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Post by wirewiper on May 6, 2024 10:27:20 GMT
What's your thinking behind merging the H2 and H3 into one route? The H3 was created originally so that the H2 could be shortened, by omitting little-used roads (these were served instead by the H3), and operated at a regular 15-minute frequency. The bus saved by shortening the H2 was reassigned to the H3 and to the schoolday 631 (oriiginally H1) journeys. It's a very efficient use of resources and gives the H2 users, who are the vast majority, a faster, evenly-spaced service. The 382 idea is to provide an even more direct and simplified service through Hampstead Garden Suburb, since some of the roads are wide enough to fit longer SDs, therefore also providing more capacity. Also some new links to the North, including from the area around East End Road to Golders Green. Most roads currently served by the H2 would only be a short walk away from my proposed 382 routeing, so passengers would benefit from a quicker link to Golders Green by removing the loop, just operating in both directions via Meadway. Some H2 passengers may currently have a fast link in one direction, but have to go all around the rest of the loop in the other direction. The only exception to this would be the area to the north of the H2's loop around Asmuns Hill, though here it's very close to stops on the main road for the 13/102/460. The revised H2/H3 merger would operate at a lower frequency than the current H2 to maintain a service to the local roads (also crosslinking to the 631), for any passengers who can't walk to the 382 etc, but would also operate in both directions to avoid going round the full loop for shorter journeys. This would also offer passengers to the east of the Suburb a more frequent link to East Finchley than the current H3 service. My proposals also aim to give the 382 more purpose beyond Finchley Central, linking more areas of Finchley down to Golders Green. As I think the Mill Hill East section needs a higher capacity route, particularly considering the redevelopments there, so rerouteing the 221 in place to go via Finchley Central would cover this, while also creating various new links. Ah I see - I'd missed that you are putting the 382 through HGS. I still think the H2 works well in its present form though, it is a short and reliable feeder for the Tube at Golders Green and also the local shops. And the people who have the longest journey into Golders Green are dropped off first on the return so it evens out.
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 6, 2024 10:59:02 GMT
I agree a link from Brent Cross to Mill Hill East would be useful, but I'm not sure the 112 would be the best route to do so. The 112 doesn't need to be replaced by a Superloop route, it wouldn't offer much advantage as the North Circular is relatively quick already. However, I did previously suggest introducing a new route at Brent Cross, which would cover some new roads around Hendon and Mill Hill, continuing to Mill Hill East and onwards - along with a wider restructure around the Finchley area: 351 - New route from Brent Cross to Arnos Grove, via Hendon Central, The Quadrant, Parson Street, Great North Way, Page Street, Pursley Road, Devonshire Road, Mill Hill East Station, Inglis Way and Frith Lane - then the 221 to North Finchley, 125/263 to Whetstone, and the 251 to Arnos Grove. 251 - Withdrawn between Arnos Grove and Whetstone, and instead extended to Barnet via the 234. Introducing a direct link from Mill Hill and Totteridge to Barnet. 382 - Withdrawn between Mill Hill East and Finchley Central, and instead extended to Golders Green, via Regents Park Road, East End Road, Ossulton Way, Kingsley Way, Meadway and Hoop Lane. Providing a more direct and higher-capacity service through Hampstead Garden Suburb. H2/H3 - Merged into one loop (no longer serving Meadway), and operating in both directions. Combining the current H3 with the northern half of the H2's loop. 221 - Diverted between Mill Hill East and North Finchley, via Dollis Road, Finchley Central Station and Ballards Lane. Introducing a direct link from Finchley Central to Mill Hill, Edgware and Wood Green. There is no need to make so many changes just for a particular link between Mill Hill East & Brent Cross and I think the H2 & H3 changes would be very detrimental to existing users If you want a link between Mill Hill East and Brent Cross your best bet would be doing something with a route terminating there at present! No way can you fit more another route into the stands
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Post by southlondonbus on May 6, 2024 11:11:39 GMT
There is no need to make so many changes just for a particular link between Mill Hill East & Brent Cross and I think the H2 & H3 changes would be very detrimental to existing users If you want a link between Mill Hill East and Brent Cross your best bet would be doing something with a route terminating there at present! No way can you fit more another route into the stands Maybe the 268 could do it with an extension from GG to Brent X then onto Mill Hill and allow the 210 to shift to the GG to Stamford Hill.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 7, 2024 11:41:24 GMT
I’ve been thinking about giving Clapton a link towards Tottenham which it currently doesn’t have at the moment. The 425 was what was initially proposed but now that would be far too long. I wonder if though the 277 could be restructured to run between Crossharbour & Tottenham Hale. I would have it swap routings with the D8 between Crossharbour & Canary Wharf. The 277 would then take the 425’s LOR to Clapton Pond, the 253/254 to Stamford Hill, then the 76 to Tottenham Hale. The 41 could extend to Meridian Water to provide stand space & more capacity on the busy 192 corridor. The 425 would divert to Dalston Junction & the 308 could be extended to Kenninghall Road, if that needs a bus service.
