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Post by WH241 on Oct 28, 2024 8:27:43 GMT
To be honest I will be pretty p*ssed if the government provides funding to bring the deadline forward to 2030. There are far more pressing issues than this. I voted Labour for the first time in many years and really starting to regret my choice. The budget is going to be bleak. I am hoping there will be something about electricity in there. With demand set to surge, and supply set drop with the decommissioning of nuclear power stations (age related) ... what will be done to ensure uninterrupted supplies .... I am worried we might have left it too late as it is! I don’t mind there being something about electric as such it’s more the rush from 2034 to 2030. We have seen the slow roll out of buses and upgrades to garages which would probably get worse if we rush towards 2030. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 28, 2024 8:45:51 GMT
I am hoping there will be something about electricity in there. With demand set to surge, and supply set drop with the decommissioning of nuclear power stations (age related) ... what will be done to ensure uninterrupted supplies .... I am worried we might have left it too late as it is! I don’t mind there being something about electric as such it’s more the rush from 2034 to 2030. We have seen the slow roll out of buses and upgrades to garages which would probably get worse if we rush towards 2030. Not to mention all the short contracts curtailing the London life of perfectly good hybrid/diesel single deckers in order to spread out the new buses towards the end of the decade. Instead of 7 years at a reduced existing bus cost we are only getting 3 years. That's why 2034 was always the most realistic as it meant anything from 2020 could do a full 14 years ie 2023 to 30, 2024 to 31, 2025 to 32, 2026 to 33 and finally if any ares still around (209/378 SEs, K1 most likely) then a handful 2027 to 2034. Evenly spaced, and operators get a good return out of their assets. Win win. |
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Post by TB123 on Oct 28, 2024 8:48:13 GMT
I don’t mind there being something about electric as such it’s more the rush from 2034 to 2030. We have seen the slow roll out of buses and upgrades to garages which would probably get worse if we rush towards 2030. Not to mention all the short contracts curtailing the London life of perfectly good hybrid/diesel single deckers in order to spread out the new buses towards the end of the decade. Instead of 7 years at a reduced existing bus cost we are only getting 3 years. That's why 2034 was always the most realistic as it meant anything from 2020 could do a full 14 years ie 2023 to 30, 2024 to 31, 2025 to 32, 2026 to 33 and finally if any ares still around (209/378 SEs, K1 most likely) then a handful 2027 to 2034. Evenly spaced, and operators get a good return out of their assets. Win win. What's to say many couldn't? I see EV retrofits becoming an option soon and longer diesel/hybrid tenders up til 2030 having their extension clause activated, up to 2031 or 2032. |
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 28, 2024 8:57:40 GMT
I don’t mind there being something about electric as such it’s more the rush from 2034 to 2030. We have seen the slow roll out of buses and upgrades to garages which would probably get worse if we rush towards 2030. Not to mention all the short contracts curtailing the London life of perfectly good hybrid/diesel single deckers in order to spread out the new buses towards the end of the decade. Instead of 7 years at a reduced existing bus cost we are only getting 3 years. That's why 2034 was always the most realistic as it meant anything from 2020 could do a full 14 years ie 2023 to 30, 2024 to 31, 2025 to 32, 2026 to 33 and finally if any ares still around (209/378 SEs, K1 most likely) then a handful 2027 to 2034. Evenly spaced, and operators get a good return out of their assets. Win win. Most of the three year contracts are for routes where the mid-term break clause was used - the three year contract only brings the contract renewal to where it was originally. I get the arguments for 2034, I also see benefits to reducing bus emissions to zero by 2030 particularly in London, where the air pollution in many areas is acute, and a danger to public health. Assets can be used elsewhere - franchising in Liverpool City Region and West and South Yorkshire will swallow up a number of mid-life buses, if Bee Network is anything to go by. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 28, 2024 9:05:40 GMT
I am hoping there will be something about electricity in there. With demand set to surge, and supply set drop with the decommissioning of nuclear power stations (age related) ... what will be done to ensure uninterrupted supplies .... I am worried we might have left it too late as it is! I don’t mind there being something about electric as such it’s more the rush from 2034 to 2030. We have seen the slow roll out of buses and upgrades to garages which would probably get worse if we rush towards 2030. If you use the standard economic principle, the higher demand gets the higher supply will get. Supply is only limited as demand is currently not as high, but if demand goes up then solutions will be found. Once upon a time an electric double decker bus was just a dream (which then got built by Build Your Dreams  ) |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 28, 2024 9:05:52 GMT
Not to mention all the short contracts curtailing the London life of perfectly good hybrid/diesel single deckers in order to spread out the new buses towards the end of the decade. Instead of 7 years at a reduced existing bus cost we are only getting 3 years. That's why 2034 was always the most realistic as it meant anything from 2020 could do a full 14 years ie 2023 to 30, 2024 to 31, 2025 to 32, 2026 to 33 and finally if any ares still around (209/378 SEs, K1 most likely) then a handful 2027 to 2034. Evenly spaced, and operators get a good return out of their assets. Win win. Most of the three year contracts are for routes where the mid-term break clause was used - the three year contract only brings the contract renewal to where it was originally. I get the arguments for 2034, I also see benefits to reducing bus emissions to zero by 2030 particularly in London, where the air pollution in many areas is acute, and a danger to public health. Assets can be used elsewhere - franchising in Liverpool City Region and West and South Yorkshire will swallow up a number of mid-life buses, if Bee Network is anything to go by. Is air quality that bad in London, or a political scare tactic? I have signed up for daily readings and alerts from my nearest monitoring station and most days air quality measurement is 1-3, some days 0, somes days 4. Anything under 25 is deemed good air quality. I have only ever had a moderate warning once in about 5 years. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 28, 2024 9:53:06 GMT
