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Post by busman on Apr 27, 2020 14:49:14 GMT
Me personally, I think it's far too early to start even predicting route withdrawals and such given we don't known when lockdown will continue on for and how people will react - realistically, there are two possible outcomes as to how people will behave: 1) people will continue to be very cautious and not use the transport network, preferring to stay indoors 2) people will go out even more than they did before the lockdown happens and use the transport network a lot If I was choose, whats more likely to happen, I'd have to say that 2) would be more likely given there is plenty of evidence to suggest that people are actively breaking lockdown conditions so when lockdown is eventually officially dismissed, there could be surge of people wanting to be out & about more often after the experience of staying in for weeks/months on end. Even if we do go down the road of cutting routes, key workers will still continue to use public transport and given many key workers are low paid, it may even see usage increase after the lockdown is lifted so there are many variables in play. busman I do agree with your points 1 to 3 though maybe scrap the hopper fare entirely if it can save some money financially but right now until the picture becomes clearer on usage once we leave lockdown whenever that maybe, I'd personally hold fire on withdrawing routes except for scrapping the Crossrail changes entirely (244 double decking the only exception) and revisiting them further down the line but it's only my own personal opinion. A couple of questions/thoughts: Even if there is a surge in people going out, does that necessarily translate into increased bus usage? Particularly if we have a gradual lifting on social distancing measures, under those circumstances crowding onto a bus with people outside of your close circle of friends/family probably won’t be advised or desirable. I’m thinking TfL and unions will want to protect their drivers as well to avoid buses being crowded for the foreseeable future. Conversely, that might remove the option of savage frequency cuts during busier times of day, but as snowman mentioned, a situation where we see dramatic cuts in off-peak frequency isn’t unthinkable. I would certainly prefer that, than to see entire routes withdrawn. With regard to scrapping Crossrail changes - I think we may see TfL keen to implement. The changes were quite canny. It wasn’t a give away...more like give with one hand and take away with the other. TfL have dished out plenty of the good stuff with new routes in West and South East London, but without the pain - such as diversion of the 427 and various cutbacks in SE London. These have already been consulted on, so in theory some quick wins are available and can be positioned with some positive spin. One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is anything about cuts in back office staff, but then again I’m not sure how much is left to cut! I know we all complain about how TfL customer service and bus information has deteriorated over the last 5 years, but I think the next set of cuts will be far more visible to all passengers. We may all be producing our own bus information in future via technology providers and clever use of data. Above all, I hope Sadiq Khan reconsiders his pledge to freeze bus fares for another 5 years if elected, but so far he seems to be good at keeping his manifesto promises. If he gets re-elected, that pledge alone will force TfL to make deeper cuts. Perhaps his cunning plan is to hike tube fares so much, that bus travel suddenly becomes much more attractive and there is a significant modal shift from tube to bus 🤣 |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 27, 2020 22:44:47 GMT
Maybe HCT will pull out of London, sell to Tower Transit who would close HK and reallocate routes to AW & LI. Arriva may then mothball CT and move routes to AE. A precedent here is that, after HCT subsidiary MCT lost a load of routes in Manchester & Oldham, they closed their operation last weekend with remaining routes, mainly in Stockport & Trafford, passing to Rotala Diamond. I doubt Stagecoach would buy any extra London operations as, according to May's Buses magazine page 7, they are not currently looking into any acquistions. But at the same time HCT have won a number of tenders just across the Pennines in Huddersfield so doesn't really add up. MCT were in a bad way when HCT purchased them. They thought they could turn things around, but realised the job was to big for them, that is why they are quitting Manchester ... the London operations do not appear to be in such a predicament. What routes did they win in Huddersfield? Don't HCT have a division in Leeds too? |
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 28, 2020 2:15:25 GMT
But at the same time HCT have won a number of tenders just across the Pennines in Huddersfield so doesn't really add up. MCT were in a bad way when HCT purchased them. They thought they could turn things around, but realised the job was to big for them, that is why they are quitting Manchester ... the London operations do not appear to be in such a predicament. What routes did they win in Huddersfield? Don't HCT have a division in Leeds too? They got most of TLCs work |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 28, 2020 13:00:43 GMT
What routes did they win in Huddersfield? Don't HCT have a division in Leeds too? They got most of TLCs work Wonder if it includes the 375? |
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 28, 2020 13:26:49 GMT
They got most of TLCs work Wonder if it includes the 375? Not seen the full list, but reported on West Yorkshire transport from, which I thought you were a member of, all bar 901/2 |
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Post by YY13VKP on Apr 28, 2020 13:36:11 GMT
Wonder if it includes the 375? Not seen the full list, but reported on West Yorkshire transport from, which I thought you were a member of, all bar 901/2 Just seen it, haven't visited there since I've been back in London. I had no idea TLC had significantly scaled back their operations so it'll be interesting to see CT Plus in Huddersfield. Hopefully they make use of some ex London stuff there! |
