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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 15, 2024 9:21:30 GMT
I'm not sure how TfL have got it right by cutting a large residential area off from the nearest supermarket in fact I'd say they've dropped an almighty clanger. It's not just shoppers there's also staff and Paul has mentioned the difficulty his wife now has getting to and from work. Whilst the R11 double run wasn't ideal I don't think extending the x20mins R1 service five minutes or so up the road is exactly going to break the bank. Cutting St Pauls Cray off from its nearest large supermarket was a foolish move then and is still a foolish situation now. It’s still a concern amongst a number of Tesco staff who are now obliged to make awkward connections at Crittals Corner and are obliged to have to cross dangerously fast roads. Cray Road and Sidcup Hill have also been dug up on a ridiculously regular basis meaning connections have to be made in Sidcup. Surely everyone can see the insanity of a journey from Foots Cray Tesco to St Pauls Cray having to go via Sidcup?! Just because there isn’t a fuss being made doesn’t mean it’s not still causing issues. In the greater scheme of things the R11 double run didn’t cause that many issues. Through passengers from Orpington would be using the 51 and through passengers from the Crays would use the B14 - both of which reach Sidcup quicker than the R11 with or without the double run It’s just short-sightedness from TfL but they’ll never admit they were wrong and restore a service between Tesco and the Crays either with the R11 double run or extension to the R1 as easy as either option would be What was the reason the double run was even removed in the first place? Was TfL trying to make a very small saving & believed that little to no people used the double run to the Tesco? |
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Post by greenboy on Mar 15, 2024 9:51:16 GMT
A small change that somebody in Bexleyheath suggested is the 269 and B14 swapping routes between the Hurst Road/Penhill Road roundabout and Bexleyheath. A better service via Crook Log and Danson Road and the B14 should be adequate via Bexley with the SL3 having taken a lot of the 269 custom.
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Post by DT 11 on Mar 15, 2024 9:56:36 GMT
I'm not sure how TfL have got it right by cutting a large residential area off from the nearest supermarket in fact I'd say they've dropped an almighty clanger. It's not just shoppers there's also staff and Paul has mentioned the difficulty his wife now has getting to and from work. Whilst the R11 double run wasn't ideal I don't think extending the x20mins R1 service five minutes or so up the road is exactly going to break the bank. Cutting St Pauls Cray off from its nearest large supermarket was a foolish move then and is still a foolish situation now. It’s still a concern amongst a number of Tesco staff who are now obliged to make awkward connections at Crittals Corner and are obliged to have to cross dangerously fast roads. Cray Road and Sidcup Hill have also been dug up on a ridiculously regular basis meaning connections have to be made in Sidcup. Surely everyone can see the insanity of a journey from Foots Cray Tesco to St Pauls Cray having to go via Sidcup?! Just because there isn’t a fuss being made doesn’t mean it’s not still causing issues. In the greater scheme of things the R11 double run didn’t cause that many issues. Through passengers from Orpington would be using the 51 and through passengers from the Crays would use the B14 - both of which reach Sidcup quicker than the R11 with or without the double run It’s just short-sightedness from TfL but they’ll never admit they were wrong and restore a service between Tesco and the Crays either with the R11 double run or extension to the R1 as easy as either option would be I remember you saying how dangerous that walk is and you had to pick up a Family member because the 321 was curtailed to Foots Cray. The Tesco is in such an isolated area. Something should be extended from the Crays to the Tesco. TFL do not seem to be fans of double runs. I actually wonder how long until they look into sighting bus stops along Albion Road for the SL3 as I can imagine the objective is still to stand the 269 at the Library. |
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Post by aaron1 on Mar 15, 2024 11:33:20 GMT
SL4 should be extended to Bromley North to link up with SL3 and SL5
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Post by Busboy105 on Mar 15, 2024 12:46:50 GMT
SL4 should be extended to Bromley North to link up with SL3 and SL5 Bromley North is full enough as it is |
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Post by Paul on Mar 15, 2024 13:53:02 GMT
