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Post by vjaska on Mar 12, 2021 17:54:03 GMT
Commercial services need a healthy, established passenger flow for it to be profitable. TfL services be they subsidised or not, generate extra journeys by having a fixed price which isn't incremental, and that saving can then be disposable income for the commuter. I know people in Dartford who [when it was allowed] like to go on nights out to Gravesend for the convenience in locality, but prefer to go out into central London (via 96 and DLR at Woolwich) as they don't have to pay for expensive taxis. One of them even visited Westfield Stratford City more than me, and I live a few miles away from Westfield but don't go as much! If you don't make buses attractive to passengers then they won't use it. In out of boundary towns where its residents are typically more car reliant; you make the bus reliable, regular if possible and at a reasonable price to tempt people to use services at a more enhanced rate. No one's going to pay 4 or 5 quid to go a mile when the service is hourly and buses run during limited times of the day. Is that really a proper justification. So many seem to not be facing up to the fact that outside London deregulation rules supreme. TfL maybe unfairly stifling competition in border areas with subsidised services, which guess what is illegal. Commercial services will never establish themselves when the competition is subsidised and making a loss. Give them a chance if there is an established passenger flow. If there are not established traffic f,own, why are TfL even considering operating them? It isn't London's fault as to the issue outside of London - dig up Thatcher and round up her government from the 80's and speak to them. It makes no sense castigating an area that had no say in what goes on elsewhere. It is like those in the north who wan't all funding cut off for London over anything as we all live in golden house with money trees out in the back because they don't get as good as a deal - it isn't Londoners fault so don't punish us, go seek out those who are actually accountable. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 12, 2021 17:56:43 GMT
If a route is profitable there is not a problem unless it sniffles competition, are you stopping another operator making a profit then? But, given Londons low fares, and a large % of non paying passengers, I would imagine only a very small percentage of the network is profitable, given the huge deficit TfL bus services run up. So what way do you suggest to curb this deficit given that cutting services is only going to reduce income from fares. The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Mar 12, 2021 18:03:15 GMT
So what way do you suggest to curb this deficit given that cutting services is only going to reduce income from fares. The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. Absolutely agree on this. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 18:07:57 GMT
So what way do you suggest to curb this deficit given that cutting services is only going to reduce income from fares. The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. I agree, however it’s hard to justify a multimillion pound subsidy to transport in London without anything similar in other cities across the UK. Sadly I don’t this the subsidy will ever come back, not with falling passenger numbers and London residents leaving in their thousands. |
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 12, 2021 18:19:15 GMT
So what way do you suggest to curb this deficit given that cutting services is only going to reduce income from fares. The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. How exactly would you sell that to the rest of the country or the nurses? We can only give you a 1% pay rise as Londoners want dirt cheap loss making buses? That will go down well. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 12, 2021 18:29:57 GMT
Probably wouldn't help the north/south divide too much.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 12, 2021 18:41:03 GMT
The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. How exactly would you sell that to the rest of the country or the nurses? We can only give you a 1% pay rise as Londoners want dirt cheap loss making buses? That will go down well. The original posters question was particularly aimed at London - at no point did I say anything about it not happening anywhere else because it would be wrong of me to discuss areas outside of London that I do not have knowledge of so obviously I'm going to stick to what I know. As for the rest of the reply, nurses pay has nothing to do with it so why merge something that is completely irrelevant. Oh and nurses are actually receiving a pay cut not a rise despite what's reported. |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 12, 2021 18:43:12 GMT
The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. I agree, however it’s hard to justify a multimillion pound subsidy to transport in London without anything similar in other cities across the UK. Sadly I don’t this the subsidy will ever come back, not with falling passenger numbers and London residents leaving in their thousands. I agree although I kept it London centric because I couldn't discuss what places and where other schemes should be rolled out, thought I'd leave that to more knowledgeable people  |
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 12, 2021 20:05:02 GMT
The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. How exactly would you sell that to the rest of the country or the nurses? We can only give you a 1% pay rise as Londoners want dirt cheap loss making buses? That will go down well. I haven’t forgotten what you said about the non-TfL 715 and can only conclude you aren’t really supportive of any cross border services - TfL, commercial or otherwise. So forgive me if I basically ignore all your arguments about this. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Mar 12, 2021 20:26:13 GMT
The simple answer is to reinstate the subsidy that was stupidly cut by Boris & the Tory government of the time. Subsidised transport seems to be a dirty word to some but it helped the London network grow out of the mess of the 80's & 90's. How exactly would you sell that to the rest of the country or the nurses? We can only give you a 1% pay rise as Londoners want dirt cheap loss making buses? That will go down well. You're saying that as if the government can't afford the pay rise because of London Buses being subsidised, which isn't true. How about we start questioning the dodgy multi-million pound contracts awarded to businesses setup in Chinese hotel rooms for unusable face masks and other things. Maybe that's making the bigger dent in the budget? |
