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Post by danorak on Apr 4, 2021 20:36:23 GMT
Latest rumour (from a more credible source this time) is that the 388 will be extended to Old Kent Road Tescos. Would there be enough room at OKR Tesco for the 388 with the 168 and 415 also terminating there, or would something have to move out? Interesting. I've speculated that the 3 being rerouted to Elephant (as per the rumour) might herald the loss of the 415 with its space at OKR Tescos being used for something else. This would fit with that theory. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 4, 2021 20:53:03 GMT
That would leave Brixton to Tulse Hill to maybe the 432 being boosted to every 8 mins along with the 2.
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 4, 2021 21:01:21 GMT
Latest rumour (from a more credible source this time) is that the 388 will be extended to Old Kent Road Tescos. The poor 388 just can't get settled into its new home. The paint can barely dry on the walls before it's moving house again. Because the 388 has been adjusted so many times in its 18 years of existence, it makes more sense to modify the less established route if the opportunity is there, so that the negative impact is as low as it can be (it would be easier for passengers to adapt to the change). The 388 is also only 6 miles in length which makes it ideal for an extension. I Presume it would run down Borough High Street, Great Dover Street and Old Kent Road, allowing for the 21 to be adjusted accordingly. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 4, 2021 21:06:55 GMT
You could be right. I'm guessing tfl are feeling that the 141 is sufficient on the rest though if the 43 cutback is true then that's just the 141 between Moorgate and LB if the 133 re routes awell. If the 12 is being extended to Marylebone I wonder whether TFL are aiming to reroute the 21 to Oxford Circus with the 453 discontinued. Wouldn't actully be a bad thing to think to provide a more direct service from Elephant to Lewisham and restore a proper west end link missing since the 1, 36/436 changes. Lewisham would still be linked to LB/City by the 47. Only concerns would be loss of New Cross to London Bridge/City link and Deptford would only have the 53 which now only goes as far as County Hall. Or maybe it would be restored to Whitehall hence trying to move the 3 out. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 21:16:08 GMT
If the 12 is being extended to Marylebone I wonder whether TFL are aiming to reroute the 21 to Oxford Circus with the 453 discontinued. Wouldn't actully be a bad thing to think to provide a more direct service from Elephant to Lewisham and restore a proper west end link missing since the 1, 36/436 changes. Lewisham would still be linked to LB/City by the 47. Only concerns would be loss of New Cross to London Bridge/City link and Deptford would only have the 53 which now only goes as far as County Hall. Or maybe it would be restored to Whitehall hence trying to move the 3 out. That was the link I thought was be missed the most, but when you consider the alternative frequent trains to London Bridge it’s not so bad. I also think the 148 has been extended pending the review . |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 4, 2021 21:18:04 GMT
The poor 388 just can't get settled into its new home. The paint can barely dry on the walls before it's moving house again. Because the 388 has been adjusted so many times in its 18 years of existence, it makes more sense to modify the less established route if the opportunity is there, so that the negative impact is as low as it can be (it would be easier for passengers to adapt to the change). The 388 is also only 6 miles in length which makes it ideal for an extension. I Presume it would run down Borough High Street, Great Dover Street and Old Kent Road, allowing for the 21 to be adjusted accordingly. The mileage distance means nothing when it comes to extensions or length. The trip cycle time is what matters. At 150 minutes on the 388, it's already approaching the upper end of what can be operated feasibly. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 4, 2021 21:25:14 GMT
The poor 388 just can't get settled into its new home. The paint can barely dry on the walls before it's moving house again. Because the 388 has been adjusted so many times in its 18 years of existence, it makes more sense to modify the less established route if the opportunity is there, so that the negative impact is as low as it can be (it would be easier for passengers to adapt to the change). The 388 is also only 6 miles in length which makes it ideal for an extension. I Presume it would run down Borough High Street, Great Dover Street and Old Kent Road, allowing for the 21 to be adjusted accordingly. The disadvantage with continually messing around with a sole route is you end up eradicating part or most of it's user base - it would be nice if it can finally can settle into a permanent role rather than be constantly used as a pawn in TfL's merry go around of poor changes. The 388 is currently every 12 whilst the 21 is every 6-7 minutes so unless the direct Borough link via Great Dover Street isn't greatly used, then that's a drastic drop because I can't see justification of both the 21 & 388 operating. |
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 4, 2021 21:28:44 GMT
Because the 388 has been adjusted so many times in its 18 years of existence, it makes more sense to modify the less established route if the opportunity is there, so that the negative impact is as low as it can be (it would be easier for passengers to adapt to the change). The 388 is also only 6 miles in length which makes it ideal for an extension. I Presume it would run down Borough High Street, Great Dover Street and Old Kent Road, allowing for the 21 to be adjusted accordingly. The mileage distance means nothing when it comes to extensions or length. The trip cycle time is what matters. At 150 minutes on the 388, it's already approaching the upper end of what can be operated feasibly. Wouldn't the trip cycle time be more or less the same as it was when the 388 went to Elephant & Castle? |
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Post by TB123 on Apr 4, 2021 21:33:40 GMT