What was the reason the double run was even removed in the first place? Was TfL trying to make a very small saving & believed that little to no people used the double run to the Tesco? I believe it was the oft-quoted ‘to improve reliabilty.’ They just forgot to add ‘at the expense of those people who use, and rely on, that link.’ It may not be a huge number of people but it was certainly a regular number of people. TfL like to hammer home that ‘every journey matters’ but that certainly wasn’t the case here. Yes, there is still a connection between the R11 and 321 but it’s far from an easy connection. It was just a very foolish thing to do I remember you saying how dangerous that walk is and you had to pick up a Family member because the 321 was curtailed to Foots Cray. The Tesco is in such an isolated area. Something should be extended from the Crays to the Tesco. TFL do not seem to be fans of double runs. I actually wonder how long until they look into sighting bus stops along Albion Road for the SL3 as I can imagine the objective is still to stand the 269 at the Library. Indeed, there was no way I was having my wife use a dark, dank, unsafe subway at 9:30 at night. She doesn’t finish that late anymore and is now always able to get a lift from either myself or her mum. So well done TfL, your ‘improvement’ has forced someone into making the journey by car since the journey by bus is now immeasurably worse Stops along Albion Road would make our lives easier but the road layout rather precludes it now and you’d have many more pedestrians wandering around that road. I think the 269 objective needs to be forgotten unless they want to spend a fair amount of money constructing bus stops in the vicinity of the Townley Road roundabout SL4 should be extended to Bromley North to link up with SL3 and SL5 As has been rightfully pointed out, Bromley North is bulging at the seams and unless TfL managed to acquire the permanently empty station car park to expand then you cannot shoehorn anything else into Bromley North However, I did ponder the possibility of Plaistow Green becoming something of a Bromley Superloop Hub with the SL3 and SL5 both terminating there and the SL4 extended down the road when it’s introduced. It’s not an ideal terminating spot but there is a fair amount of room to park up 4-6 buses on two sides of the Green without blocking things up. Toilets and possibly a mess room might have to be constructed which could prove problematic from a residents standpoint but it would easy the pressure on the Bromley North Stand considerably |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2024 15:21:22 GMT
What's the point of the 233 serving Foots Cray Tesco though? The 321 already runs from Sidcup to the Tesco (at a very high frequency!), the missing link to Tesco is from Orpington and the Crays, that used to be provided by the R11 doing a double run but this was removed. I thought initially the 233 was being rerouted to provide Swanley with a link to the Tesco, but any 233 users wanting a Tesco can use the one in Sidcup as previously mentioned. I agree the 321 is more than adequate in serving the Tesco. Swanley has an Asda that’s the size of an airport, but if they want Tesco it’s only a short walk from Ruxley Corner anyway. The no right turn out of Tesco towards Ruxley Corner would make the detour absolutely tedious and would add another 5 minutes onto journeys between Swanley and Foots Cray/Sidcup, let alone when there’s traffic. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2024 15:24:36 GMT
No need it can stand in Foots Cray Tesco. No need to go any further. How many buses can the 321’s stand take? Depends on whether the stand would be able to take in the B14 & R6 alongside the existing 321. The most I’ve seen standing there at one time was 4 321’s. Though one was just parked in the space where delivery lorries need to get in. As a daily user of the 233 between Sidcup and Swanley for family commitments, making it in direct and having to go around Tesco would be awful. My mum would be fuming as well, adding to her journey to and from work every day. The route is un-reliable as it is, they often just cut entire services out throughout the day without any explanation. Adding to it’s length and making it do a tour around Foots Cray is the last thing that’s needed for it. Swanley residents are already screwed over by being a stone’s throw out of Greater London and having to rely on absolutely appalling bus services. Arriva’s 477 to Dartford and Orpington that comes once an hour if it can be arsed, the frequency having be slashed in half along with it’s Sunday and evening services axed, and it’s link to Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater ripped away. Go Coach’s 429 that has a few services to Dartford a day and out into the wilderness of West Kingsdown. And Go Coach’s 2, with two services a day out to Sevenoaks. The 233 is a life-line to Swanley, along with trains to Bromley South and Central London. The people just want to get into Sidcup and Eltham as quickly as possible to be able to get onward connections to the rest of South East London. They don’t want to do a tour around Tesco. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2024 15:32:51 GMT
