be served afterwards until Edmonton Green. Edmonton Green was selected on its strategic location of being a interchange hub with connections to Bush Hill, Ponders End and the Lea Valley. A curtailment on the SL2 will also be made to terminate at Ilford instead of North Woolwich with a replacement route towards Barking below. Part 2: Extending route 179 to BarkingTo replace the SL2's routing between Ilford and Barking, an extension of the 179 to Barking could be made to retain links to Gants Hill as what's currently provided from the SL2. Rather than skipping stops on Ilford Lane, the 179 will serve all stops on the road restoring services from those stops since the route was curtailed away from Barking. Part 3: Restructure the proposed Leytonstone to South Havering route to operate from Walthamstow Central instead of Leytonstone
The proposed Leytonstone to South Havering Superloop 2 route is another route under some criticism mainly on its lack of connectivity potential mainly paralleling the whole 66 route from Romford to Leytonstone. Rather than routing to Leytonstone, routing to Walthamstow Central instead could unlock wider orbital links whilst replacing the SL2's current routing at the same time, if it restructures to Edmonton Green. Stopping at the current SL2 stops will be retained once diverted from Gants Hill. Walthamstow Central and Woodford could benefit from new direct links to Romford, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. The latter two are only if the route serves those locations. Part 4: New express route between Romford and North Woolwich via BarkingReplacing the section between Barking and North Woolwich could be done from introducing a new express route between Romford and North Woolwich. This potential service could run via the current route 5's routing until Barking stopping only at key alighting points and interchanges before continuing to North Woolwich. Benefits this service could bring include faster journey times between Barking and Romford, new connectivity from North Woolwich and a more frequent service with services running up to 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytimes and every 12 minutes on Sunday and evenings. Notes
This is one of the few ideas I think what will improve the Superloop network around East London. I do personally have more ideas what I think could do better on other parts of the wide network in London, but will post more in the coming weeks. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the 179 was cut back due to reliability issues as well as the EL1 & EL2's introductions? If so, I can't see the 179 returning to Barking
|
|
|
Post by busoccultation on Apr 28, 2024 9:47:34 GMT
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the 179 was cut back due to reliability issues as well as the EL1 & EL2's introductions? If so, I can't see the 179 returning to Barking Mostly yes, Woodford also has a fair share of traffic issues to deal with for the 179 during the weekday peak hours and Saturday afternoons with the main issues being High Road through Woodford Green which sometimes can see congestion all the way from Woodford Wells to the Waitrose by George Lane, the narrow roads by South Woodford Station for passing buses that usually needs another bus to pass by or waiting for someone to stop to let a bus go through and then you got Chigwell Road which on a bad day can see traffic going beyond George Lane and all the away to Charlie Browns Roundabout and sometimes even the oppitste direction from Charlie Browns Roundabout to Geroge Lane. I do often feel like the suggestions for the SL2 on here to be changed just for the sake of avoiding Ilford Lane when the reality is that other roads in East London already see similar traffic issues as well and don't go near to the edge of the Greater London boundary even though part of the SL2 route already does.
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Apr 28, 2024 12:29:46 GMT
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the 179 was cut back due to reliability issues as well as the EL1 & EL2's introductions? If so, I can't see the 179 returning to Barking Mostly yes, Woodford also has a fair share of traffic issues to deal with for the 179 during the weekday peak hours and Saturday afternoons with the main issues being High Road through Woodford Green which sometimes can see congestion all the way from Woodford Wells to the Waitrose by George Lane, the narrow roads by South Woodford Station for passing buses that usually needs another bus to pass by or waiting for someone to stop to let a bus go through and then you got Chigwell Road which on a bad day can see traffic going beyond George Lane and all the away to Charlie Browns Roundabout and sometimes even the oppitste direction from Charlie Browns Roundabout to Geroge Lane. I do often feel like the suggestions for the SL2 on here to be changed just for the sake of avoiding Ilford Lane when the reality is that other roads in East London already see similar traffic issues as well and don't go near to the edge of the Greater London boundary even though part of the SL2 route already does.
