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Post by wirewiper on Apr 26, 2020 16:22:34 GMT
<snip> Finally, I could see evening (say after 9pm) and night services being at higher rate, say £2.50. If use services after this time your card gets charged more. That's contrary to what happens in a lot of places outside London. Stagecoach South West has a "Niterider" ticket which offers unlimited travel on all their services after 19.00 for £3. For a lot of journeys this is cheaper than the single fare. Reading Buses also has evening and group fares within the Reading urban area (£3 and £6 respectively) which allow travel from 18.00 until close of service, or 04.00 on 24-hour routes. However in both cases the normal commercial fares are higher than charged by TfL - for longer journeys, a lot more. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 26, 2020 16:25:30 GMT
But an operator can re lease for another contract. Stagecoach have kept their 63 reg E400s. The C3 I thought could use the hybrids/smart hybrids not needed on the 262 and 473. It all depends on whether it's worth it or not to re-lease buses that effectively you don't own which is why generally, they're the first buses to be disposed of. Only about 5 WH's will be spare once the 262 & 473 receive them and those leftover I believe might already have a use for them. |
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Post by foxhat on Apr 26, 2020 16:27:50 GMT
I would actually quite like TfL to get bus operators taking on more financial responsibility for the route contracts they run. That'll save TfL QUITE a lot of money. Obviously some routes would need a small subsidy to top them up. There are a number of little backwater routes which don't really need to run much beyond 2200 or before 0600 (exceptions do apply). Likewise routes do not need to operate A-B all day long first bus to last. Fine balance though between continuing to provide a turn up and go service and operating a financially viable network. But surely TfL should be assessing how many passengers are using a route after 2200, and if its not well used. They should be proposing it runs much less frequently or withdrawn completely. That's kind of what I'm suggesting |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 26, 2020 16:38:10 GMT
Me personally, I think it's far too early to start even predicting route withdrawals and such given we don't known when lockdown will continue on for and how people will react - realistically, there are two possible outcomes as to how people will behave: 1) people will continue to be very cautious and not use the transport network, preferring to stay indoors 2) people will go out even more than they did before the lockdown happens and use the transport network a lot If I was choose, whats more likely to happen, I'd have to say that 2) would be more likely given there is plenty of evidence to suggest that people are actively breaking lockdown conditions so when lockdown is eventually officially dismissed, there could be surge of people wanting to be out & about more often after the experience of staying in for weeks/months on end. Even if we do go down the road of cutting routes, key workers will still continue to use public transport and given many key workers are low paid, it may even see usage increase after the lockdown is lifted so there are many variables in play. busman I do agree with your points 1 to 3 though maybe scrap the hopper fare entirely if it can save some money financially but right now until the picture becomes clearer on usage once we leave lockdown whenever that maybe, I'd personally hold fire on withdrawing routes except for scrapping the Crossrail changes entirely (244 double decking the only exception) and revisiting them further down the line but it's only my own personal opinion. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Apr 26, 2020 17:14:18 GMT
Ah, now I've seen the map it does look tricky lol I'd do 209 from Mortlake to Castelnau,Castelnau,Church Road,Mill Hill Road then 485 to Wandsworth Only really misses Rocks Lane stops but there can be stops at both ends of it (Castelnau & Mill Hill Road to compensate) The one thing I'll say is that most people using the 209 are coming from Hammersmith so you're very unlikely to walk over the bridge and catch a bus to Wandsworth from Castelnau when you have got the frequent 220 from the bus station. Ah yes, I only merged it to avoid completely withdrawing the 485 route. I guess it could run to Putney Bridge instead. Mortlake to Castelnau via 209,Castelnau,Church Road,Mill Hill Road then 378 to Putney Bridge |
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Post by WSD3 on Apr 26, 2020 17:38:38 GMT