Cutting St Pauls Cray off from its nearest large supermarket was a foolish move then and is still a foolish situation now. It’s still a concern amongst a number of Tesco staff who are now obliged to make awkward connections at Crittals Corner and are obliged to have to cross dangerously fast roads. Cray Road and Sidcup Hill have also been dug up on a ridiculously regular basis meaning connections have to be made in Sidcup. Surely everyone can see the insanity of a journey from Foots Cray Tesco to St Pauls Cray having to go via Sidcup?! Just because there isn’t a fuss being made doesn’t mean it’s not still causing issues. In the greater scheme of things the R11 double run didn’t cause that many issues. Through passengers from Orpington would be using the 51 and through passengers from the Crays would use the B14 - both of which reach Sidcup quicker than the R11 with or without the double run It’s just short-sightedness from TfL but they’ll never admit they were wrong and restore a service between Tesco and the Crays either with the R11 double run or extension to the R1 as easy as either option would be What was the reason the double run was even removed in the first place? Was TfL trying to make a very small saving & believed that little to no people used the double run to the Tesco? The R11 used to get caught in traffic along Edgington Way when there was bother on the A20. Making journeys between St Mary Cray/St Paul’s Cray and Foots Cray/Sidcup longer. But removing the link between St Paul’s Cray and it’s nearest large supermarket was very daft. I think they should have extended the R1 to Tesco for sure. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2024 15:43:48 GMT
A small change that somebody in Bexleyheath suggested is the 269 and B14 swapping routes between the Hurst Road/Penhill Road roundabout and Bexleyheath. A better service via Crook Log and Danson Road and the B14 should be adequate via Bexley with the SL3 having taken a lot of the 269 custom. Yeah that could work, I’ve often thought that. Hurst Road having both the 229 & 269 is a bit much compared to going through Blendon and Crook Log which just gets the every half an hour B14. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 15, 2024 17:05:31 GMT
How many buses can the 321’s stand take? Depends on whether the stand would be able to take in the B14 & R6 alongside the existing 321. The most I’ve seen standing there at one time was 4 321’s. Though one was just parked in the space where delivery lorries need to get in. As a daily user of the 233 between Sidcup and Swanley for family commitments, making it in direct and having to go around Tesco would be awful. My mum would be fuming as well, adding to her journey to and from work every day. The route is un-reliable as it is, they often just cut entire services out throughout the day without any explanation. Adding to it’s length and making it do a tour around Foots Cray is the last thing that’s needed for it. Swanley residents are already screwed over by being a stone’s throw out of Greater London and having to rely on absolutely appalling bus services. Arriva’s 477 to Dartford and Orpington that comes once an hour if it can be arsed, the frequency having be slashed in half along with it’s Sunday and evening services axed, and it’s link to Darent Valley Hospital and Bluewater ripped away. Go Coach’s 429 that has a few services to Dartford a day and out into the wilderness of West Kingsdown. And Go Coach’s 2, with two services a day out to Sevenoaks. The 233 is a life-line to Swanley, along with trains to Bromley South and Central London. The people just want to get into Sidcup and Eltham as quickly as possible to be able to get onward connections to the rest of South East London. They don’t want to do a tour around Tesco. I agree the 233 shouldn’t be rerouted via the Tesco it’s a fairly long reroute (especially for those heading towards Swanley) & there are other stores along the 233 route already & it wouldn’t benefit those in Sidcup/Eltham as there is the 321. It’s definitely much more important to reinstate the link from Orpington/St Mary’s Cray to the Tesco, though it would likely have to be via double run due to the stands getting crowded. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 15, 2024 17:06:52 GMT
