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Post by sdaniel on May 5, 2024 11:57:51 GMT
I think that new superloop from Ealing Broadway to Hendon should run from Ealing Broadway to North Finchley with Double Deckers via 112’s current way to North Finchley on the A40 (North Circular Road).
Also with that, if that change happens, the 112 should either be curtailed to Brent Cross Shopping Centre or rerouted to Mill Hill East via Hendon Central, Middlesex University then following 240’s way to MHE.
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2024 12:27:31 GMT
I think that new superloop from Ealing Broadway to Hendon should run from Ealing Broadway to North Finchley with Double Deckers via 112’s current way to North Finchley on the A40 (North Circular Road). Also with that, if that change happens, the 112 should either be curtailed to Brent Cross Shopping Centre or rerouted to Mill Hill East via Hendon Central, Middlesex University then following 240’s way to MHE. Not local but I don’t see the point of re-routing the 112 to Mill Hill East when the 240 copes perfectly well presumably between Hendon & Mill Hill East. I think it should be left as is with the Superloop route routed towards Arnos Grove instead
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Post by borneobus on May 5, 2024 12:32:32 GMT
Express route running between Baker Street and Uxbridge. Via: Baker Street Marylebone Road Marylebone Flyover Westway Savoy Circus Western Avenue Gypsy Corner Hanger Green Park Royal Station South Greenford Station Freezland Way Double run via Long Lane for Hillingdon Station Western Avenue Swakeleys Roundabout Park Road Chipendale Way York Road Purpose: An express route along the A40. This would surely support the 18’s capacity from an angle. Nice idea. Agreed. It is a nice idea...and different...I wonder if it would result in some commuters preferring to sit on a bus looking at their phone in an A40 traffic jam rather than sit in their car...however if the commute is Uxbridge / Hillingdon -> Baker St they will still most likely take the Metropolitan Line (unless LU is on strike!). Think you need a way COBO to fit in stops at the Target Roundabout but appreciate that ain't easy.
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Post by sdaniel on May 5, 2024 12:35:50 GMT
I think that new superloop from Ealing Broadway to Hendon should run from Ealing Broadway to North Finchley with Double Deckers via 112’s current way to North Finchley on the A40 (North Circular Road). Also with that, if that change happens, the 112 should either be curtailed to Brent Cross Shopping Centre or rerouted to Mill Hill East via Hendon Central, Middlesex University then following 240’s way to MHE. Not local but I don’t see the point of re-routing the 112 to Mill Hill East when the 240 copes perfectly well presumably between Hendon & Mill Hill East. I think it should be left as is with the Superloop route routed towards Arnos Grove instead At least rerouting the 112 would give a direct link between Brent Cross Shopping Centre and Mill Hill East especially as there is a lot of housing developments going on around Mill Hill East and more notably the Brent Cross Town development.
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2024 12:38:42 GMT
Express route running between Baker Street and Uxbridge. Via: Baker Street Marylebone Road Marylebone Flyover Westway Savoy Circus Western Avenue Gypsy Corner Hanger Green Park Royal Station South Greenford Station Freezland Way Double run via Long Lane for Hillingdon Station Western Avenue Swakeleys Roundabout Park Road Chipendale Way York Road Purpose: An express route along the A40. This would surely support the 18’s capacity from an angle. Nice idea. I’m not sure it’s the best way to do so - Inner London needs its congestion reduced to start implementing loads of express options as buses would just simply be sitting in the same traffic as their stopping counterparts. I think the 18 needs another regular route running alongside it instead
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Post by southlondon413 on May 5, 2024 12:53:02 GMT
This would surely support the 18’s capacity from an angle. Nice idea. I’m not sure it’s the best way to do so - Inner London needs its congestion reduced to start implementing loads of express options as buses would just simply be sitting in the same traffic as their stopping counterparts. I think the 18 needs another regular route running alongside it instead Surely by tackling congestion which allows buses to move faster the need for an express bus is rendered moot.