I understand we will find out on Wednesday but what is the likelihood of TFL securing funding for major projects such as the Bakerloo Line extension & additional funding for a 2030 EV bus fleet? To be honest I will be pretty p*ssed if the government provides funding to bring the deadline forward to 2030. There are far more pressing issues than this. I voted Labour for the first time in many years and really starting to regret my choice. The budget is going to be bleak. I liked Keir, but too many other idiots in the party put me off voting for them. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 28, 2024 10:10:36 GMT
Not to mention all the short contracts curtailing the London life of perfectly good hybrid/diesel single deckers in order to spread out the new buses towards the end of the decade. Instead of 7 years at a reduced existing bus cost we are only getting 3 years. That's why 2034 was always the most realistic as it meant anything from 2020 could do a full 14 years ie 2023 to 30, 2024 to 31, 2025 to 32, 2026 to 33 and finally if any ares still around (209/378 SEs, K1 most likely) then a handful 2027 to 2034. Evenly spaced, and operators get a good return out of their assets. Win win. Most of the three year contracts are for routes where the mid-term break clause was used - the three year contract only brings the contract renewal to where it was originally. I get the arguments for 2034, I also see benefits to reducing bus emissions to zero by 2030 particularly in London, where the air pollution in many areas is acute, and a danger to public health. Assets can be used elsewhere - franchising in Liverpool City Region and West and South Yorkshire will swallow up a number of mid-life buses, if Bee Network is anything to go by. No alot of them aren't. 260, 302, 37, 419, 293, 406, 418, 427, 222, 6, 139, 274, 460, 331, H13 are a small amount using buses arguably compliant for 7 years. |
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Post by PGAT on Oct 28, 2024 10:11:55 GMT
Most of the three year contracts are for routes where the mid-term break clause was used - the three year contract only brings the contract renewal to where it was originally. I get the arguments for 2034, I also see benefits to reducing bus emissions to zero by 2030 particularly in London, where the air pollution in many areas is acute, and a danger to public health. Assets can be used elsewhere - franchising in Liverpool City Region and West and South Yorkshire will swallow up a number of mid-life buses, if Bee Network is anything to go by. Is air quality that bad in London, or a political scare tactic? I have signed up for daily readings and alerts from my nearest monitoring station and most days air quality measurement is 1-3, some days 0, somes days 4. Anything under 25 is deemed good air quality. I have only ever had a moderate warning once in about 5 years. I don’t have the answer to that but I doubt all the money, effort and resources sunk into electrifying the whole fleet would have been spent if it wasn’t at least somewhat problematic |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 28, 2024 12:42:22 GMT
Most of the three year contracts are for routes where the mid-term break clause was used - the three year contract only brings the contract renewal to where it was originally. I get the arguments for 2034, I also see benefits to reducing bus emissions to zero by 2030 particularly in London, where the air pollution in many areas is acute, and a danger to public health. Assets can be used elsewhere - franchising in Liverpool City Region and West and South Yorkshire will swallow up a number of mid-life buses, if Bee Network is anything to go by. Is air quality that bad in London, or a political scare tactic? I have signed up for daily readings and alerts from my nearest monitoring station and most days air quality measurement is 1-3, some days 0, somes days 4. Anything under 25 is deemed good air quality. I have only ever had a moderate warning once in about 5 years. Where is your nearest monitoring station located? |
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Post by yunus on Oct 29, 2024 16:20:11 GMT
Just a thought, if TFL are successful tomm for additional funding to bring the EV fleet target to 2030 would they change the way tenders are awarded? To be precise, I mean would all Diesel / Hybrid short awards be stopped immediately?
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Post by PGAT on Oct 29, 2024 16:26:11 GMT
Just a thought, if TFL are successful tomm for additional funding to bring the EV fleet target to 2030 would they change the way tenders are awarded? To be precise, I mean would all Diesel / Hybrid short awards be stopped immediately? Probably not. There's still a couple years of buffer where short contracts can be made without pushing past the 2030 deadline |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 29, 2024 19:41:04 GMT
Just a thought, if TFL are successful tomm for additional funding to bring the EV fleet target to 2030 would they change the way tenders are awarded? To be precise, I mean would all Diesel / Hybrid short awards be stopped immediately? Probably not. There's still a couple years of buffer where short contracts can be made without pushing past the 2030 deadline I would certainly expect a fair few of the 2026 tenders to be for 3 years as so far 2029 isn't massively busy for needing new buses as alot of 2023 and 2024 tenders run till 2030 or 2027. The 54, 75, 208, 372 spring to mind and even some of the Stagecoach ones using 64 reg could squeeze 3 more years on the 96, 122, 472. |
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Post by yunus on Oct 29, 2024 20:01:38 GMT
Probably not. There's still a couple years of buffer where short contracts can be made without pushing past the 2030 deadline I would certainly expect a fair few of the 2026 tenders to be for 3 years as so far 2029 isn't massively busy for needing new buses as alot of 2023 and 2024 tenders run till 2030 or 2027. The 54, 75, 208, 372 spring to mind and even some of the Stagecoach ones using 64 reg could squeeze 3 more years on the 96, 122, 472. Better to spread out rather than squeeze these short 3 year contracts imo. TFL should not leave a mass order requirement order of EVs to the last minute around 2029 or so. Bear in mind buses for other cities still need to be built. |
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Post by yunus on Oct 30, 2024 16:39:16 GMT
Any updates from the budget today in regards to TFL funding for new projects?
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