What was the reason the double run was even removed in the first place? Was TfL trying to make a very small saving & believed that little to no people used the double run to the Tesco? The R11 used to get caught in traffic along Edgington Way when there was bother on the A20. Making journeys between St Mary Cray/St Paul’s Cray and Foots Cray/Sidcup longer. But removing the link between St Paul’s Cray and its nearest large supermarket was very daft. I think they should have extended the R1 to Tesco for sure. So essentially tfl pulled an R7 here, where they decided to remove a stop that some people were using in order to improve the reliability of the route for everyone else who did not use the Tesco Stop. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2024 17:31:15 GMT
The R11 used to get caught in traffic along Edgington Way when there was bother on the A20. Making journeys between St Mary Cray/St Paul’s Cray and Foots Cray/Sidcup longer. But removing the link between St Paul’s Cray and its nearest large supermarket was very daft. I think they should have extended the R1 to Tesco for sure. So essentially tfl pulled an R7 here, where they decided to remove a stop that some people were using in order to improve the reliability of the route for everyone else who did not use the Tesco Stop. Yeah pretty much. It had served it for donkey’s years, since the late 80s when it was opened and it was always well used as that Tesco is much closer to St Paul’s Cray than the one in Orpington. This was before the Aldi’s and Lidl’s opened opposite eachother down Sevenoaks Way though which help. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Mar 15, 2024 17:51:40 GMT
So essentially tfl pulled an R7 here, where they decided to remove a stop that some people were using in order to improve the reliability of the route for everyone else who did not use the Tesco Stop. Yeah pretty much. It had served it for donkey’s years, since the late 80s when it was opened and it was always well used as that Tesco is much closer to St Paul’s Cray than the one in Orpington. This was before the Aldi’s and Lidl’s opened opposite eachother down Sevenoaks Way though which help. Do you know if the R11 was failing to meet reliability standards like the R7 was? |
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Post by DT 11 on Mar 15, 2024 18:08:29 GMT
What was the reason the double run was even removed in the first place? Was TfL trying to make a very small saving & believed that little to no people used the double run to the Tesco? I believe it was the oft-quoted ‘to improve reliabilty.’ They just forgot to add ‘at the expense of those people who use, and rely on, that link.’ It may not be a huge number of people but it was certainly a regular number of people. TfL like to hammer home that ‘every journey matters’ but that certainly wasn’t the case here. Yes, there is still a connection between the R11 and 321 but it’s far from an easy connection. It was just a very foolish thing to do I remember you saying how dangerous that walk is and you had to pick up a Family member because the 321 was curtailed to Foots Cray. The Tesco is in such an isolated area. Something should be extended from the Crays to the Tesco. TFL do not seem to be fans of double runs. I actually wonder how long until they look into sighting bus stops along Albion Road for the SL3 as I can imagine the objective is still to stand the 269 at the Library. Indeed, there was no way I was having my wife use a dark, dank, unsafe subway at 9:30 at night. She doesn’t finish that late anymore and is now always able to get a lift from either myself or her mum. So well done TfL, your ‘improvement’ has forced someone into making the journey by car since the journey by bus is now immeasurably worse Stops along Albion Road would make our lives easier but the road layout rather precludes it now and you’d have many more pedestrians wandering around that road. I think the 269 objective needs to be forgotten unless they want to spend a fair amount of money constructing bus stops in the vicinity of the Townley Road roundabout SL4 should be extended to Bromley North to link up with SL3 and SL5 As has been rightfully pointed out, Bromley North is bulging at the seams and unless TfL managed to acquire the permanently empty station car park to expand then you cannot shoehorn anything else into Bromley North However, I did ponder the possibility of Plaistow Green becoming something of a Bromley Superloop Hub with the SL3 and SL5 both terminating there and the SL4 extended down the road when it’s introduced. It’s not an ideal terminating spot but there is a fair amount of room to park up 4-6 buses on two sides of the Green without blocking things up. Toilets and possibly a mess room might have to be constructed which could prove problematic from a residents standpoint but it would easy the pressure on the Bromley North Stand considerably I used the Grove Park to Bromley North Line for the first time two weeks ago. Bromley North Station car park is actually pointless. |
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