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2024 13:54:55 GMT
I’m not sure it’s the best way to do so - Inner London needs its congestion reduced to start implementing loads of express options as buses would just simply be sitting in the same traffic as their stopping counterparts. I think the 18 needs another regular route running alongside it instead Surely by tackling congestion which allows buses to move faster the need for an express bus is rendered moot. Not really - they’re implemented outside London where congestion is far lower and some of the existing Superloop routes run on corridors that don’t see too much congestion so I don’t see how that’s an issue personally. No point introducing an express bus if it’s just going to sit in tons of traffic
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Post by southlondon413 on May 5, 2024 14:17:54 GMT
Surely by tackling congestion which allows buses to move faster the need for an express bus is rendered moot. Not really - they’re implemented outside London where congestion is far lower and some of the existing Superloop routes run on corridors that don’t see too much congestion so I don’t see how that’s an issue personally. No point introducing an express bus if it’s just going to sit in tons of traffic That’s kind of my point. Resolving the traffic issues first with radical approaches like one way streets taking traffic away from main roads or more end of road blockades to limit exits from side streets and introducing more 24 hour bus lanes could improve the traffic situation. If all that failed to improve bus speeds then yes an express route is an answer. Even in the outer suburbs this approach would improve speeds. I think TfL would be better to take a more nuanced approach particularly in heavy traffic areas before dumping more buses on the streets. Express routes are normally popular outside of London because towns tend to be less well connected by other forms of transport and it helps moves one small population centre from a village to a city for example. That just doesn’t seem as much of an issue in London as apart from the non-TfL bus desert that is the outer south you aren’t ever that far from another form of TfL travel. There just aren’t that many comparable rural areas versus an express bus in Yorkshire or wherever. Express routes have their place but whereas they have genuine benefit in rural areas connecting them to cities or larger towns, in London they just distract from the actual issues that affect the stopping bus network and in my eyes just rob Peter to pay Paul (as the saying goes).
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Post by southlondonbus on May 5, 2024 16:13:32 GMT
This would surely support the 18’s capacity from an angle. Nice idea. I’m not sure it’s the best way to do so - Inner London needs its congestion reduced to start implementing loads of express options as buses would just simply be sitting in the same traffic as their stopping counterparts. I think the 18 needs another regular route running alongside it instead Plus a feature I do find with the 18 and 25 (and probably 53, 109 and other busy routes) is that people really do get on and off at every stop meaning a limited stop route would be missing so much demand really for the route.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 5, 2024 17:14:38 GMT
Not local but I don’t see the point of re-routing the 112 to Mill Hill East when the 240 copes perfectly well presumably between Hendon & Mill Hill East. I think it should be left as is with the Superloop route routed towards Arnos Grove instead At least rerouting the 112 would give a direct link between Brent Cross Shopping Centre and Mill Hill East especially as there is a lot of housing developments going on around Mill Hill East and more notably the Brent Cross Town development. I agree a link from Brent Cross to Mill Hill East would be useful, but I'm not sure the 112 would be the best route to do so. The 112 doesn't need to be replaced by a Superloop route, it wouldn't offer much advantage as the North Circular is relatively quick already. However, I did previously suggest introducing a new route at Brent Cross, which would cover some new roads around Hendon and Mill Hill, continuing to Mill Hill East and onwards - along with a wider restructure around the Finchley area: 351 - New route from Brent Cross to Arnos Grove, via Hendon Central, The Quadrant, Parson Street, Great North Way, Page Street, Pursley Road, Devonshire Road, Mill Hill East Station, Inglis Way and Frith Lane - then the 221 to North Finchley, 125/263 to Whetstone, and the 251 to Arnos Grove. 251 - Withdrawn between Arnos Grove and Whetstone, and instead extended to Barnet via the 234. Introducing a direct link from Mill Hill and Totteridge to Barnet. 382 - Withdrawn between Mill Hill East and Finchley Central, and instead extended to Golders Green, via Regents Park Road, East End Road, Ossulton Way, Kingsley Way, Meadway and Hoop Lane. Providing a more direct and higher-capacity service through Hampstead Garden Suburb. H2/H3 - Merged into one loop (no longer serving Meadway), and operating in both directions. Combining the current H3 with the northern half of the H2's loop. 221 - Diverted between Mill Hill East and North Finchley, via Dollis Road, Finchley Central Station and Ballards Lane. Introducing a direct link from Finchley Central to Mill Hill, Edgware and Wood Green.