In my opinion the 179 corridor should have been replaced by a Superloop route, linking the suburbs of Chingford, Woodford, Gants Hill, Ilford and Barking. And also pushing the northern parts of the main loop further out to cover the proposed Harrow-Edgware-Barnet-Enfield-Chingford sections. I think this would be more useful than Walthamstow since the Overground already links to Barking. Then merge part of the 179 with the W13 to operate between Leyton and Chingford (via Woodford) using DDs. Plus a new Walthamstow-Ilford route alongside, going via the current SL2 but serving all stops. And depending on the frequency of this route, the 123 could maybe be cut back from Ilford to improve reliability?
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Apr 28, 2024 12:41:56 GMT
My SL2 proposalI've previously criticised the SL2 on its poor linier of the route, in particular routing via Ilford Lane as well as not providing wide orbital links that currently exist from the areas served. I've formed an idea on what I think could unlock more potential in links and usage whilst aligning with the Superloop objectives on providing wide connectivity and reducing journey times. Part 1: Restructuring the SL2 to operate between Edmonton Green and Ilford
The refined SL2 could operate instead from Edmonton Green rather than Walthamstow. The potential of this could unlock more wider connectivity in particular connections between Edmonton and wide East London such as Woodford, Gants Hill and Ilford supporting orbital links based on the Superloop's purpose. The route will divert after South Woodford and will route onto the A406 running non-stop until Crooked Billet Roundabout where it will run parallel with the SL1 until Silver Street station. Fore Street will be served afterwards until Edmonton Green. Edmonton Green was selected on its strategic location of being a interchange hub with connections to Bush Hill, Ponders End and the Lea Valley. A curtailment on the SL2 will also be made to terminate at Ilford instead of North Woolwich with a replacement route towards Barking below. Part 2: Extending route 179 to BarkingTo replace the SL2's routing between Ilford and Barking, an extension of the 179 to Barking could be made to retain links to Gants Hill as what's currently provided from the SL2. Rather than skipping stops on Ilford Lane, the 179 will serve all stops on the road restoring services from those stops since the route was curtailed away from Barking. Part 3: Restructure the proposed Leytonstone to South Havering route to operate from Walthamstow Central instead of Leytonstone
The proposed Leytonstone to South Havering Superloop 2 route is another route under some criticism mainly on its lack of connectivity potential mainly paralleling the whole 66 route from Romford to Leytonstone. Rather than routing to Leytonstone, routing to Walthamstow Central instead could unlock wider orbital links whilst replacing the SL2's current routing at the same time, if it restructures to Edmonton Green. Stopping at the current SL2 stops will be retained once diverted from Gants Hill. Walthamstow Central and Woodford could benefit from new direct links to Romford, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. The latter two are only if the route serves those locations. Part 4: New express route between Romford and North Woolwich via BarkingReplacing the section between Barking and North Woolwich could be done from introducing a new express route between Romford and North Woolwich. This potential service could run via the current route 5's routing until Barking stopping only at key alighting points and interchanges before continuing to North Woolwich. Benefits this service could bring include faster journey times between Barking and Romford, new connectivity from North Woolwich and a more frequent service with services running up to 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytimes and every 12 minutes on Sunday and evenings. Notes
This is one of the few ideas I think what will improve the Superloop network around East London. I do personally have more ideas what I think could do better on other parts of the wide network in London, but will post more in the coming weeks. Obviously I'm not local so my comments will have a different angle but I like the look of these ideas.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 28, 2024 13:56:19 GMT
