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Post by WH241 on Oct 21, 2024 19:28:59 GMT
Sometimes a permanent change just has to be accepted and adapted to. More people work from home, more people do jobs without a 9 to 5 parameter and therefore can be heading to work at 10am and traveling home at 7pm etc (therefore out of the traditional peak hour rush), less people shop physically, Friday night down the pub is less popular, take aways are delivered to the door and a McDonalds can be. The first thing BT did in 1981 when it became independent of the Post office was to scrap the telegram. In their words the 2.8m telegrams the previous year had cost £50m. Things change and adaption is needed. I agree working hours are more relaxed now but do feel there is more of a shift back to the office with less WFH. I know WFH is popular with some here but to me its just been a bit of a jolly for some since 2020! I see so many comments from people who basically admit how they take the p*ss and do as little work as possible at home. I live close to two stations and have definitely seen a gradual increase in commuters returning to the office over the last couple of years. The DLR in the peaks is very busy even with the shift of passengers to the Elizabeth Line. Its the same at Canning Town bus station with the crowds waiting for buses just as it was before COVID.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 21, 2024 19:35:32 GMT
Sometimes a permanent change just has to be accepted and adapted to. More people work from home, more people do jobs without a 9 to 5 parameter and therefore can be heading to work at 10am and traveling home at 7pm etc (therefore out of the traditional peak hour rush), less people shop physically, Friday night down the pub is less popular, take aways are delivered to the door and a McDonalds can be. The first thing BT did in 1981 when it became independent of the Post office was to scrap the telegram. In their words the 2.8m telegrams the previous year had cost £50m. Things change and adaption is needed. I agree working hours are more relaxed now but do feel there is more of a shift back to the office with less WFH. I know WFH is popular with some here but to me its just been a bit of a jolly for some since 2020! I see so many comments from people who basically admit how they take the p*ss and do as little work as possible at home. I live close to two stations and have definitely seen a gradual increase in commuters returning to the office over the last couple of years. The DLR in the peaks is very busy even with the shift of passengers to the Elizabeth Line. Its the same at Canning Town bus station with the crowds waiting for buses just as it was before COVID.
But the figures say otherwise, no matter what the observations say. Your observations are likely down to changing travel patterns as opposed to a mass return to the office. It's not happened for 4 years now since the pandemic and I can't see anything that will change that. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 21, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
As they quoted; Bus journeys are up 1.3 per cent but are almost 30m below target. Delays to journeys as a result of traffic congestion is the biggest disincentive to bus travel.It is of no surprise and deserve it. They reaped what they have sowed with stupid 20 zones and LTN's and allowing so much roadworks to be conducted with temporary traffic lights. We then have schemes like what they did to route W12 that would create even longer journeys to places like Walthamstow from Wanstead, Snaresbrook etc. Then they wonder why people are deserting buses. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 21, 2024 20:44:00 GMT
If you cut any service regardless if it's a loss or good financially, your still going to end up the case of deterring people away from services as we know it. A Londoner can easily notice longer gaps in services and most of the time doesn't have the patience for such. The cuts made to Central and Inner London's enough to say for itself and yet the TfL planners continue to stick their heads in the pit rather actively looking for strategies to improve the network overall. I personally don’t know why people here seem to get so worked up about slight frequency cuts to buses. Even with worse case scenario 12 to 15 minutes is pretty decent. Most routes are around every 10 mins again this is good compared to other places. I know this is a bus forum so will be biased but it’s in TfL interest to push passengers towards the Underground, DLR, Elizabeth Line and Overground where they get more revenue. The biggest threat to buses is Uber and it’s a shame they were allowed to grow at the rate they have. I am not fan of them but they seem to be seen as an alternative to buses to many Londoners! I can’t see why as they are more expensive unless splitting the cost with other passengers. It’s a shame people have lost the ability to foward plan and allow time for journeys instead would rather book cabs everywhere. When a route like W12 was cut from 20 minutes to 30 minutes a few years ago because CT Plus could not run the route effectively and instead of putting resources, they killed the route. Even further they cut the the now revamped W14 for roads like Snaresbrook Road with a high elderly population to 1 hour and goes virtually no where but dumping you at Whipps Cross roundabout, that says it all! They really have lived up to the name TfL (Taking f#c##g Liberties) |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 21, 2024 20:47:41 GMT
A consultation has just launched to cut the 30 back to Euston and the 205 diverted to Marble Arch with an increase to the 27.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 21, 2024 20:50:24 GMT
