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Post by SILENCED on Feb 21, 2022 10:13:03 GMT
The TfL funding deal has been extended until Friday....this is just absurd now It is getting beyond ridiculous. It would be far more efficient to set a realistic interim date for both parties to complete verification and review of information and come to an agreement. I feel for staff members caught in the crossfire between the mayor and the government. I would hope to see some sensible measures from TfL around the vehicles used for the backlogged tender awards. It wouldn’t surprise me to see an unusual amount of “holds” as the timeframe has shortened a fair bit between award and live operations. Also shiny new electrics are not going to arrive soon enough for some of those routes and neither is hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure. I think holds using existing vehicles until new vehicles are available may be TfL’s trump card here. Or perhaps we’ll see the 92 awarded to Abellio GW with Scania’s loaned from Stagecoach 🤣 I wonder what the sticking points that neither side will budge on are.
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 21, 2022 10:26:47 GMT
The TfL funding deal has been extended until Friday....this is just absurd now It is getting beyond ridiculous. It would be far more efficient to set a realistic interim date for both parties to complete verification and review of information and come to an agreement. I feel for staff members caught in the crossfire between the mayor and the government. I would hope to see some sensible measures from TfL around the vehicles used for the backlogged tender awards. It wouldn’t surprise me to see an unusual amount of “holds” as the timeframe has shortened a fair bit between award and live operations. Also shiny new electrics are not going to arrive soon enough for some of those routes and neither is hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure. I think holds using existing vehicles until new vehicles are available may be TfL’s trump card here. Or perhaps we’ll see the 92 awarded to Abellio GW with Scania’s loaned from Stagecoach 🤣 I don’t think an interim date would help, it would simply push the issue further down the line and if no agreement was made in that period TfL would be in even further trouble. I think there needs to be some give on both sides. The government needs to recognise that TfL, regardless of how it is managed, is a vital resource to millions of people and should be treated as such. On the other hand though I think TfL needs to recognise that it should focus on its core offerings, i.e. tube, rail and buses, trams, Woolwich ferry, and stop the farcical walking/cycling/river programs. Go back to basics as they say and stop focusing on projects like cycle highways that don’t bring in revenue but alienate those fare paying passengers. But both sides need to get it together and make it work.
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Post by ronnie on Feb 21, 2022 11:18:18 GMT
It is getting beyond ridiculous. It would be far more efficient to set a realistic interim date for both parties to complete verification and review of information and come to an agreement. I feel for staff members caught in the crossfire between the mayor and the government. I would hope to see some sensible measures from TfL around the vehicles used for the backlogged tender awards. It wouldn’t surprise me to see an unusual amount of “holds” as the timeframe has shortened a fair bit between award and live operations. Also shiny new electrics are not going to arrive soon enough for some of those routes and neither is hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure. I think holds using existing vehicles until new vehicles are available may be TfL’s trump card here. Or perhaps we’ll see the 92 awarded to Abellio GW with Scania’s loaned from Stagecoach 🤣 I don’t think an interim date would help, it would simply push the issue further down the line and if no agreement was made in that period TfL would be in even further trouble. I think there needs to be some give on both sides. The government needs to recognise that TfL, regardless of how it is managed, is a vital resource to millions of people and should be treated as such. On the other hand though I think TfL needs to recognise that it should focus on its core offerings, i.e. tube, rail and buses, trams, Woolwich ferry, and stop the farcical walking/cycling/river programs. Go back to basics as they say and stop focusing on projects like cycle highways that don’t bring in revenue but alienate those fare paying passengers. But both sides need to get it together and make it work. Ultimately it’s about the clash of egos between the government on one hand and the mayor on the other. The government will fund but will run the mayor to the ground cuz there is no love lost
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Post by TB123 on Feb 25, 2022 12:18:53 GMT
Funding deal extended until June 24th. Inlcudes commitment to £400m of operational savings in 22/23 financial year. Capital funding settlement still being agreed.
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Post by M1104 on Feb 25, 2022 13:23:25 GMT
Funding deal extended until June 24th. Inlcudes commitment to £400m of operational savings in 22/23 financial year. Capital funding settlement still being agreed. I'm 'guessing' tender results can now recommence, particularly the ones outstanding.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 25, 2022 13:51:33 GMT
Funding deal extended until June 24th. Inlcudes commitment to £400m of operational savings in 22/23 financial year. Capital funding settlement still being agreed. I'm 'guessing' tender results can now recommence, particularly the ones outstanding. Reading a article on the Evening Standard website suggests this is more a short term extension and they hope to finalise a deal before the end of the financial year which will cover future investment. So I am not sure tenders can commence again? Others here probably know more so don’t take my word on it.
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 25, 2022 14:03:20 GMT
I'm 'guessing' tender results can now recommence, particularly the ones outstanding. Reading a article on the Evening Standard website suggests this is more a short term extension and they hope to finalise a deal before the end of the financial year which will cover future investment. So I am not sure tenders can commence again? Others here probably know more so don’t take my word on it. I don’t think operators would be keen to sign any new deals when TfLs future is still not certain. 5-7 year bus leases are not a good thing to lock in now when TfL could still realistically go belly up. So operators and TfL might agree deals in principle with no financial obligations until they are in a better state to announce them, slap around a few non-disclosures to senior management to allow for planning but no formal confirmations.