My SL2 proposalI've previously criticised the SL2 on its poor linier of the route, in particular routing via Ilford Lane as well as not providing wide orbital links that currently exist from the areas served. I've formed an idea on what I think could unlock more potential in links and usage whilst aligning with the Superloop objectives on providing wide connectivity and reducing journey times. Part 1: Restructuring the SL2 to operate between Edmonton Green and Ilford
The refined SL2 could operate instead from Edmonton Green rather than Walthamstow. The potential of this could unlock more wider connectivity in particular connections between Edmonton and wide East London such as Woodford, Gants Hill and Ilford supporting orbital links based on the Superloop's purpose. The route will divert after South Woodford and will route onto the A406 running non-stop until Crooked Billet Roundabout where it will run parallel with the SL1 until Silver Street station. Fore Street will be served afterwards until Edmonton Green. Edmonton Green was selected on its strategic location of being a interchange hub with connections to Bush Hill, Ponders End and the Lea Valley. A curtailment on the SL2 will also be made to terminate at Ilford instead of North Woolwich with a replacement route towards Barking below. Part 2: Extending route 179 to BarkingTo replace the SL2's routing between Ilford and Barking, an extension of the 179 to Barking could be made to retain links to Gants Hill as what's currently provided from the SL2. Rather than skipping stops on Ilford Lane, the 179 will serve all stops on the road restoring services from those stops since the route was curtailed away from Barking. Part 3: Restructure the proposed Leytonstone to South Havering route to operate from Walthamstow Central instead of Leytonstone
The proposed Leytonstone to South Havering Superloop 2 route is another route under some criticism mainly on its lack of connectivity potential mainly paralleling the whole 66 route from Romford to Leytonstone. Rather than routing to Leytonstone, routing to Walthamstow Central instead could unlock wider orbital links whilst replacing the SL2's current routing at the same time, if it restructures to Edmonton Green. Stopping at the current SL2 stops will be retained once diverted from Gants Hill. Walthamstow Central and Woodford could benefit from new direct links to Romford, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. The latter two are only if the route serves those locations. Part 4: New express route between Romford and North Woolwich via BarkingReplacing the section between Barking and North Woolwich could be done from introducing a new express route between Romford and North Woolwich. This potential service could run via the current route 5's routing until Barking stopping only at key alighting points and interchanges before continuing to North Woolwich. Benefits this service could bring include faster journey times between Barking and Romford, new connectivity from North Woolwich and a more frequent service with services running up to 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytimes and every 12 minutes on Sunday and evenings. Notes
This is one of the few ideas I think what will improve the Superloop network around East London. I do personally have more ideas what I think could do better on other parts of the wide network in London, but will post more in the coming weeks. Have to say I did enjoy reading your proposals, my thoughts are as follows Part 1: The biggest issue Barking has at the moment is that there is a huge lack of links heading North of the A12, the only routes heading north off the A12 from Barking are the 366, 169 and 62, of which the 62 and 366 only slightly go North while the 169 heads down a side road full of houses. The obvious way to avoid Ilford Lane would be heading onto the A406, but that brings its own plethora of issues. The loss of the 179 did leave a hole from Barking as you rightly mention but adaptation has happened since. The next point raised is what busoccultation mentioned which is the fact there's similar issues on many other roads in the area too so you're limited in what can be done. I can't comment on the Edmonton Green link other than the fact it'd probably get a positive reception, but I'm unsure about usage itself. Part 2: I'd be slightly averse to extending the 179 to Barking simply because the 179 as it is can suffer from reliability issues. The EL1 and 169 actually take the lion's share of crowds and the SL2 doesn't actually gather a huge amount of usage between Ilford and Barking, probably because Ilford Lane itself can generate its own crowd. The