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Post by greenboy on Jan 15, 2022 11:08:23 GMT
Peak loading from East Croydon to Old Coulsdon justify an 8 min frequency - I am often left behind at the stop by the first bus in Purley on my weekly trek on the 466. Reducing the service would for me make it pretty much unusable. Thats good to know. So really Croydon to Old Coulsdon is the busiest stretch of the 466? The 466 has quite a bit of school traffic but obviously that's only for a few hours a day during term. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 15, 2022 11:21:09 GMT
Thats good to know. So really Croydon to Old Coulsdon is the busiest stretch of the 466? The 466 has quite a bit of school traffic but obviously that's only for a few hours a day during term. Yes there's Coulsdon college by the Tudor Road aswell as an Oasis academy on Stoats Nest Road. The problem for TFl is all that traffic doesn't pay a fare. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 15, 2022 12:34:32 GMT
The 466 has quite a bit of school traffic but obviously that's only for a few hours a day during term. Yes there's Coulsdon college by the Tudor Road aswell as an Oasis academy on Stoats Nest Road. The problem for TFl is all that traffic doesn't pay a fare. Homebound is not nearly as bad as outbound on the 466 as two buses leave directly from the Oasis school grounds - one 60 and one 466, leaving Coulsdon College to take regular 466s. East Croydon to Old Coulsdon is by far the busiest section of the 466. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Jan 15, 2022 13:22:14 GMT
My N243 proposal
The Great Cambridge Road corridor is equivalent to 9bph at peak, but it is currently poorly served by the daily night network towards Central London despite the road being a trunk route as opposed to Green Lanes or Hertford Road.
I am proposing to divert the N243 to Caterhatch via the A10 to improve accessibility of the daily night bus network on Great Cambridge Road aswell plugging in the network gap between Green Lanes and Hertford Road with direct connections to Central London.
Services will run 2bph north of Tottenham Town Hall whilst the other 2bph will curtail short at Tottenham Town Hall. This is match current demand levels, though a possible frequency increase could happen if demand justifies. The route will stand on the existing bus stand at Caterhatch before picking up at on Stop M on Baynes Close heading southbound.
Feedback and comments would be appreciated.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 15, 2022 13:32:16 GMT
My N243 proposal The Great Cambridge Road corridor is equivalent to 9bph at peak, but it is currently poorly served by the daily night network towards Central London despite the road being a trunk route as opposed to Green Lanes or Hertford Road. I am proposing to divert the N243 to Caterhatch via the A10 to improve accessibility of the daily night bus network on Great Cambridge Road aswell plugging in the network gap between Green Lanes and Hertford Road with direct connections to Central London. Services will run 2bph north of Tottenham Town Hall whilst the other 2bph will curtail short at Tottenham Town Hall. This is match current demand levels, though a possible frequency increase could happen if demand justifies. The route will stand on the existing bus stand at Caterhatch before picking up at on Stop M on Baynes Close heading southbound. Feedback and comments would be appreciated. Really nice idea although could you terminate it at Brimsdown? |
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Post by YX10FFN on Jan 15, 2022 13:45:56 GMT
My N243 proposal The Great Cambridge Road corridor is equivalent to 9bph at peak, but it is currently poorly served by the daily night network towards Central London despite the road being a trunk route as opposed to Green Lanes or Hertford Road. I am proposing to divert the N243 to Caterhatch via the A10 to improve accessibility of the daily night bus network on Great Cambridge Road aswell plugging in the network gap between Green Lanes and Hertford Road with direct connections to Central London. Services will run 2bph north of Tottenham Town Hall whilst the other 2bph will curtail short at Tottenham Town Hall. This is match current demand levels, though a possible frequency increase could happen if demand justifies. The route will stand on the existing bus stand at Caterhatch before picking up at on Stop M on Baynes Close heading southbound. Feedback and comments would be appreciated. I think the 243 is a good candidate to serve the Great Cambridge Road but for starters I think the 123 should be upgraded to 24 hour daily if this were to happen to maintain the Tottenham-Wood Green night connection. Secondly adding on to LondonNorthern's point I would suggest diverting the N243 at Enfield Retail Park to go into Enfield then follow the 191 to Brimsdown. This would bring a night service to Brimsdown and North Enfield areas, and still roughly serve the northern section of Great Cambridge Road by intersecting at Carterhatch. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Jan 15, 2022 13:57:58 GMT