I personally don’t know why people here seem to get so worked up about slight frequency cuts to buses. Even with worse case scenario 12 to 15 minutes is pretty decent. Most routes are around every 10 mins again this is good compared to other places. I know this is a bus forum so will be biased but it’s in TfL interest to push passengers towards the Underground, DLR, Elizabeth Line and Overground where they get more revenue. The biggest threat to buses is Uber and it’s a shame they were allowed to grow at the rate they have. I am not fan of them but they seem to be seen as an alternative to buses to many Londoners! I can’t see why as they are more expensive unless splitting the cost with other passengers. It’s a shame people have lost the ability to foward plan and allow time for journeys instead would rather book cabs everywhere. The way tfl operate currently though is as if Buses are a hindrance , back in the late 90s and 00s , Buses were being promoted I remember the ads in the early 00s everywhere , a lot of cross border non tfl routes became tfl routes , Some Buses were very frequent , a bit too frequent in some cases (38 post bendy withdrawal was every minute at one point ) a lot of routes had frequency increases it was a good time , Now they literally make routes inconvenient to make it easier to operate not thinking of the whole reason the route operates to serve the public plus regulating every few minutes and if you read the press or social media you would think Buses have just become lawless aswell in a lot of cases , for a extra couple of quid if there are a few of you a Uber is probably more an attractive option , I believe Uber stopped UberPool when COVID started but even then that worked out cheaper in a lot of cases and worked the same in effect as a Bus , I think ViaVan gave up as it wasn't picking up aswell as UberPool did down to the branding probably I think some cuts are completely justified where there is a lot of excess 14/414 for example but then there are so many places they could be at least trying to get some additional revenue new routes or improving routes , I think they need local planners and management on a borough level or failing that a East , North , South , West , Central level like First group for example would have at each division not someone in a office in Aberdeen planning a route in Basildon , people who actually know the routes and areas and actually listening to consultations etc not just we know best like it or lump it . Well their adverts for promotions is the Khan self style promoted making services better and the superloop etc. Anytime I hear or see that advert, I change the channel straight away, it is as annoying as f**k and reeks Khan BS all over. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 21, 2024 20:52:49 GMT
A consultation has just launched to cut the 30 back to Euston and the 205 diverted to Marble Arch with an increase to the 27. The same thing why people are deserting buses. I remember when the 30 was going to West Brompton not too long ago. It would soon become a pointless wasteman route just like the 73, 15 and 8. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 21, 2024 22:34:53 GMT
In all fairness, suggesting such thing as a good cut financially is also an over simplistic view. Short term, you might get a small boost but long term, your degrading missed opportunities for increased revenue. Austerity has been proven time and again to be nothing more than a gimmick that does more harm than good. OK say you persist with it for a while and things don't improve ... at what point do you say things can't carry on as they are ... When do you stop throwing good money after bad? If it is costing £50k a month and you keep it going for a year, that is £600k of savings needed to be made, 2 years £1.2m. That is £1.2m that could be put to better uses. Who said anything about waiting - invest and if there is no change, then you would have more justification. Just cutting without any improvements at all makes no sense - you have to speculate to accumulate. No one who makes the argument you made has ever answered the question - when do you stop cutting? After the frequency is no good to people, after the route becomes ripe for full withdrawal? |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 21, 2024 23:26:37 GMT
OK say you persist with it for a while and things don't improve ... at what point do you say things can't carry on as they are ... When do you stop throwing good money after bad? If it is costing £50k a month and you keep it going for a year, that is £600k of savings needed to be made, 2 years £1.2m. That is £1.2m that could be put to better uses. Who said anything about waiting - invest and if there is no change, then you would have more justification. Just cutting without any improvements at all makes no sense - you have to speculate to accumulate. No one who makes the argument you made has ever answered the question - when do you stop cutting? After the frequency is no good to people, after the route becomes ripe for full withdrawal? From that we can deduce your ideal scenario is investing good money chasing a bad cause! The frequency will only be no good to people if not enough people use it. Outside of London many routes would have been completely withdrawn without replacement. Don't think people appreciate how good they have it! If people use a route and TfL make a surplus ... it will not be withdrawn or cut. If routes are reduced, I think you should look more at the London public and ask why are you not using a service so it requires a reduction. Use it, it won't be reduced. TfL just manage supply and demand. They can't control demand ... demand reduces, you have to reduce supply, so you can use the money you have more wisely ... words I am not sure TfL are capable of mind you |
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Post by COBO on Oct 22, 2024 17:21:57 GMT
I wonder if there are plans to alter the 12, 14, 24, 31, 88, 148 and 214? It’s seems as though TfL are doing something with the routes that were included in the Central London consultation but doing something else with them.
Like they they couldn’t get rid of the 14 and merge it with the 414 but instead they have just gotten rid of the 414 and hike up the 14.