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Post by ADH45258 on May 7, 2024 12:39:24 GMT
I’ve been thinking about giving Clapton a link towards Tottenham which it currently doesn’t have at the moment. The 425 was what was initially proposed but now that would be far too long. I wonder if though the 277 could be restructured to run between Crossharbour & Tottenham Hale. I would have it swap routings with the D8 between Crossharbour & Canary Wharf. The 277 would then take the 425’s LOR to Clapton Pond, the 253/254 to Stamford Hill, then the 76 to Tottenham Hale. The 41 could extend to Meridian Water to provide stand space & more capacity on the busy 192 corridor. The 425 would divert to Dalston Junction & the 308 could be extended to Kenninghall Road, if that needs a bus service. I personally think the 277/425 are best left as they are, but would instead suggest looking more at the A10 corridor. The 243 is quite indirect, so could be restructured to operate from Wood Green to Stamford Hill as present, then diverting via Clapton to cover the link you suggest, and continuing onwards to Stratford via Hackney Central and Hackney Wick - providing various new links across NE London. Then reroute the 242 to Waterloo, and extend the 67 back to Aldgate. And maybe also extend the 349 to Dalston if capacity needs to be replaced here? Or alternatively you could just look at splitting the 425 into two routes, without involving any other routes. Introduce a new route from Tottenham to Stratford as TFL had previously suggested (via Mile End). Then divert the existing 425 to operate more directly between Stratford and Hackney, going via Hackney Wick instead of Bow and Mile End.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 7, 2024 13:57:41 GMT
I’ve been thinking about giving Clapton a link towards Tottenham which it currently doesn’t have at the moment. The 425 was what was initially proposed but now that would be far too long. I wonder if though the 277 could be restructured to run between Crossharbour & Tottenham Hale. I would have it swap routings with the D8 between Crossharbour & Canary Wharf. The 277 would then take the 425’s LOR to Clapton Pond, the 253/254 to Stamford Hill, then the 76 to Tottenham Hale. The 41 could extend to Meridian Water to provide stand space & more capacity on the busy 192 corridor. The 425 would divert to Dalston Junction & the 308 could be extended to Kenninghall Road, if that needs a bus service. I personally think the 277/425 are best left as they are, but would instead suggest looking more at the A10 corridor. The 243 is quite indirect, so could be restructured to operate from Wood Green to Stamford Hill as present, then diverting via Clapton to cover the link you suggest, and continuing onwards to Stratford via Hackney Central and Hackney Wick - providing various new links across NE London. Then reroute the 242 to Waterloo, and extend the 67 back to Aldgate. And maybe also extend the 349 to Dalston if capacity needs to be replaced here? Or alternatively you could just look at splitting the 425 into two routes, without involving any other routes. Introduce a new route from Tottenham to Stratford as TFL had previously suggested (via Mile End). Then divert the existing 425 to operate more directly between Stratford and Hackney, going via Hackney Wick instead of Bow and Mile End. There might also be the option to split the 308 as that is very indirect too. The 308 could be revised to run between Stratford & Tottenham Hale, via present route to Clapton Pond then up my proposed 277 to Tottenham. Then a new 408 route could be introduced to run between Stratford & Woodford Bridge, via the current 308 to Wanstead & the current W14 to Woodford, once the Woodford bus changes take place. The W12 would be left as it is now under this scenario.