issue the 179 would have is that you'd need to ensure the EL1 and/or 169 don't get corresponding reductions as a result. The EL1s frequency is used throughout its route now, despite only being made as frequent as it is to replace the EL2 along Ilford Lane. Part 3: I agree Leytonstone is a poor choice of terminus for the route, however I don't think Walthamstow is the answer. I think Stratford would be better and I do think that the route should have been more of an X86 than an X66 instead. Part 4: I think the issue the 5 (and EL2) have between Barking and Romford is that there's no exact pinch points on the route where you have a huge crowd boarding and alighting. It's a steady stream at almost every single stop which would be hard to capture in the form of an express route. Although this does bring me to the next point which is that North Woolwich is an utterly useless terminus in most cases. It wouldn't be helpful to Barking as a town centre where if you remove the SL2 that the lost portion would be the much needed link north while the retained section would be the less needed link towards North Woolwich. What I would probably do is send the route to terminate at either London City Airport, Custom House or Beckton Bus Station (after the introduction of more stand space there). I agree that the SL2 probably can't carry on like this in the long term, it's without fail that buses always come rolling into Barking in pairs from both directions due to various issues. But then it's also probably indicative of what needs to be done to the area as a whole in general. The biggest of which seems to be extreme reliances of locals using cars. Living in Barking pretty much every household here has a car, with some even having multiple cars. As a result the traffic situation is abysmal which means that routes like the SL2 which have reliances on dual carriageways become non-starters. The situation with Ilford Lane is one that's going to be hard to fix as it's a narrow road linking two major town centres that are in such close proximity (are there any two town centres in London this close?) which isn't helped by its own bustling community on the road. Many people will have probably noticed that Ilford Lane often has a huge blockade at its tip in Ilford but the traffic effectively then dissipates into nowhere as it's all just caused by cars coming in and out of side roads and cars attempting to parallel park. The answer to fix this would be to remove parallel parking in the area, but then you'd just increase the reliance on side roads. Years of underinvestment and poor distribution of bus routes has led to this part of East London becoming like this. The buses which do actually go to where people want to go often just boil down to one or two routes doing the heavy lifting and many other routes being feeders from the housing areas to the town centre areas. The SL2 is a huge step in the right direction to combat this but has come at a time where it's unlikely that the reliance on cars will be changing as a result. The daily news updates on BBC London where the A13 is always mentioned as 'slow heading into town' is unlikely to go anywhere anytime soon and likewise as a result nothing is realistically going to change on the North Circular Road or the various other roads in the area. I've mentioned this in another thread, but the answer is probably going to be a case of pump more resources into it rather than ending up with broken links. The ELT has had a lot of money pumped into it and you can really see the difference on those three routes and how much more willing people are to rely on them. More vigorous service control is also certainly needed, and especially very vigorous analysing on the traffic situation of Ilford Lane on a real time basis and the operator actively sending buses down the A406 to Barking instead od Ilford Lane if the A406 is more free flowing. I'd even bring South Park Drive into the mix as well and actively send buses down there too. Our phones provide real time traffic updates so I'm sure TfL can provide that information to the operators too, if Google has the data TfL surely will have a way to get the data.
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Apr 28, 2024 14:29:31 GMT
Seeing the talk about the SL2 has reminded me to post about Claps Gate Lane and the traffic lights. Something appears have been done as there is no longer congestion on Sundays at least and the road is free flowing.
I am assuming the traffic light phasing has been adjusted.