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 12, 2021 20:53:25 GMT
How exactly would you sell that to the rest of the country or the nurses? We can only give you a 1% pay rise as Londoners want dirt cheap loss making buses? That will go down well. You're saying that as if the government can't afford the pay rise because of London Buses being subsidised, which isn't true. How about we start questioning the dodgy multi-million pound contracts awarded to businesses setup in Chinese hotel rooms for unusable face masks and other things. Maybe that's making the bigger dent in the budget? Why does it seem everyone is in denial. This country's and many others has been totally screwed by this pandemic. The increased interest payments required on the increased national debt will cripple this country for a couple of decades, with the basket case Health department taking a ever increasing % of the UK budget, having just recently approved a drug costing £1.79m a dose! Will get an indication on Tuesday just how big a hatchet job will be done on our military. Heavan forbid we ever need them, we can't defend ourselves anymore ... Will become surrender monkeys like one of our near neighbours.. |
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Post by ianhardy on Mar 12, 2021 21:14:53 GMT
As the person who first suggested that TfL cuts bus services that cross the Greater London boundary. The reason I suggested this is that the residents of the London Boroughs have to pay a precept to TfL as part of their Council Tax. In return TfL fares are cheap compared to those outside of London. Apart from Surrey residents, none of the other residents pay anything to fund the London subsidised fares that they charged. When TfL is broke why should Londoners be funding cheap fares outside of Greater London, when TfL has to reduce bus services in London?
If the routes that cross the GL boundary are so popular then why don't the likes of Ensignbus run services from Thurrock into Greater London commercially? The reason is that they could not run a service commericially when only charging £1.50 flat fares without any local authority support.
Therefore here is another idea, the routes are unchanged but the fares on TfL bus routes that cross the GL Boundary are changed:
Within Greater London fares would be at the flat rate (£1.50 or whatever the flat rate would be) but as soon as the route crossed the GL boundary then commercial fares would be charged.
Then Londoners would only be funding cheap fares within London but the services would continue to cross the boundary enabling current journeys to be possible.
Light blue touch paper and withdraw:-)
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Post by galwhv69 on Mar 12, 2021 22:07:38 GMT
You're saying that as if the government can't afford the pay rise because of London Buses being subsidised, which isn't true. How about we start questioning the dodgy multi-million pound contracts awarded to businesses setup in Chinese hotel rooms for unusable face masks and other things. Maybe that's making the bigger dent in the budget? Why does it seem everyone is in denial. This country's and many others has been totally screwed by this pandemic. The increased interest payments required on the increased national debt will cripple this country for a couple of decades, with the basket case Health department taking a ever increasing % of the UK budget, having just recently approved a drug costing £1.79m a dose! Will get an indication on Tuesday just how big a hatchet job will be done on our military. Heavan forbid we ever need them, we can't defend ourselves anymore ... Will become surrender monkeys like one of our near neighbours.. What are you talking about?  When did I mention the military & national debt??? |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 12, 2021 22:09:54 GMT
As the person who first suggested that TfL cuts bus services that cross the Greater London boundary. The reason I suggested this is that the residents of the London Boroughs have to pay a precept to TfL as part of their Council Tax. In return TfL fares are cheap compared to those outside of London. Apart from Surrey residents, none of the other residents pay anything to fund the London subsidised fares that they charged. When TfL is broke why should Londoners be funding cheap fares outside of Greater London, when TfL has to reduce bus services in London? If the routes that cross the GL boundary are so popular then why don't the likes of Ensignbus run services from Thurrock into Greater London commercially? The reason is that they could not run a service commericially when only charging £1.50 flat fares without any local authority support. Therefore here is another idea, the routes are unchanged but the fares on TfL bus routes that cross the GL Boundary are changed: Within Greater London fares would be at the flat rate (£1.50 or whatever the flat rate would be) but as soon as the route crossed the GL boundary then commercial fares would be charged. Then Londoners would only be funding cheap fares within London but the services would continue to cross the boundary enabling current journeys to be possible. Light blue touch paper and withdraw:-) That wouldn't be feasible because anyone from outside London would still pay £1.50 on their return journey to the provinces and Londoners wanting to re-enter London would be charged higher than £1.50. |
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 12, 2021 22:17:52 GMT
Why does it seem everyone is in denial. This country's and many others has been totally screwed by this pandemic. The increased interest payments required on the increased national debt will cripple this country for a couple of decades, with the basket case Health department taking a ever increasing % of the UK budget, having just recently approved a drug costing £1.79m a dose! Will get an indication on Tuesday just how big a hatchet job will be done on our military. Heavan forbid we ever need them, we can't defend ourselves anymore ... Will become surrender monkeys like one of our near neighbours.. What are you talking about? When did I mention the military & national debt??? That response just sums it up! |
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When did I mention the military & national debt???