My N243 proposal The Great Cambridge Road corridor is equivalent to 9bph at peak, but it is currently poorly served by the daily night network towards Central London despite the road being a trunk route as opposed to Green Lanes or Hertford Road. I am proposing to divert the N243 to Caterhatch via the A10 to improve accessibility of the daily night bus network on Great Cambridge Road aswell plugging in the network gap between Green Lanes and Hertford Road with direct connections to Central London. Services will run 2bph north of Tottenham Town Hall whilst the other 2bph will curtail short at Tottenham Town Hall. This is match current demand levels, though a possible frequency increase could happen if demand justifies. The route will stand on the existing bus stand at Caterhatch before picking up at on Stop M on Baynes Close heading southbound. Feedback and comments would be appreciated. I think the 243 is a good candidate to serve the Great Cambridge Road but for starters I think the 123 should be upgraded to 24 hour daily if this were to happen to maintain the Tottenham-Wood Green night connection. Secondly adding on to LondonNorthern's point I would suggest diverting the N243 at Enfield Retail Park to go into Enfield then follow the 191 to Brimsdown. This would bring a night service to Brimsdown and North Enfield areas, and still roughly serve the northern section of Great Cambridge Road by intersecting at Carterhatch. Thanks for the feedback. I did consider routing it to Brimsdown via the 191, but this will take a less direct routing as the existing 307 takes a more direct route to Brimsdown from Enfield Retail Park during weekend nights. I did however identify a daily night bus route that will serve Brimsdown which will appear in my part 2 of my Upper Lea Valley bus study mainly focused on the Brimsdown, Enfield Lock and Ponders End areas thats currently under development. |
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Post by uakari on Jan 15, 2022 16:10:43 GMT
I think the 243 is a good candidate to serve the Great Cambridge Road but for starters I think the 123 should be upgraded to 24 hour daily if this were to happen to maintain the Tottenham-Wood Green night connection. Secondly adding on to LondonNorthern's point I would suggest diverting the N243 at Enfield Retail Park to go into Enfield then follow the 191 to Brimsdown. This would bring a night service to Brimsdown and North Enfield areas, and still roughly serve the northern section of Great Cambridge Road by intersecting at Carterhatch. Thanks for the feedback. I did consider routing it to Brimsdown via the 191, but this will take a less direct routing as the existing 307 takes a more direct route to Brimsdown from Enfield Retail Park during weekend nights. I did however identify a daily night bus route that will serve Brimsdown which will appear in my part 2 of my Upper Lea Valley bus study mainly focused on the Brimsdown, Enfield Lock and Ponders End areas thats currently under development. Except the 307 isn't running Friday and Saturday night any more, with no sign of any reintroduction of the weekend night bus routes. |
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Post by thekbq14 on Jan 16, 2022 13:34:59 GMT
Yes there's Coulsdon college by the Tudor Road aswell as an Oasis academy on Stoats Nest Road. The problem for TFl is all that traffic doesn't pay a fare. Homebound is not nearly as bad as outbound on the 466 as two buses leave directly from the Oasis school grounds - one 60 and one 466, leaving Coulsdon College to take regular 466s. East Croydon to Old Coulsdon is by far the busiest section of the 466. This is why with latest Croydon consultation the 312 now being extended via Brighton Road, hopefully that can help out the 466 with loads between East Croydon and Purley as that's the only route that serves the two places compared to the 3 that have West Croydon and Brighton Road |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 16, 2022 13:43:31 GMT
Homebound is not nearly as bad as outbound on the 466 as two buses leave directly from the Oasis school grounds - one 60 and one 466, leaving Coulsdon College to take regular 466s. East Croydon to Old Coulsdon is by far the busiest section of the 466. This is why with latest Croydon consultation the 312 now being extended via Brighton Road, hopefully that can help out the 466 with loads between East Croydon and Purley as that's the only route that serves the two places compared to the 3 that have West Croydon and Brighton Road Possibly when the 312 changes go ahead then the 466 will drop to every 10 mins with the net gain of 2 extra SDs an hour over the 166. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 16, 2022 15:15:13 GMT
My suggestion for the 466 would be drop it to every 12 or maybe even every 15 mins (not sure though if 15mins would be enough down to Old Couldson) then split the 407 into 443 as planned and 407 Sutton to Purley. So you would have the 407, 443 and 466 over the busiest section of the 466 from Croydon to Purley and allow the outer sections of the 466 to be less frequent. The Caterham on the hill section not so much as loadings to Old Coulsdon atleast are healthy but the Addington Village end is just so quiet most the day for every 8 mins which is understandable with the tram and 64/433 all down to Addington Village. Peak loading from East Croydon to Old Coulsdon justify an 8 min frequency - I am often left behind at the stop by the first bus in Purley on my weekly trek on the 466. Reducing the service would for me make it pretty much unusable. Totally agree and the 466 has always seen high loadings during the peaks which justifies its current frequency. As others have pointed out, the route serves a lot of schools on its way which contributes a significant amount of those heavy peak loadings. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2022 16:59:16 GMT