|
|
|
Post by britishguy54 on Apr 29, 2024 8:26:56 GMT
My SL2 proposalI've previously criticised the SL2 on its poor linier of the route, in particular routing via Ilford Lane as well as not providing wide orbital links that currently exist from the areas served. I've formed an idea on what I think could unlock more potential in links and usage whilst aligning with the Superloop objectives on providing wide connectivity and reducing journey times. Part 1: Restructuring the SL2 to operate between Edmonton Green and Ilford
The refined SL2 could operate instead from Edmonton Green rather than Walthamstow. The potential of this could unlock more wider connectivity in particular connections between Edmonton and wide East London such as Woodford, Gants Hill and Ilford supporting orbital links based on the Superloop's purpose. The route will divert after South Woodford and will route onto the A406 running non-stop until Crooked Billet Roundabout where it will run parallel with the SL1 until Silver Street station. Fore Street will be served afterwards until Edmonton Green. Edmonton Green was selected on its strategic location of being a interchange hub with connections to Bush Hill, Ponders End and the Lea Valley. A curtailment on the SL2 will also be made to terminate at Ilford instead of North Woolwich with a replacement route towards Barking below. Part 2: Extending route 179 to BarkingTo replace the SL2's routing between Ilford and Barking, an extension of the 179 to Barking could be made to retain links to Gants Hill as what's currently provided from the SL2. Rather than skipping stops on Ilford Lane, the 179 will serve all stops on the road restoring services from those stops since the route was curtailed away from Barking. Part 3: Restructure the proposed Leytonstone to South Havering route to operate from Walthamstow Central instead of Leytonstone
The proposed Leytonstone to South Havering Superloop 2 route is another route under some criticism mainly on its lack of connectivity potential mainly paralleling the whole 66 route from Romford to Leytonstone. Rather than routing to Leytonstone, routing to Walthamstow Central instead could unlock wider orbital links whilst replacing the SL2's current routing at the same time, if it restructures to Edmonton Green. Stopping at the current SL2 stops will be retained once diverted from Gants Hill. Walthamstow Central and Woodford could benefit from new direct links to Romford, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. The latter two are only if the route serves those locations. Part 4: New express route between Romford and North Woolwich via BarkingReplacing the section between Barking and North Woolwich could be done from introducing a new express route between Romford and North Woolwich. This potential service could run via the current route 5's routing until Barking stopping only at key alighting points and interchanges before continuing to North Woolwich. Benefits this service could bring include faster journey times between Barking and Romford, new connectivity from North Woolwich and a more frequent service with services running up to 10 minutes Monday to Saturday daytimes and every 12 minutes on Sunday and evenings. Notes
This is one of the few ideas I think what will improve the Superloop network around East London. I do personally have more ideas what I think could do better on other parts of the wide network in London, but will post more in the coming weeks. I appreciate a proposal such as this for the effort put in. Well done. However, I don’t think I would cut the section between Ilford and N. Woolwich. As people have pointed out, the 179 suffered from reliability issues. Keeping the SL2 at Barking is a better option. Perhaps re-routing it, to Barking Riverside for boat connections, or Dagenham as an alternative built up area. But even then, in the long run, north and south of the Thames will likely get that link at the DLR extension to Thamesmead, so the SL2 may become more useful. The 5 would have a benefit to bringing in an express route. Perhaps it could go beyond Romford towards Harold Wood or Upminster instead? Or further west or south towards Aldgate or North Greenwich?
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Apr 29, 2024 10:07:51 GMT
I appreciate a proposal such as this for the effort put in. Well done. However, I don’t think I would cut the section between Ilford and N. Woolwich. As people have pointed out, the 179 suffered from reliability issues. Keeping the SL2 at Barking is a better option. Perhaps re-routing it, to Barking Riverside for boat connections, or Dagenham as an alternative built up area. But even then, in the long run, north and south of the Thames will likely get that link at the DLR extension to Thamesmead, so the SL2 may become more useful. I agree the SL2 should be removed from North Woolwich, and also agree that sending it to Barking Riverside instead could work well. However I think the links from North Woolwich to Ilford/Barking should still be covered somehow, just with a lower capacity route to better match demand, and serving all stops (including the retail parks around Gallions Reach). I've suggested before to divert the 366 at Gallions Reach to instead terminate at North Woolwich (no longer serving Beckton). Then also extend the 169 from Barking to Beckton Station (but via East Ham), this would offer a more direct and higher capacity link from Beckton to Barking/Ilford. However, I'm also not sure that Walthamstow was the best place to send the SL2. It does open up the potential for some new links, as Walthamstow previously had nothing between the 20 at Waterworks Corner and the W19 at Ilford. But as an express route, this does miss out on various stops, where passengers might appreciate a direct bus to Walthamstow Central. Therefore I think a stopping service might be better on the Walthamstow-Ilford section to cover demand for shorter journeys - which wouldn't be much slower than the SL2 anyway since it would use the North Circular most of the way. And considering longer distance journeys, this seemed an odd corridor for a Superloop, as there is already the Overground between Walthamstow and Barking. And it's also quicker to take the train (changing at Wanstead Park / Forest Gate) if travelling between Walthamstow and Ilford. I think covering the 179 corridor up to Chingford might have worked better instead, which might offer a faster and more reliable alternative to the 179, which could then be split. And also offering connections at Chingford for another superloop route to the west via Enfield.
