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Post by danorak on Jan 13, 2022 12:14:13 GMT
Interesting that even the tender specs have the curtailment arrangement to stand on Monk Street which means passengers are dumped off on Grand Depot Road, must be quite confusing especially as the bus would show "Woolwich" implying it will go into the town centre. Why would passengers be dropped off on Grand Depot Road when there are numerous places to set down in the town centre already? The 178 comes from the same direction as the 122 and stands on Monk Street, last stop is Thomas Street, although most people alight at Woolwich Arsenal Station (Stop L). It does seem barmy but that is what the tender specs say (last stop: Naafi Messing Store). I suppose it's like that because the next normal 122 stop is beyond Thomas Street. Whether that's how it operates in reality is another question. |
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js11
Cleaner
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Post by js11 on Jan 14, 2022 16:16:05 GMT
Route 35: Withdrawn between Shoreditch High Street and Wormwood Street and instead rerouted to Aldgate via Fenchurch Street to connect Fenchurch Street Station with London Bridge and Elephant And Castle.
Route 344: Extended to Shoreditch High Street.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 14, 2022 16:16:59 GMT
Route 35: Withdrawn between Shoreditch High Street and Wormwood Street and instead rerouted to Aldgate via Fenchurch Street to connect Fenchurch Street Station with London Bridge and Elephant And Castle. Route 344: Extended to Shoreditch High Street. Would a 115 extension not make more sense than the 35 being diverted? |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 14, 2022 17:07:56 GMT
Route 35: Withdrawn between Shoreditch High Street and Wormwood Street and instead rerouted to Aldgate via Fenchurch Street to connect Fenchurch Street Station with London Bridge and Elephant And Castle. Route 344: Extended to Shoreditch High Street. Would a 115 extension not make more sense than the 35 being diverted? A 115 extension is a good idea but considering some of the ideas we've had lately, the 35 & 344 ones are actually pretty decent on the whole as not too many people travel from the southern end of the 35 to Shoreditch and it restores a bus link to Fenchurch Street Station which should have at least one bus serving it. |
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js11
Cleaner
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Post by js11 on Jan 14, 2022 17:08:19 GMT
Route 35: Withdrawn between Shoreditch High Street and Wormwood Street and instead rerouted to Aldgate via Fenchurch Street to connect Fenchurch Street Station with London Bridge and Elephant And Castle. Route 344: Extended to Shoreditch High Street. Would a 115 extension not make more sense than the 35 being diverted? Maybe but 115 to where London Bridge? Isnt there already lots of routes there? There is 12 route that serve London Bridge and 13 if you include the new route 733. Although there isnt any that goes directly into East London except for 388. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 14, 2022 17:39:56 GMT
The 115 comes up a lot but really can't see a huge demand from the east! Can we please have some better links west before heading south.
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Post by cl54 on Jan 14, 2022 17:41:19 GMT
199: Extended from Bellingham to Bromley North via 320. 320: Withdrawn between Bromley North and Bellingham. 335: Rerouted from Blackheath Royal Standard via Charlton Road, Charlton Church Lane and 486 LOR to North Greenwich. This links Kidbrooke and the Royal Standard to the retail parks in Charlton. Extended from Kidbrooke to Grove Park via Kidbrooke Park Road and 261 LOR to link Grove Park and Burnt Ash Hill to Kidbrooke, Blackheath and North Greenwich. Tudway Road loop withdrawn, with an increased 178 compensating this, 24 hour service introduced to provide Kidbrooke Village with a night bus. 422: Night service introduced. To provide East Wickham and some areas of Belvedere with a night service. 672: AM journeys introduced from Woolwich to Thamesmead. N53: Extended from Plumstead Station to Erith via 99 LOR. To provide a night service to West Heath and Upper Belvedere. Also extended from Whitehall to Oxford Circus. N75: New night route from Croydon Town Centre to Woolwich via 75 LOR to Lewisham, then 122 LOR to Woolwich Common and 161 LOR to Woolwich. Provides Selhurst, Norwood Junction, the area around Sydenham station, Perry Vale, Eltham Green, Well Hall, QE Hospital and Woolwich Common with a night service, and links Woolwich to Lewisham at night. Having lugged a lot of shopping back from the Charlton retail parks yesterday, I am all in favour of tweaking the 335. I suspect Charlton Church Lane would struggle to accommodate another service though: perhaps the 380 could run direct via Victoria Way. I'm not convinced a night 422 is needed or a service across Bostall Heath via the 99. The old N53 routeing might be a compromise. Routeing it via Charlton Church Lane was in the consultation before the route started. There was opposition as it would add significant journey time in getting to/from North Greenwich. It is unfortunate that TfL declined the offer from the retail park developer to include a stand for the 202 to be extended from Blackheath Royal Standard. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 14, 2022 19:10:33 GMT
It is unfortunate that TfL declined the offer from the retail park developer to include a stand for the 202 to be extended from Blackheath Royal Standard. To be honest I see TfL’s point. There would be a lot of overbussing, and the 202 has plenty enough traffic to contend with without further extending it. |