The mileage distance means nothing when it comes to extensions or length. The trip cycle time is what matters. At 150 minutes on the 388, it's already approaching the upper end of what can be operated feasibly. Wouldn't the trip cycle time be more or less the same as it was when the 388 went to Elephant & Castle? Probably similar - but it would very much be pushing the limits I'd say. |
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 4, 2021 21:36:06 GMT
Because the 388 has been adjusted so many times in its 18 years of existence, it makes more sense to modify the less established route if the opportunity is there, so that the negative impact is as low as it can be (it would be easier for passengers to adapt to the change). The 388 is also only 6 miles in length which makes it ideal for an extension. I Presume it would run down Borough High Street, Great Dover Street and Old Kent Road, allowing for the 21 to be adjusted accordingly. The disadvantage with continually messing around with a sole route is you end up eradicating part or most of it's user base - it would be nice if it can finally can settle into a permanent role rather than be constantly used as a pawn in TfL's merry go around of poor changes. The 388 is currently every 12 whilst the 21 is every 6-7 minutes so unless the direct Borough link via Great Dover Street isn't greatly used, then that's a drastic drop because I can't see justification of both the 21 & 388 operating. Yes that's true, although in the 388's case, the patronage figures suggest otherwise. It would only be an extension on top of the existing route. In regards to your second point, I also can't see justification so I guess if the rumours are true, then the 21 would be taken out of that area and/or reduced in frequency, and the 388's frequency could be slightly increased if needed. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 4, 2021 21:38:56 GMT
Wouldn't actully be a bad thing to think to provide a more direct service from Elephant to Lewisham and restore a proper west end link missing since the 1, 36/436 changes. Lewisham would still be linked to LB/City by the 47. Only concerns would be loss of New Cross to London Bridge/City link and Deptford would only have the 53 which now only goes as far as County Hall. Or maybe it would be restored to Whitehall hence trying to move the 3 out. That was the link I thought was be missed the most, but when you consider the alternative frequent trains to London Bridge it’s not so bad. I also think the 148 has been extended pending the review . There hasn't actually been anything said about the 148 as normally when that happens its gets announced as part of a tender programme update along the lines of such and such a route has been extended by 1 year or such and such a route has been added to tranche whatever to allow for a review as what happened with the 139 (ultimately terminated) or the S4 (tendered in its current form). |
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Post by danorak on Apr 4, 2021 21:46:46 GMT
The disadvantage with continually messing around with a sole route is you end up eradicating part or most of it's user base - it would be nice if it can finally can settle into a permanent role rather than be constantly used as a pawn in TfL's merry go around of poor changes. The 388 is currently every 12 whilst the 21 is every 6-7 minutes so unless the direct Borough link via Great Dover Street isn't greatly used, then that's a drastic drop because I can't see justification of both the 21 & 388 operating. Yes that's true, although in the 388's case, the patronage figures suggest otherwise. It would only be an extension on top of the existing route. In regards to your second point, I also can't see justification so I guess if the rumours are true, then the 21 would be taken out of that area and/or reduced in frequency, and the 388's frequency could be slightly increased if needed. One of those original tweets did mention the 26 was in the firing line too, so I wonder if the 388 might be increased at the 26's expense. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 4, 2021 22:02:17 GMT
Yes that's true, although in the 388's case, the patronage figures suggest otherwise. It would only be an extension on top of the existing route. In regards to your second point, I also can't see justification so I guess if the rumours are true, then the 21 would be taken out of that area and/or reduced in frequency, and the 388's frequency could be slightly increased if needed. One of those original tweets did mention the 26 was in the firing line too, so I wonder if the 388 might be increased at the 26's expense. I said on the thread about the closure of Threadneedle Street consultation that where the routes (8, 11, 26) are diverted away from the street that they would add more capacity to other corridors in the area. The 133 would add another LB to L'Pool St via Monument route and the 8, 11, 26 would all run along Cornhill alongside the 25. So when considering what has been said about the 43 and 388 and potentially the 26 I think any City route could be up for change now. 26 left to just the 11 to Aldwych? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 22:04:52 GMT
That was the link I thought was be missed the most, but when you consider the alternative frequent trains to London Bridge it’s not so bad. I also think the 148 has been extended pending the review . There hasn't actually been anything said about the 148 as normally when that happens its gets announced as part of a tender programme update along the lines of such and such a route has been extended by 1 year or such and such a route has been added to tranche whatever to allow for a review as what happened with the 139 (ultimately terminated) or the S4 (tendered in its current form). The 9 had a delay in announcing and then it turned out it was extended. There are precedents. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 4, 2021 22:07:05 GMT
I belive the rule is generally a route with a freq of 12 mins or more needs a 2 bus stand Hence the 187 only requiring 1? The 187 shares both termini with another route, so there is probably more flexibility between the stand space used for the 228/268. |
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