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Apr 29, 2024 10:51:22 GMT
I appreciate a proposal such as this for the effort put in. Well done. However, I don’t think I would cut the section between Ilford and N. Woolwich. As people have pointed out, the 179 suffered from reliability issues. Keeping the SL2 at Barking is a better option. Perhaps re-routing it, to Barking Riverside for boat connections, or Dagenham as an alternative built up area. But even then, in the long run, north and south of the Thames will likely get that link at the DLR extension to Thamesmead, so the SL2 may become more useful. I agree the SL2 should be removed from North Woolwich, and also agree that sending it to Barking Riverside instead could work well. However I think the links from North Woolwich to Ilford/Barking should still be covered somehow, just with a lower capacity route to better match demand, and serving all stops (including the retail parks around Gallions Reach). I've suggested before to divert the 366 at Gallions Reach to instead terminate at North Woolwich (no longer serving Beckton). Then also extend the 169 from Barking to Beckton Station (but via East Ham), this would offer a more direct and higher capacity link from Beckton to Barking/Ilford. However, I'm also not sure that Walthamstow was the best place to send the SL2. It does open up the potential for some new links, as Walthamstow previously had nothing between the 20 at Waterworks Corner and the W19 at Ilford. But as an express route, this does miss out on various stops, where passengers might appreciate a direct bus to Walthamstow Central. Therefore I think a stopping service might be better on the Walthamstow-Ilford section to cover demand for shorter journeys - which wouldn't be much slower than the SL2 anyway since it would use the North Circular most of the way. And considering longer distance journeys, this seemed an odd corridor for a Superloop, as there is already the Overground between Walthamstow and Barking. And it's also quicker to take the train (changing at Wanstead Park / Forest Gate) if travelling between Walthamstow and Ilford. I think covering the 179 corridor up to Chingford might have worked better instead, which might offer a faster and more reliable alternative to the 179, which could then be split. And also offering connections at Chingford for another superloop route to the west via Enfield. Do you honestly really think TfL will remove a brand new route so soon after it started? You have to remember the SL routes are designed to look pretty on a map and if you start sending the SL2 elsewhere it spoils the circle. The biggest issue on the SL2 is Ilford Lane and the A406 if this can be solved then it might stand a chance. TfL seems to have made adjustments to the lights on the A1020 which has improved things at Beckton.