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Post by vjaska on May 7, 2024 14:53:28 GMT
I personally think the 277/425 are best left as they are, but would instead suggest looking more at the A10 corridor. The 243 is quite indirect, so could be restructured to operate from Wood Green to Stamford Hill as present, then diverting via Clapton to cover the link you suggest, and continuing onwards to Stratford via Hackney Central and Hackney Wick - providing various new links across NE London. Then reroute the 242 to Waterloo, and extend the 67 back to Aldgate. And maybe also extend the 349 to Dalston if capacity needs to be replaced here? Or alternatively you could just look at splitting the 425 into two routes, without involving any other routes. Introduce a new route from Tottenham to Stratford as TFL had previously suggested (via Mile End). Then divert the existing 425 to operate more directly between Stratford and Hackney, going via Hackney Wick instead of Bow and Mile End. There might also be the option to split the 308 as that is very indirect too. The 308 could be revised to run between Stratford & Tottenham Hale, via present route to Clapton Pond then up my proposed 277 to Tottenham. Then a new 408 route could be introduced to run between Stratford & Woodford Bridge, via the current 308 to Wanstead & the current W14 to Woodford, once the Woodford bus changes take place. The W12 would be left as it is now under this scenario. Or rather than messing about with several routes to achieve one small aim, just extend the 349 to Clapton. It already serves Tottenham and could probably handle a small extension to Clapton and would not need, IMO, unnecessary meddling elsewhere.
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Post by LK65EBO on May 7, 2024 15:13:13 GMT
Had a few (possibly more fantasy) ideas for some routes around me
423: Withdrawn E8: Extended from Hounslow, Bell Corner to Hatton Cross Station via route 423 237: Withdrawn between Hounslow Heath and Hounslow, Bell Corner 278: Withdrawn from operating to Heathrow Central. Extended to Heathrow Terminal 5 via 423
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ZiyQ
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Post by ZiyQ on May 7, 2024 18:08:36 GMT
There might also be the option to split the 308 as that is very indirect too. The 308 could be revised to run between Stratford & Tottenham Hale, via present route to Clapton Pond then up my proposed 277 to Tottenham. Then a new 408 route could be introduced to run between Stratford & Woodford Bridge, via the current 308 to Wanstead & the current W14 to Woodford, once the Woodford bus changes take place. The W12 would be left as it is now under this scenario. Or rather than messing about with several routes to achieve one small aim, just extend the 349 to Clapton. It already serves Tottenham and could probably handle a small extension to Clapton and would not need, IMO, unnecessary meddling elsewhere. That could definitely work well, though a further extension to Hackney Central via the 56 (or Hackney Wick via the 30) might provide much better links from Tottenham and Enfield to Hackney and the East.
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Post by B9TL205 on May 7, 2024 18:12:54 GMT
I’ve been thinking about giving Clapton a link towards Tottenham which it currently doesn’t have at the moment. The 425 was what was initially proposed but now that would be far too long. I wonder if though the 277 could be restructured to run between Crossharbour & Tottenham Hale. I would have it swap routings with the D8 between Crossharbour & Canary Wharf. The 277 would then take the 425’s LOR to Clapton Pond, the 253/254 to Stamford Hill, then the 76 to Tottenham Hale. The 41 could extend to Meridian Water to provide stand space & more capacity on the busy 192 corridor. The 425 would divert to Dalston Junction & the 308 could be extended to Kenninghall Road, if that needs a bus service. Crossharbour - Tottenham Hale isn't as good as you think, I'm sure there's better ideas than making existing routes much lengthier Dalston - Ilford (425) isn't realistic either, just make a new route if you want a North London link heading towards Clapton
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Post by sdaniel on May 7, 2024 20:17:29 GMT
Or rather than messing about with several routes to achieve one small aim, just extend the 349 to Clapton. It already serves Tottenham and could probably handle a small extension to Clapton and would not need, IMO, unnecessary meddling elsewhere. That could definitely work well, though a further extension to Hackney Central via the 56 (or Hackney Wick via the 30) might provide much better links from Tottenham and Enfield to Hackney and the East. No, extending it further than Clapton Pond would slightly affect the reliability of 349’s route since there are already suggestions to extend the route to Waltham Cross. Clapton Pond is good enough because there are many interchanges there to further east such as the 106, 308 or the 425.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 7, 2024 20:25:57 GMT
There might also be the option to split the 308 as that is very indirect too. The 308 could be revised to run between Stratford & Tottenham Hale, via present route to Clapton Pond then up my proposed 277 to Tottenham. Then a new 408 route could be introduced to run between Stratford & Woodford Bridge, via the current 308 to Wanstead & the current W14 to Woodford, once the Woodford bus changes take place. The W12 would be left as it is now under this scenario. Or rather than messing about with several routes to achieve one small aim, just extend the 349 to Clapton. It already serves Tottenham and could probably handle a small extension to Clapton and would not need, IMO, unnecessary meddling elsewhere. I personally don’t mind splitting the 308 in Stratford anyway, I can clearly see that the 308 is a route designed to link the areas of Wanstead & Homerton/Clapton to Stratford & it’s uncommon to see people using the route to go through Stratford. Plus if the 408 took over the W14 to Woodford Bridge instead of the W12, the W12 wouldn’t need to be changed under the Woodford bus proposals. That set of changes is moreso for benefiting multiple areas rather than just one goal of creating a round corner link at Stamford Hill.