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Post by thekbq14 on Jan 15, 2022 0:22:57 GMT
194 - Extended to Thornton Heath High Street, If route length is too long could be withdrawn between Elmers End and Lower Sydenham
198 - Diverted at East Croydon to Caterham-On-The-Hill
353 - Withdrawn between Forestdale and Addington Village, Extended to West Croydon via route 466
433 - Double run Forestdale loop
466 - Withdrawn
I know these changes made have probably been discussed and scrutinized on here before. But I think it makes sense, 194 and 198 have the same x12 frequencies however 198 is a much more popular route compared to the 194 in terms of loading. Despite this they serve similar areas so can be swapped quiet easily. 194 still serves Shurblands and also gives West Wickham a hospital link as well. 194 between Shurblands and Lower Sydenham is the less busy part of the route even compared to 358 and 227 with less traffic in this part especially West Wickham, Eden Park so time can be made, 356 also goes through a similar route to the 194 as well which could be ammended. 466 has had people comment on it's eastern side not going anywhere of use which won't be the case with 353 giving a link between Croydon and Orpington.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 15, 2022 2:16:03 GMT
194 - Extended to Thornton Heath High Street, If route length is too long could be withdrawn between Elmers End and Lower Sydenham 198 - Diverted at East Croydon to Caterham-On-The-Hill 353 - Withdrawn between Forestdale and Addington Village, Extended to West Croydon via route 466 433 - Double run Forestdale loop 466 - Withdrawn I know these changes made have probably been discussed and scrutinized on here before. But I think it makes sense, 194 and 198 have the same x12 frequencies however 198 is a much more popular route compared to the 194 in terms of loading. Despite this they serve similar areas so can be swapped quiet easily. 194 still serves Shurblands and also gives West Wickham a hospital link as well. 194 between Shurblands and Lower Sydenham is the less busy part of the route even compared to 358 and 227 with less traffic in this part especially West Wickham, Eden Park so time can be made, 356 also goes through a similar route to the 194 as well which could be ammended. 466 has had people comment on it's eastern side not going anywhere of use which won't be the case with 353 giving a link between Croydon and Orpington. Extending to Thornton Heath High Street would likely make it lengthy especially when London Road & Thornton Heath itself play up - that's not to mention no replacement of the link to Lower Sydenham from Elmers End which might be quieter than the 227 & 358 but both do not run to Lower Sydenham and both routes, especially the former, are very busy in their own right and anything that helps assist them even if only a little bit on one particular section is a help. The only major issue I have with the 466 is it's too frequent - no way should it be every 8 minutes and you could argue it could sit at every 12 minutes and not cause too much issues for passengers. It's laughable that this got a frequency increase when the Brighton Road corridor was already boosted by the 60's frequency increase which was deserved and the 407's deserved double decking whereas other very busy routes like the 37 continue to sit at every 10 minutes when it could easily be every 8 by now or even something like the 118 which should be every 10 minutes now. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 15, 2022 8:14:55 GMT
194 - Extended to Thornton Heath High Street, If route length is too long could be withdrawn between Elmers End and Lower Sydenham 198 - Diverted at East Croydon to Caterham-On-The-Hill 353 - Withdrawn between Forestdale and Addington Village, Extended to West Croydon via route 466 433 - Double run Forestdale loop 466 - Withdrawn I know these changes made have probably been discussed and scrutinized on here before. But I think it makes sense, 194 and 198 have the same x12 frequencies however 198 is a much more popular route compared to the 194 in terms of loading. Despite this they serve similar areas so can be swapped quiet easily. 194 still serves Shurblands and also gives West Wickham a hospital link as well. 194 between Shurblands and Lower Sydenham is the less busy part of the route even compared to 358 and 227 with less traffic in this part especially West Wickham, Eden Park so time can be made, 356 also goes through a similar route to the 194 as well which could be ammended. 466 has had people comment on it's eastern side not going anywhere of use which won't be the case with 353 giving a link between Croydon and Orpington. I agree completely and I think returning the 353 to Croydon will put some new life back into the route, it's pretty dead in it's current form. It could be increased to 4/5bph, the 466 is ridiculously over bussed. The 194 could perhaps be extended just to TH and the 64 to Thornton Heath High Street although the Elmers End to Lower Sydenham section is pretty quiet and largely duplicated by the 75 and 358. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 15, 2022 8:16:29 GMT
My suggestion for the 466 would be drop it to every 12 or maybe even every 15 mins (not sure though if 15mins would be enough down to Old Couldson) then split the 407 into 443 as planned and 407 Sutton to Purley. So you would have the 407, 443 and 466 over the busiest section of the 466 from Croydon to Purley and allow the outer sections of the 466 to be less frequent.