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Apr 29, 2024 12:24:58 GMT
I agree the SL2 should be removed from North Woolwich, and also agree that sending it to Barking Riverside instead could work well. However I think the links from North Woolwich to Ilford/Barking should still be covered somehow, just with a lower capacity route to better match demand, and serving all stops (including the retail parks around Gallions Reach). I've suggested before to divert the 366 at Gallions Reach to instead terminate at North Woolwich (no longer serving Beckton). Then also extend the 169 from Barking to Beckton Station (but via East Ham), this would offer a more direct and higher capacity link from Beckton to Barking/Ilford. However, I'm also not sure that Walthamstow was the best place to send the SL2. It does open up the potential for some new links, as Walthamstow previously had nothing between the 20 at Waterworks Corner and the W19 at Ilford. But as an express route, this does miss out on various stops, where passengers might appreciate a direct bus to Walthamstow Central. Therefore I think a stopping service might be better on the Walthamstow-Ilford section to cover demand for shorter journeys - which wouldn't be much slower than the SL2 anyway since it would use the North Circular most of the way. And considering longer distance journeys, this seemed an odd corridor for a Superloop, as there is already the Overground between Walthamstow and Barking. And it's also quicker to take the train (changing at Wanstead Park / Forest Gate) if travelling between Walthamstow and Ilford. I think covering the 179 corridor up to Chingford might have worked better instead, which might offer a faster and more reliable alternative to the 179, which could then be split. And also offering connections at Chingford for another superloop route to the west via Enfield. Do you honestly really think TfL will remove a brand new route so soon after it started? You have to remember the SL routes are designed to look pretty on a map and if you start sending the SL2 elsewhere it spoils the circle. The biggest issue on the SL2 is Ilford Lane and the A406 if this can be solved then it might stand a chance. TfL seems to have made adjustments to the lights on the A1020 which has improved things at Beckton. The second set of Superloop routes proposed already really defeats the point of the neat circle on the map. Some go inside the original loop, some outside, and some are radial corridors which are already covered by rail services. What I have been suggesting recently is to simplify and rework the current and proposed SL routes to form an inner and outer circle. This would look a lot tidier on the map, be simpler for passengers to understand, and stick with the original main purpose of the Superloop - which is to provide orbital links looping around the suburbs, particularly where rail options are generally not available. So in this case, with the SL2 diverting to Chingford, I would also push the rest of the northern part of the Superloop further out to cover the proposed Harrow-Edgware-Barnet-Enfield-Chingford section - keeping the rest of the original circle from Harrow going south and round to Thamesmead. But with Barnet being a difficult place to find more stand space, I would instead extend the SL9 to Edgware, and introduce an Edgware-Chingford route. This would mean some of the current sections via Finchley and Edmonton would go, but this section partly uses the North Circular anyway so isn't that much faster than existing routes like the 34. Plus from Harrow to Walthamstow, the Superloop misses the aim of linking key town centres - places like Kingsbury, Arnos Grove and Angel Corner are not as useful as Edgware, Enfield etc. I would still suggest Walthamstow being part of the Superloop, but instead as part of the inner loop, linking to places like Stratford and Wood Green instead.
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on May 1, 2024 20:21:09 GMT
Suggestions to simplify the current and proposed Superloop network, reducing to two circles around the suburbs (an Inner loop and an Outer loop) - aiming to focus on the main purpose of orbital links between key town centres. Some limited stop sections are removed, either where the current routes avoid any major town centres, or where fast roads are used (therefore little benefit over all-stops services).
North Finchley to Walthamstow (SL1) SL1 withdrawn and replaced by an all stops service along the same route (numbered 334). 34 cut back to Edmonton, and new route 391 introduced from Walthamstow to Enfield via Edmonton Green, also replacing part of the 191 - with further changes to the 191/W8.
Walthamstow to North Woolwich (SL2) Barking to South Woodford section kept as part of the Outer loop, with a route operating between Barking Riverside and Chingford. 179 rerouted to operate between Walthamstow Central and Ilford, via the current SL2 but serving all stops. W13 to operate between Leytonstone and Chingford, and converted to DDs. W15 split as previously proposed, with one route replacing the W14 between Leyton and Leytonstone (also allowing the Hackney end to use DDs).
Thamesmead to Bromley (SL3) Kept with no changes, as part of the Outer loop. Passenger ferry introduced between Thamesmead and Barking Riverside.
Canary Wharf to Grove Park (SL4) Not introduced, since rail options will still be quicker for links to/from Canary Wharf. Replaced by several all-stops routes going through the Silvertown Tunnel, offering a greater variety of links either side of the river. 335 to extend to both Canary Wharf and Grove Park, with a simplified routeing through Kidbrooke.
Bromley to Croydon (SL5) Extended to Sutton as proposed, following the 407 in order to serve West Croydon.
Croydon to Heathrow (SL7) Cut back to Sutton as proposed, and additional stops added between Teddington and Heathrow.