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Post by snowman on Feb 25, 2022 16:29:12 GMT
Official Government details of funding deal www.gov.uk/government/news/government-agrees-200-million-deal-to-keep-vital-transport-for-london-services-runningThe government has today (25 February 2022) agreed a fourth extraordinary funding settlement for Transport for London (TfL) worth £200 million, allowing the capital’s transport network to continue to operate while representing value for money for all taxpayers. The settlement will run until 24 June 2022, reaffirming the government’s commitment to the network as it recovers from the pandemic and continues to work towards long-term financial sustainability. Recognising the need for stability and forward planning, the new deal also includes the potential for a longer-term capital investment settlement for TfL. This would be agreed ahead of the next financial year and will be dependent on the Mayor and TfL’s cooperation with the government, including providing sufficient information regarding its capital investment plans and meeting conditions set out in the previous settlement. In this funding settlement, the Mayor will consult on the options he believes will raise between £500 million and £1 billion of additional yearly revenue from 2023. He will also be outlining options to achieve operating cost savings of up to £400 million in 2022 to 2023 and delivering against TfL’s accelerated modernisation plan while making significant progress in moving the pension fund into a financially sustainable position. Throughout this period, government will continue to work closely with the Mayor and TfL to ensure London’s transport system delivers for Londoners and contributes to the entire country’s economic recovery while maintaining the interests of national taxpayers.
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Post by TB123 on Feb 25, 2022 20:03:50 GMT
I'm 'guessing' tender results can now recommence, particularly the ones outstanding. Reading a article on the Evening Standard website suggests this is more a short term extension and they hope to finalise a deal before the end of the financial year which will cover future investment. So I am not sure tenders can commence again? Others here probably know more so don’t take my word on it. Gather that some "time critical" route tenders will be announced soon having been paused. Especially given that some routes begin new contracts, at least on paper, just a few weeks of so after the (revised) funding deal expiry date.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 25, 2022 20:59:04 GMT
Operating cost savings of £400m will undoubtedly hit the bus network due to them having to be made by 2022/23. After 2023 assistance may be available for capital expenditure but not that day to day running which needs to to streamlined and met with an increase on revenue is how I read it to be.
Either way early March I think it will be announced about the 168 and 271 with the changes happening by the end of the year to meet some of the criteria.
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Post by YX10FFN on Feb 25, 2022 22:08:46 GMT
Reading a article on the Evening Standard website suggests this is more a short term extension and they hope to finalise a deal before the end of the financial year which will cover future investment. So I am not sure tenders can commence again? Others here probably know more so don’t take my word on it. Gather that some "time critical" route tenders will be announced soon having been paused. Especially given that some routes begin new contracts, at least on paper, just a few weeks of so after the (revised) funding deal expiry date. Further delay to tenders until late June/early July would create headaches even for the tenders set to be announced this month. For the Sutton routes and 92/190 that's only giving operators around 5 months to prepare, which is generally not enough time for new bus orders, especially what we have seen with electric batch introduction recently. The operators would be right in being frustrated at further delay and backlog.
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Post by snowman on Feb 25, 2022 22:49:38 GMT
Gather that some "time critical" route tenders will be announced soon having been paused. Especially given that some routes begin new contracts, at least on paper, just a few weeks of so after the (revised) funding deal expiry date. Further delay to tenders until late June/early July would create headaches even for the tenders set to be announced this month. For the Sutton routes and 92/190 that's only giving operators around 5 months to prepare, which is generally not enough time for new bus orders, especially what we have seen with electric batch introduction recently. The operators would be right in being frustrated at further delay and backlog. If TfL delay, then an Operator is unlikely to commit to new buses, even with a vague Heads Up that they expected to win. We also know that some potential build slots have been taken whilst TfL dithered, eg the 130 new E400 EVs for Coventry. It is likely some Operators gaining routes will not be able to source buses in time and have to borrow some (if others let them)
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Post by YX10FFN on Feb 26, 2022 0:36:09 GMT
www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tfl-secures-short-term-funding-deal-from-the-government-52295/Much more clear and concise way (as he very often does) of explaining the ins and outs of the new deal. Personally I find some of the conditions (such as any revenue received over the targets be returned to the government) still worrying and TFL's issues are far from being solved. "government will continue to work closely with the Mayor and TfL" = "government will continue to helicopter parent TFL and potentially stall growth"
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Feb 26, 2022 18:29:21 GMT
I read somewhere that 2021 saw the fewest new buses for the UK since records began. This is despite a modest influx of new buses for London, and fewer across the country than even 1987 & 1991. This should enable new buses for London tenders to commence building relatively swiftly. Admittedly there is still the matter of bus manufacturers still needing to order and receive parts. But this makes the need for new buses for London less dire than we might at first think.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 27, 2022 18:13:18 GMT
Just read elsewhere the the Cable Car has failed to find a new sponsor so this will be a further drain on TfL finances once the current deal runs out.
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