Also they couldn’t divert the 205 to Parliament Hill Fields so they are diverting it to Marble Arch.
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Post by VMH2537 on Oct 22, 2024 18:01:05 GMT
I wonder if there are plans to alter the 12, 14, 24, 31, 88, 148 and 214? It’s seems as though TfL are doing something with the routes that were included in the Central London consultation but doing something else with them. Like they they couldn’t get rid of the 14 and merge it with the 414 but instead they have just gotten rid of the 414 and hike up the 14. Also they couldn’t divert the 205 to Parliament Hill Fields so they are diverting it to Marble Arch. From what we're seeing with proposals to the 14/414, 45/59/118 and now the 30/205 as well potentially with the 453 being added onto 940A. One can suggest more could very much come. Sadiq Khan has himself said he will introduce Superloop 2 next year, how would he fund it? Well the only choice according to him and TfL is to turn to Inner/Central London once again with an agenda to cut more services for the sake of funding such scheme, despite 80% of the proposals (Superloop 2) are literate fantasy. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 22, 2024 18:20:44 GMT
A consultation has just launched to cut the 30 back to Euston and the 205 diverted to Marble Arch with an increase to the 27. The same thing why people are deserting buses. I remember when the 30 was going to West Brompton not too long ago. It would soon become a pointless wasteman route just like the 73, 15 and 8. The 30 hasn’t gone to West Brompton since the early 90s. |
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Post by WH241 on Oct 22, 2024 19:12:52 GMT
I personally don’t know why people here seem to get so worked up about slight frequency cuts to buses. Even with worse case scenario 12 to 15 minutes is pretty decent. Most routes are around every 10 mins again this is good compared to other places. I know this is a bus forum so will be biased but it’s in TfL interest to push passengers towards the Underground, DLR, Elizabeth Line and Overground where they get more revenue. The biggest threat to buses is Uber and it’s a shame they were allowed to grow at the rate they have. I am not fan of them but they seem to be seen as an alternative to buses to many Londoners! I can’t see why as they are more expensive unless splitting the cost with other passengers. It’s a shame people have lost the ability to foward plan and allow time for journeys instead would rather book cabs everywhere. When a route like W12 was cut from 20 minutes to 30 minutes a few years ago because CT Plus could not run the route effectively and instead of putting resources, they killed the route. Even further they cut the the now revamped W14 for roads like Snaresbrook Road with a high elderly population to 1 hour and goes virtually no where but dumping you at Whipps Cross roundabout, that says it all! They really have lived up to the name TfL (Taking f#c##g Liberties) My initial post was about routes with 10 - 12 min frequencies not routes like the W12 that was every 30 mins or the new W14 which is a joke at every hour. People get worked up here saying passengers won't use buses that run every 12 - 15 mins. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 23, 2024 4:17:54 GMT
I wonder if there are plans to alter the 12, 14, 24, 31, 88, 148 and 214? It’s seems as though TfL are doing something with the routes that were included in the Central London consultation but doing something else with them. Like they they couldn’t get rid of the 14 and merge it with the 414 but instead they have just gotten rid of the 414 and hike up the 14. Also they couldn’t divert the 205 to Parliament Hill Fields so they are diverting it to Marble Arch. This is what I said the other day. This is the 4th corridor to be looked at again (Fulham Road, Brixton Hill, Walworth Road, Marylebone Road). Could the City Road be looked at again with the 214 cut back to King's Cross, or the 476 to Newington Green or Earls Court (74/430). Certainly they are going for a more piecemeal approach and more subtle this time as opposed to going there again with a route like the 14. |
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Post by mark on Oct 23, 2024 11:02:01 GMT
I wonder if there are plans to alter the 12, 14, 24, 31, 88, 148 and 214? It’s seems as though TfL are doing something with the routes that were included in the Central London consultation but doing something else with them. Like they they couldn’t get rid of the 14 and merge it with the 414 but instead they have just gotten rid of the 414 and hike up the 14. Also they couldn’t divert the 205 to Parliament Hill Fields so they are diverting it to Marble Arch. The response to the Central London Bus Review - ehq-production-europe.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/6d06c2e4078dd9f773d953da7d536fd1dc91a2a3/original/1669194388/1d3e2bafe8ff45f098ca19d41c3031ad_central-london-bus-review-2022-decision-summary-and-next-steps.pdf - simply said that changes to routes that didn’t take place weren’t being pursued at that time. It does look as though many of them are now being revisited. The potential reduction in frequency to routes such as the 73 and 390 is also a cause for concern. The 390 serves an area around York Way that has seen significant residential development in recent years. |
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