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Post by greg on May 7, 2024 21:01:53 GMT
There might also be the option to split the 308 as that is very indirect too. The 308 could be revised to run between Stratford & Tottenham Hale, via present route to Clapton Pond then up my proposed 277 to Tottenham. Then a new 408 route could be introduced to run between Stratford & Woodford Bridge, via the current 308 to Wanstead & the current W14 to Woodford, once the Woodford bus changes take place. The W12 would be left as it is now under this scenario. Or rather than messing about with several routes to achieve one small aim, just extend the 349 to Clapton. It already serves Tottenham and could probably handle a small extension to Clapton and would not need, IMO, unnecessary meddling elsewhere. Minor adjustments I’d make is extending the 349 to Hackney Central via Upper Clapton, Lower Clapton and Mare Street as the 253 does. The area seems rather secluded from the north bar trunk route 254. Id reroute the 253 to Homerton Hospital from Clapton Girls Academy via Jack Dunning Estate and Homerton Station. Provides the link to Homerton directly when many people from Upper Clapton and Stamford Hill areas are referred there with no direct link bar the complicated 276 at Stokey. That is all.
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ZiyQ
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Post by ZiyQ on May 8, 2024 1:07:56 GMT
That could definitely work well, though a further extension to Hackney Central via the 56 (or Hackney Wick via the 30) might provide much better links from Tottenham and Enfield to Hackney and the East. No, extending it further than Clapton Pond would slightly affect the reliability of 349’s route since there are already suggestions to extend the route to Waltham Cross. Clapton Pond is good enough because there are many interchanges there to further east such as the 106, 308 or the 425. I think an extension of the 349 north of Ponders End is quite unlikely, and would achieve far less than an extension further south. Areas such as Hackney Central have good links in all directions apart from North, and a 349 extension further than Clapton would both enable much faster and convenient interchange onto other routes as the 277, 236, 276 and W15 (though the W15 connection might require a longer walk), and fill in quite a significant gap in the bus network. The 349's reliability should not be affected much, especially considering that its current reliability is quite good, the bus lanes on this section of the A107, and the added reliability if the 56's routing from Clapton to Hackney Central is used.
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ZiyQ
Cleaner
I am new here, but I have a lot to say about London's buses - perhaps too much sometimes...
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Post by ZiyQ on May 8, 2024 1:17:47 GMT
Or rather than messing about with several routes to achieve one small aim, just extend the 349 to Clapton. It already serves Tottenham and could probably handle a small extension to Clapton and would not need, IMO, unnecessary meddling elsewhere. Minor adjustments I’d make is extending the 349 to Hackney Central via Upper Clapton, Lower Clapton and Mare Street as the 253 does. The area seems rather secluded from the north bar trunk route 254. Id reroute the 253 to Homerton Hospital from Clapton Girls Academy via Jack Dunning Estate and Homerton Station. Provides the link to Homerton directly when many people from Upper Clapton and Stamford Hill areas are referred there with no direct link bar the complicated 276 at Stokey. That is all. The 253 following the 425's routing (from what I can see) to Homerton Hospital could prove a useful extra link to the hospital, but it would make the route miss Hackney Central, which has a lot better connections than Homerton Hospital. I think the borough of Hackney have been pushing for a 253 reroute to Homerton Hospital for a long time now, and it has been mentioned on this forum multiple times before that the main thing preventing this from happening is the LTs that the 253 uses failing the route test around Homerton Hospital. That would mean a change in vehicle type of the 253, making it quite operationally inconvenient to run the 253 out of Clapton, which is currently a full LT garage.
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