N87 cut back to every 20 minutes possible 30 minutes
38 cut back to every 12 minutes
5 cut back to every 10 minutes
18 cut back every 15 minutes also withdrawn between Sudbury and Wembley
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Post by george on Apr 26, 2020 17:49:22 GMT
The one thing I'll say is that most people using the 209 are coming from Hammersmith so you're very unlikely to walk over the bridge and catch a bus to Wandsworth from Castelnau when you have got the frequent 220 from the bus station. Ah yes, I only merged it to avoid completely withdrawing the 485 route. I guess it could run to Putney Bridge instead. Mortlake to Castelnau via 209,Castelnau,Church Road,Mill Hill Road then 378 to Putney Bridge I do agree that these routes will probably have changes but I don't think merging the 209 and 378 into one route is a good idea only because it makes the route very circular. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 26, 2020 17:52:31 GMT
But an operator can re lease for another contract. Stagecoach have kept their 63 reg E400s. The C3 I thought could use the hybrids/smart hybrids not needed on the 262 and 473. It all depends on whether it's worth it or not to re-lease buses that effectively you don't own which is why generally, they're the first buses to be disposed of. Only about 5 WH's will be spare once the 262 & 473 receive them and those leftover I believe might already have a use for them. Maybe on a normal situation but once this is over and operators will have had to spend a large amount on sick pay, pay for drivers till the furloug period kicked in, extra cleaning etc. I think most will have spent alot of their reserved cash. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 26, 2020 18:10:08 GMT
Restricting Hopper fare to 2 buses seems reasonable. Relatively few people need to travel from point A to point B using 3 or more buses. There is a daily cap anyway so not unduly expensive to the passenger.
Where double-decks have been stood down and not required for their recent routes any time soon, they should upgrade single-decks as a reduced frequency where possible, even at a different garage. So for example, WVLs stood down from NX route 321 could move to BX for route 244, reduced to say every 12-15 minutes.
Some Saturday frequencies early morning, or in the City throughout the daytime matching Mon-Fri frequencies, seem excessive and could be cut even by just 1 bus an hour.
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 26, 2020 18:56:11 GMT
374 (formerly W3) extended from Finsbury Park to Camden / London Zoo with a high PVR of Streetlite single deckers to encourage social distancing.  Re engined with a DB250 unit from DW144, Arriva London Central's Former Demonstrator SW201 is seen at a bus rally shortly after Lockdown has ended on a dreary day in September 2022   |
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Post by M1104 on Apr 26, 2020 19:22:30 GMT
But an operator can re lease for another contract. Stagecoach have kept their 63 reg E400s. Abellio did somewhat similar with some 61 reg E40Hs they let go, re-acquiring them back mainly for the 407's new contract. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 20:22:48 GMT
N87 cut back to every 20 minutes possible 30 minutes 38 cut back to every 12 minutes 5 cut back to every 10 minutes 18 cut back every 15 minutes also withdrawn between Sudbury and Wembley I think the 5 would really struggle at every 10 minutes even if things are not the same once we start returning to normal. |
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Post by COBO on Apr 26, 2020 20:35:58 GMT
Get rid of all the diesel double deckers.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 26, 2020 20:37:21 GMT
Get rid of all the diesel double deckers. That's just silly. Wouldn't that cause more of a financial burden than causing a reduction? If anything I'd expect diesels to now stick around for a lot longer. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 26, 2020 20:37:55 GMT
I wonder if we could see any of the big groups selling up in London if routes are cut and margins are even tighter. Maybe HCT will pull out of London, sell to Tower Transit who would close HK and reallocate routes to AW & LI. Arriva may then mothball CT and move routes to AE. A precedent here is that, after HCT subsidiary MCT lost a load of routes in Manchester & Oldham, they closed their operation last weekend with remaining routes, mainly in Stockport & Trafford, passing to Rotala Diamond. I doubt Stagecoach would buy any extra London operations as, according to May's Buses magazine page 7, they are not currently looking into any acquistions. |
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