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 28, 2020 14:08:09 GMT
Not seen the full list, but reported on West Yorkshire transport from, which I thought you were a member of, all bar 901/2 Just seen it, haven't visited there since I've been back in London. I had no idea TLC had significantly scaled back their operations so it'll be interesting to see CT Plus in Huddersfield. Hopefully they make use of some ex London stuff there! Probably stuff from Manchester more likely. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on May 2, 2020 11:40:01 GMT
But at the same time HCT have won a number of tenders just across the Pennines in Huddersfield so doesn't really add up. MCT were in a bad way when HCT purchased them. They thought they could turn things around, but realised the job was to big for them, that is why they are quitting Manchester ... the London operations do not appear to be in such a predicament. What routes did they win in Huddersfield? Don't HCT have a division in Leeds too? In Leeds I rode route 81 (Leeds - Pudsey) last Christmas.  Further info about their current routes is available at www.hctgroup.org/ct_plus_yorkshire/bus_services_13According to the WY Bus Forum their Huddersfield gains are routes 341, 354, 355, 374, 375, 377 & 378 from May 19th. |
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Post by LK65EBO on May 3, 2020 21:40:12 GMT
What routes did they win in Huddersfield? Don't HCT have a division in Leeds too? They got most of TLCs work Am I missing something here - what is TLC? |
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Post by vjaska on May 3, 2020 21:55:20 GMT
They got most of TLCs work Am I missing something here - what is TLC? A bus operator. |
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Post by YY13VKP on May 3, 2020 21:57:12 GMT
Am I missing something here - what is TLC? A bus operator. Who operate around Huddersfield and Halifax  |
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Post by richard on May 3, 2020 21:59:38 GMT
They got most of TLCs work Am I missing something here - what is TLC? Bus operator in Yorkshire. Some services have/will be taken over by Yorkshire Tiger and TransDev. That was the rumour around February I am not sure if that went ahead. |
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Post by londonboy71 on May 18, 2020 19:53:44 GMT
I think there will be serious review, not just dabbling to bus service provision Changing (rerouting) routes will take too long, will be more of a trickle of changes However I see serious cuts to Central London bus frequency, probably 30-40% Generally I see big cuts between peaks, about 9:30 until 3pm. Yes it will make some shifts short, but the need to save money will override the inconvenience. Afternoon services will operate for a longer peak hour from school close time around 3:15 to about 7pm (maybe 7:45 in outer London where routes connect with trains) I can see savage cuts to evening, early weekend, mid morning Sunday and night services. Some routes may go down from 6-8 buses to only every 15, 20 or 30 minutes. Basically the era of mainly carrying fresh air will end. I can’t remember where it is, but few months ago, one of the TfL board (or committee) papers had the cost breakdown of all the free travel listed by type : 60+ tickets, disability tickets, staff partners tickets etc. I see serious axe to these saving £100-200 million a year. Coronavirus will be the excuse to get these killed as they are unpalatable to voters Finally, I could see evening (say after 9pm) and night services being at higher rate, say £2.50. If use services after this time your card gets charged more. Charge kids some of them only go 2 stops. No other bus company in UK gives kids free travel |
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Post by richard on May 18, 2020 20:59:58 GMT
I think there will be serious review, not just dabbling to bus service provision Changing (rerouting) routes will take too long, will be more of a trickle of changes However I see serious cuts to Central London bus frequency, probably 30-40% Generally I see big cuts between peaks, about 9:30 until 3pm. Yes it will make some shifts short, but the need to save money will override the inconvenience. Afternoon services will operate for a longer peak hour from school close time around 3:15 to about 7pm (maybe 7:45 in outer London where routes connect with trains) I can see savage cuts to evening, early weekend, mid morning Sunday and night services. Some routes may go down from 6-8 buses to only every 15, 20 or 30 minutes. Basically the era of mainly carrying fresh air will end. I can’t remember where it is, but few months ago, one of the TfL board (or committee) papers had the cost breakdown of all the free travel listed by type : 60+ tickets, disability tickets, staff partners tickets etc. I see serious axe to these saving £100-200 million a year. Coronavirus will be the excuse to get these killed as they are unpalatable to voters Finally, I could see evening (say after 9pm) and night services being at higher rate, say £2.50. If use services after this time your card gets charged more. Charge kids some of them only go 2 stops. No other bus company in UK gives kids free travel I agree kids these days have got it easy. Charge them 40p for a single fare like I had to I didn't have the luxury of zip card's when I was at school. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 18, 2020 21:06:23 GMT
Charge kids some of them only go 2 stops. No other bus company in UK gives kids free travel I agree kids these days have got it easy. Charge them 40p for a single fare like I had to I didn't have the luxury of zip card's when I was at school. I don't think the ideology "well you should charge them cause I had to pay" will get you far. We have advanced as a society, acknowledging children themselves do not have an income and still do need to get to places. I am a supporter of free child travel on the bus, however at the current time children do not need to travel so I think a temporary suspension is acceptable. However once schools do reopen and there's a sense of normality again it should be restored. |
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Further info about their current routes is available at 