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2024 17:43:46 GMT
At least rerouting the 112 would give a direct link between Brent Cross Shopping Centre and Mill Hill East especially as there is a lot of housing developments going on around Mill Hill East and more notably the Brent Cross Town development. I agree a link from Brent Cross to Mill Hill East would be useful, but I'm not sure the 112 would be the best route to do so. The 112 doesn't need to be replaced by a Superloop route, it wouldn't offer much advantage as the North Circular is relatively quick already. However, I did previously suggest introducing a new route at Brent Cross, which would cover some new roads around Hendon and Mill Hill, continuing to Mill Hill East and onwards - along with a wider restructure around the Finchley area: 351 - New route from Brent Cross to Arnos Grove, via Hendon Central, The Quadrant, Parson Street, Great North Way, Page Street, Pursley Road, Devonshire Road, Mill Hill East Station, Inglis Way and Frith Lane - then the 221 to North Finchley, 125/263 to Whetstone, and the 251 to Arnos Grove. 251 - Withdrawn between Arnos Grove and Whetstone, and instead extended to Barnet via the 234. Introducing a direct link from Mill Hill and Totteridge to Barnet. 382 - Withdrawn between Mill Hill East and Finchley Central, and instead extended to Golders Green, via Regents Park Road, East End Road, Ossulton Way, Kingsley Way, Meadway and Hoop Lane. Providing a more direct and higher-capacity service through Hampstead Garden Suburb. H2/H3 - Merged into one loop (no longer serving Meadway), and operating in both directions. Combining the current H3 with the northern half of the H2's loop. 221 - Diverted between Mill Hill East and North Finchley, via Dollis Road, Finchley Central Station and Ballards Lane. Introducing a direct link from Finchley Central to Mill Hill, Edgware and Wood Green. There is no need to make so many changes just for a particular link between Mill Hill East & Brent Cross and I think the H2 & H3 changes would be very detrimental to existing users
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Post by wirewiper on May 6, 2024 8:26:30 GMT
At least rerouting the 112 would give a direct link between Brent Cross Shopping Centre and Mill Hill East especially as there is a lot of housing developments going on around Mill Hill East and more notably the Brent Cross Town development. I agree a link from Brent Cross to Mill Hill East would be useful, but I'm not sure the 112 would be the best route to do so. The 112 doesn't need to be replaced by a Superloop route, it wouldn't offer much advantage as the North Circular is relatively quick already. However, I did previously suggest introducing a new route at Brent Cross, which would cover some new roads around Hendon and Mill Hill, continuing to Mill Hill East and onwards - along with a wider restructure around the Finchley area: 351 - New route from Brent Cross to Arnos Grove, via Hendon Central, The Quadrant, Parson Street, Great North Way, Page Street, Pursley Road, Devonshire Road, Mill Hill East Station, Inglis Way and Frith Lane - then the 221 to North Finchley, 125/263 to Whetstone, and the 251 to Arnos Grove. 251 - Withdrawn between Arnos Grove and Whetstone, and instead extended to Barnet via the 234. Introducing a direct link from Mill Hill and Totteridge to Barnet. 382 - Withdrawn between Mill Hill East and Finchley Central, and instead extended to Golders Green, via Regents Park Road, East End Road, Ossulton Way, Kingsley Way, Meadway and Hoop Lane. Providing a more direct and higher-capacity service through Hampstead Garden Suburb. H2/H3 - Merged into one loop (no longer serving Meadway), and operating in both directions. Combining the current H3 with the northern half of the H2's loop. 221 - Diverted between Mill Hill East and North Finchley, via Dollis Road, Finchley Central Station and Ballards Lane. Introducing a direct link from Finchley Central to Mill Hill, Edgware and Wood Green. What's your thinking behind merging the H2 and H3 into one route? The H3 was created originally so that the H2 could be shortened, by omitting little-used roads (these were served instead by the H3), and operated at a regular 15-minute frequency. The bus saved by shortening the H2 was reassigned to the H3 and to the schoolday 631 (oriiginally H1) journeys. It's a very efficient use of resources and gives the H2 users, who are the vast majority, a faster, evenly-spaced service.