Croydon to Russell Square (SL6) / Uxbridge to White City (SL8) Both routes kept unchanged, but renumbered to remove from the Superloop brand - since these are not orbital services. Could use 5XX numbers, since the 533 is partially limited stop (north of the river)?
Heathrow to Harrow (SL9) Extended to Edgware, either via Wealdstone (following the 186), or Kenton/Queensbury (via the 114/288).
Harrow to North Finchley (SL10) Limited stop service removed here, replaced by splitting the 183 to maintain capacity between Harrow and West Hendon. The 125 would cover Hendon to North Finchley still. 183 reduced to operate between Harrow and Golders Green 373 new route from Pinner to Brent Cross, following the via 142 after West Hendon. Also could go via Woodcock Hill (instead of Kenton Road) for some new links.
Barnet to Chingford Extended from Barnet to Edgware, forming part of the Outer loop.
Chingford to Stratford Stratford-Walthamstow section kept as part of the Inner loop, continuing from Stratford via the 241 to Custom House, then through the Silvertown Tunnel to North Greenwich. Chingford-Stratford section not introduced, with the 97 and Overground available here.
Leytonstone to South Havering Not introduced - the 66 is fast enough using the dual carriageway, plus the Central Line is available part of the way. Could make some minor changes to existing routes south of Romford.
North Greenwich to Thamesmead Not introduced - the 472 is adequate here, alongside other existing bus and rail services.
Lewisham to Elephant & Castle Not introduced - existing bus and rail services are more useful for most journeys. Could consider swapping the 21 and 453 termini, so the 453 can provide a direct Lewisham to Elephant link.
Eltham to Streatham Not introduced, as the corridor further south via Crystal Palace is a less congested alternative to the South Circular, and serves more useful destinations. New Inner loop service to operate between North Greenwich and Crystal Palace, via Blackheath, Lewisham, Catford and Sydenham - and another route from Crystal Palace to the west, via Streatham and Tooting to Wimbledon.
Wimbledon to Richmond Kept as part of the Inner loop, also continuing from Richmond to Ealing Broadway.
Kingston to Ealing Ealing to Richmond covered as above. Richmond to Kingston section not introduced, could ideally increase SWR to 4tph here.
Hammersmith to Hounslow Not introduced, with the Piccadilly line and H91 available. Could consider diverting the H91 via the A4 between Hammersmith and Gunnersbury, and in place extending the 9 or 211 to Turnham Green.
Ealing to Hendon Replaced by a new Inner loop service from Ealing Broadway to Brent Cross, but serving Wembley rather than using the North Circular all the way. Via the 483 from Ealing to Wembley, then the 182 to Neasden and 112 to Brent Cross.
Harrow to Barnet Covered by routes mentioned above, operating between Heathrow and Edgware, and between Edgware and Chingford.
And in addition to all the above, I would also add an additional route in North London to complete the Inner loop, operating between Brent Cross and Walthamstow Central - via Hendon, Finchley, Muswell Hill, Turnpike Lane, Tottenham Hale and Blackhorse Road.
|
|
|
Post by COBO on May 5, 2024 2:58:18 GMT
Express route running between Baker Street and Uxbridge.
Via: Baker Street Marylebone Road Marylebone Flyover Westway Savoy Circus Western Avenue Gypsy Corner Hanger Green Park Royal Station South Greenford Station Freezland Way Double run via Long Lane for Hillingdon Station Western Avenue Swakeleys Roundabout Park Road Chipendale Way York Road
Purpose: An express route along the A40.
|
|
|
Post by sdaniel on May 5, 2024 11:49:57 GMT
Express route running between Baker Street and Uxbridge. Via: Baker Street Marylebone Road Marylebone Flyover Westway Savoy Circus Western Avenue Gypsy Corner Hanger Green Park Royal Station South Greenford Station Freezland Way Double run via Long Lane for Hillingdon Station Western Avenue Swakeleys Roundabout Park Road Chipendale Way York Road Purpose: An express route along the A40. This would surely support the 18’s capacity from an angle. Nice idea.
|
|