Peak loading from East Croydon to Old Coulsdon justify an 8 min frequency - I am often left behind at the stop by the first bus in Purley on my weekly trek on the 466. Reducing the service would for me make it pretty much unusable. Totally agree and the 466 has always seen high loadings during the peaks which justifies its current frequency. As others have pointed out, the route serves a lot of schools on its way which contributes a significant amount of those heavy peak loadings. Have to admit, whilst the 466 does get busy at school times, I've never seen it get so busy it must require a frequency of every 8 minutes. I mean, a couple of school journeys along the 466 would surely cover the school demand and allow the route to drop to either every 10 or 12 minutes (15 is too harsh a drop). I struggle to see how the 466 is busier than the 37 even at school loading time, try riding that one through Dulwich yet it remains stuck on every 10 minutes and it has demand that stretches right through the peaks, into the evenings and even at night due to it linking several night hot spots up. The 312 going to Old Lodge Lane via Brighton Road is going to give it more assistance in the future too not to mention it's gained added help from the 60's frequency increase & 407 double decking. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 16, 2022 20:19:41 GMT
Totally agree and the 466 has always seen high loadings during the peaks which justifies its current frequency. As others have pointed out, the route serves a lot of schools on its way which contributes a significant amount of those heavy peak loadings. Have to admit, whilst the 466 does get busy at school times, I've never seen it get so busy it must require a frequency of every 8 minutes. I mean, a couple of school journeys along the 466 would surely cover the school demand and allow the route to drop to either every 10 or 12 minutes (15 is too harsh a drop). I struggle to see how the 466 is busier than the 37 even at school loading time, try riding that one through Dulwich yet it remains stuck on every 10 minutes and it has demand that stretches right through the peaks, into the evenings and even at night due to it linking several night hot spots up. The 312 going to Old Lodge Lane via Brighton Road is going to give it more assistance in the future too not to mention it's gained added help from the 60's frequency increase & 407 double decking. To be honest, it’s not really a question either you or I can answer properly - I’m going to know a lot more about the 466 peak loadings than you are, but you will know a lot more about the 37 than I will. I suspect the conclusion here is live and let live! |
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Post by sleckdeck on Jan 16, 2022 20:20:59 GMT
18: Withdrawn between Sudbury and Wembley triangle. Extend to Kings Cross.
27: Re-extend back to Chiswick Business Park, TFL did Hounslow council dirty there.
33: Convert to DD with the 65’s SPs
371: Convert to DD with BCE’s and existing VH’s.
237: Withdrawn between Hounslow Heath and Hounslow Bell corner. Possibly given an LT allocation as a result.
267: Extended to Teddington Broad street. May require conventionals however.
H22: Withdrawn between Twickenham and West Middlesex hospital. Either extended to Richmond again or remanded at Twickenham.
481: Extended to Brentford County Court via 267. Frequency increased to 4bph.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 16, 2022 20:27:22 GMT
18: Withdrawn between Sudbury and Wembley triangle. Extend to Kings Cross. 27: Re-extend back to Chiswick Business Park, TFL did Hounslow council dirty there. 33: Convert to DD with the 65’s SPs 371: Convert to DD with BCE’s and existing VH’s. 237: Withdrawn between Hounslow Heath and Hounslow Bell corner. Possibly given an LT allocation as a result. 267: Extended to Teddington Broad street. May require conventionals however. H22: Withdrawn between Twickenham and West Middlesex hospital. Either extended to Richmond again or remanded at Twickenham. 481: Extended to Brentford County Court via 267. Frequency increased to 4bph. This is totally implausible! What would replace the 18 to Sudbury, and it doesn't need to be extended to King's Cross. The 371 is fine with SD's, two DD's (actually 5 atm) are allocated for school journeys where the most demand is. The Chiswick High Road was deemed to be overbussed, and you can't just add a route to a corridor as TfL did the local council 'dirty'! The 267 doesn't need an extension, and where would it stand anyway? Same goes for the 237, there is no spare stand space at the Bell. And the H22; hospital links are solid gold right now (hence why I am always saying that Richmond NEEDS a direct hospital link). Is there enough demand for the 481 to be increased as it has just gone from 45 to 87 capacity buses? |
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