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Post by ronnie on May 6, 2024 8:39:56 GMT
I’m not sure it’s the best way to do so - Inner London needs its congestion reduced to start implementing loads of express options as buses would just simply be sitting in the same traffic as their stopping counterparts. I think the 18 needs another regular route running alongside it instead Plus a feature I do find with the 18 and 25 (and probably 53, 109 and other busy routes) is that people really do get on and off at every stop meaning a limited stop route would be missing so much demand really for the route. On the flip side on precisely these routes there are several passengers who do long commutes - some even doing it all the way; with quite a few doing 40-70% of the route. I have now done the 53 several times between elephant and castle and Blackheath royal standard and the bus (at 9am westbound, at 5pm, 8pm, 9pm, midnight eastbound) and there are so many people doing large chunks of the route
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Post by wirewiper on May 6, 2024 9:12:43 GMT
Plus a feature I do find with the 18 and 25 (and probably 53, 109 and other busy routes) is that people really do get on and off at every stop meaning a limited stop route would be missing so much demand really for the route. On the flip side on precisely these routes there are several passengers who do long commutes - some even doing it all the way; with quite a few doing 40-70% of the route. I have now done the 53 several times between elephant and castle and Blackheath royal standard and the bus (at 9am westbound, at 5pm, 8pm, 9pm, midnight eastbound) and there are so many people doing large chunks of the route There is presumably a "convenience factor" at play here too - many people will be making these long journeys because the bus stops at origin and destination offer a much more convenient journey than the rail alternatives. In the 53 case, the route offers a direct (and high-frequency) service towards Central London from parts of Charlton and Blackheath that are not conveniently served by rail. This is why I would be reluctant to reduce the all-stops service on such radial routes.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 6, 2024 9:51:06 GMT
I agree a link from Brent Cross to Mill Hill East would be useful, but I'm not sure the 112 would be the best route to do so. The 112 doesn't need to be replaced by a Superloop route, it wouldn't offer much advantage as the North Circular is relatively quick already. However, I did previously suggest introducing a new route at Brent Cross, which would cover some new roads around Hendon and Mill Hill, continuing to Mill Hill East and onwards - along with a wider restructure around the Finchley area: 351 - New route from Brent Cross to Arnos Grove, via Hendon Central, The Quadrant, Parson Street, Great North Way, Page Street, Pursley Road, Devonshire Road, Mill Hill East Station, Inglis Way and Frith Lane - then the 221 to North Finchley, 125/263 to Whetstone, and the 251 to Arnos Grove. 251 - Withdrawn between Arnos Grove and Whetstone, and instead extended to Barnet via the 234. Introducing a direct link from Mill Hill and Totteridge to Barnet. 382 - Withdrawn between Mill Hill East and Finchley Central, and instead extended to Golders Green, via Regents Park Road, East End Road, Ossulton Way, Kingsley Way, Meadway and Hoop Lane. Providing a more direct and higher-capacity service through Hampstead Garden Suburb. H2/H3 - Merged into one loop (no longer serving Meadway), and operating in both directions. Combining the current H3 with the northern half of the H2's loop. 221 - Diverted between Mill Hill East and North Finchley, via Dollis Road, Finchley Central Station and Ballards Lane. Introducing a direct link from Finchley Central to Mill Hill, Edgware and Wood Green. What's your thinking behind merging the H2 and H3 into one route? The H3 was created originally so that the H2 could be shortened, by omitting little-used roads (these were served instead by the H3), and operated at a regular 15-minute frequency. The bus saved by shortening the H2 was reassigned to the H3 and to the schoolday 631 (oriiginally H1) journeys. It's a very efficient use of resources and gives the H2 users, who are the vast majority, a faster, evenly-spaced service. The 382 idea is to provide an even more direct and simplified service through Hampstead Garden Suburb, since some of the roads are wide enough to fit longer SDs, therefore also providing more capacity. Also some new links to the North, including from the area around East End Road to Golders Green. Most roads currently served by the H2 would only be a short walk away from my proposed 382 routeing, so passengers would benefit from a quicker link to Golders Green by removing the loop, just operating in both directions via Meadway. Some H2 passengers may currently have a fast link in one direction, but have to go all around the rest of the loop in the other direction. The only exception to this would be the area to the north of the H2's loop around Asmuns Hill, though here it's very close to stops on the main road for the 13/102/460. The revised H2/H3 merger would operate at a lower frequency than the current H2 to maintain a service to the local roads (also crosslinking to the 631), for any passengers who can't walk to the 382 etc, but would also operate in both directions to avoid going round the full loop for shorter journeys. This would also offer passengers to the east of the Suburb a more frequent link to East Finchley than the current H3 service. My proposals also aim to give the 382 more purpose beyond Finchley Central, linking more areas of Finchley down to Golders Green. As I think the Mill Hill East section needs a higher capacity route, particularly considering the redevelopments there, so rerouteing the 221 in place to go via Finchley Central would cover this, while also creating various new links.
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