The Caterham on the hill section not so much as loadings to Old Coulsdon atleast are healthy but the Addington Village end is just so quiet most the day for every 8 mins which is understandable with the tram and 64/433 all down to Addington Village.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 15, 2022 8:22:17 GMT
194 - Extended to Thornton Heath High Street, If route length is too long could be withdrawn between Elmers End and Lower Sydenham 198 - Diverted at East Croydon to Caterham-On-The-Hill 353 - Withdrawn between Forestdale and Addington Village, Extended to West Croydon via route 466 433 - Double run Forestdale loop 466 - Withdrawn I know these changes made have probably been discussed and scrutinized on here before. But I think it makes sense, 194 and 198 have the same x12 frequencies however 198 is a much more popular route compared to the 194 in terms of loading. Despite this they serve similar areas so can be swapped quiet easily. 194 still serves Shurblands and also gives West Wickham a hospital link as well. 194 between Shurblands and Lower Sydenham is the less busy part of the route even compared to 358 and 227 with less traffic in this part especially West Wickham, Eden Park so time can be made, 356 also goes through a similar route to the 194 as well which could be ammended. 466 has had people comment on it's eastern side not going anywhere of use which won't be the case with 353 giving a link between Croydon and Orpington. Extending to Thornton Heath High Street would likely make it lengthy especially when London Road & Thornton Heath itself play up - that's not to mention no replacement of the link to Lower Sydenham from Elmers End which might be quieter than the 227 & 358 but both do not run to Lower Sydenham and both routes, especially the former, are very busy in their own right and anything that helps assist them even if only a little bit on one particular section is a help. The only major issue I have with the 466 is it's too frequent - no way should it be every 8 minutes and you could argue it could sit at every 12 minutes and not cause too much issues for passengers. It's laughable that this got a frequency increase when the Brighton Road corridor was already boosted by the 60's frequency increase which was deserved and the 407's deserved double decking whereas other very busy routes like the 37 continue to sit at every 10 minutes when it could easily be every 8 by now or even something like the 118 which should be every 10 minutes now. Isn’t the 118 more frequent off peak than it is on peak? I find that so weird. Would agree with both the 37 & 118 receiving increases. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 15, 2022 8:51:44 GMT
My suggestion for the 466 would be drop it to every 12 or maybe even every 15 mins (not sure though if 15mins would be enough down to Old Couldson) then split the 407 into 443 as planned and 407 Sutton to Purley. So you would have the 407, 443 and 466 over the busiest section of the 466 from Croydon to Purley and allow the outer sections of the 466 to be less frequent. The Caterham on the hill section not so much as loadings to Old Coulsdon atleast are healthy but the Addington Village end is just so quiet most the day for every 8 mins which is understandable with the tram and 64/433 all down to Addington Village. Peak loading from East Croydon to Old Coulsdon justify an 8 min frequency - I am often left behind at the stop by the first bus in Purley on my weekly trek on the 466. Reducing the service would for me make it pretty much unusable. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 15, 2022 11:03:35 GMT
My suggestion for the 466 would be drop it to every 12 or maybe even every 15 mins (not sure though if 15mins would be enough down to Old Couldson) then split the 407 into 443 as planned and 407 Sutton to Purley. So you would have the 407, 443 and 466 over the busiest section of the 466 from Croydon to Purley and allow the outer sections of the 466 to be less frequent. The Caterham on the hill section not so much as loadings to Old Coulsdon atleast are healthy but the Addington Village end is just so quiet most the day for every 8 mins which is understandable with the tram and 64/433 all down to Addington Village. Peak loading from East Croydon to Old Coulsdon justify an 8 min frequency - I am often left behind at the stop by the first bus in Purley on my weekly trek on the 466. Reducing the service would for me make it pretty much unusable. Thats good to know. So really Croydon to Old Coulsdon is the busiest stretch of the 466? |
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