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Post by ronnie on Apr 12, 2021 11:20:26 GMT
I know that, it was an exaggeration; from Canning Town all buses end up in East Ham except the 69, 241 and the 323. Which says a lot Nope you have the 276 and 309 as well. Don’t forget that the 69, 257 both get to Walthamstow. You also have the 158 / 97 both to Chingford (and 97 to Walthamstow as well). The 241 takes the scenic route from Canning Town to Stratford The 308/425 both go to Clapton via Stratford and homerton hospital. The 276 also goes to both Stratford and homerton hospital The 309/323 probably are the ones having unique links |
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Post by VMH2537 on Apr 12, 2021 11:43:33 GMT
You having a laugh, what about the 102, that goes west from Edmonton Green. The 34 is a stone throw away from Edmonton Green, down the road at the Angel. I believe West of Enfield means Palmers Green and Southgate. Palmers Green is more South Enfield to me then West. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2021 11:49:53 GMT
I'd suggest Lambeth has one of the best networks around due to the superb access to Central London as well the brilliant connections when travelling north to south though even then, it still isn't perfect and the lack of east to west links outside either starting or crossing through the borough into other boroughs has always severely been lacking. A main direct link between Clapham & West Norwood (no the 322 isn't such a thing) has always been odd given they are the next biggest places after Brixton & Streatham I’ve lived in Ealing, Brent, Lambeth and Greenwich boroughs - of those 4, I second your shout for Lambeth. Everywhere seemed to easy to reach by bus....especially as I lived near the boundary with Southwark - Waterloo and Elephant & Castle were my main interchanges. Greenwich would be hugely improved if we had a permanent river crossing to the east of the borough. Barking, Dagenham and Ilford are so close, yet so far. It is pretty much as you describe unless your trying to go east to west which is a wider issue for South London as a whole TBF - it helps that Lambeth is very dependent on the bus being one of the areas with one of the lowest rates of car ownership in the UK. Brixton on its own probably has a better network than some boroughs due to it being known to some as the gateway to South & South East London as well as sited on one of the most heavily used bus corridors on the A23. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 12, 2021 12:24:49 GMT
You having a laugh, what about the 102, that goes west from Edmonton Green. The 34 is a stone throw away from Edmonton Green, down the road at the Angel. The 34 and the 102 only serve the edge of the borough as it only serves the North Circular Road and Arnos Grove for 34 not West Enfield. The centre of the borough is places like Enfield Town, Southgate or Edmonton Green. Silver Street where the 34 goes is not really that accessible to Edmonton Green and its in a different area, Edmonton Green is a popular destination itself connecting to the wider network and is soon to be even busier once the new shopping centre is built in a couple years time aswell if you look at a map view, Edmonton green and Enfield Town has no direct links to Walthamstow Central despite it being a close distance. The 102 does not connect to West Enfield such as Southgate or other destinations, it routes onto the North Circular Road before turning to Muswell Hill. If you look on a map view, connections to Lower Edmonton is generally poor with no direct links to West Enfield such as Southgate and other areas poorly connected to East Enfield such as Grange and Winchmore Hill. I have been been having a strong idea of diverting 125 to Edmonton Green as it will enable a direct link to Lower Edmonton from West Enfield and connect Grange and Winchmore Hill to the East. The 125 is already unreliable east of Southgate as to me it is slightly overserved as the frequency does not match the demand. A Edmonton extension is a opportunity to improve the 125 reliability with many trips generated from it such as many will divert away from the limited capacity and long W6 and the improved links to Grange and Winchmore Hill. Even TFL did recognize this : View Attachment![]() ![]() ![]() Well your wording initially was not correct, hence why I said this. |
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Post by dlroper on Apr 12, 2021 12:31:21 GMT
I work at Beckton DLR Depot which is in the back of nowhere in Newham .......... walk another 100 yards across the road and you're in the muddy Thames - surrounded by wasteland and redundant cleared industrial land - its's not a pleasant place ........... and yet there is a half-hourly N bus service to the Centre of London - every night - THAT I call a great service and what public transport should be about.
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Post by aaron1 on Apr 12, 2021 12:50:37 GMT
My town Cricklewood is have only one route in to Central London that is the 16 like it use to have a to or more routes in the centre
Plus there are only 3 night bus 189 N16 N266 I would love to see more night routes to my place
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 12:57:56 GMT
My town Cricklewood is have only one route in to Central London that is the 16 like it use to have a to or more routes in the centre Plus there are only 3 night bus 189 N16 N266 I would love to see more night routes to my place 189 and 332 also serve the centre as well as the 16 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 13:21:34 GMT
I work at Beckton DLR Depot which is in the back of nowhere in Newham .......... walk another 100 yards across the road and you're in the muddy Thames - surrounded by wasteland and redundant cleared industrial land - its's not a pleasant place ........... and yet there is a half-hourly N bus service to the Centre of London - every night - THAT I call a great service and what public transport should be about. But surely that is to support the night workers in the area both at the DLR depot and other surrounding industries to reduce the amount of car usage in the area? |
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Post by Trafalgax on Apr 12, 2021 13:41:22 GMT
I'd say Hackney is decent as you have 30, 38, 242, 253 etc which goes central London, 277 and D6 to the Docklands as well as connections to Waltham Forest via 55, 56 and W15.
The only thing lacking is a south link which 388 used to cover until it got nerfed, and then you have routes like 236 and 394 which don't really provide that much new links to Hackney, there only good for people who live in estate with 393 being an except since it has good NW links from Hackney.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2021 14:40:11 GMT
I'd say Bromley is in the middle between best and worst. E.g. The Orpington routes don't really leave the Bromley borough apart from the R11, (which goes to Queen Mary's which is in Bromley, and I'm not sure if the R5/10 do leave as Knockholt is in Kent, I believe). You have links to Eltham, Addington, Bexleyheath, Biggin Hill, Lewisham, Orpington, Crystal Palace etc but one link that is really lacking is a Woolwich to Bromley link. I'd suggest extending the 126 from Eltham High Street down to Woolwich via Westmount Road and Rochester Way and via 122 LOR towards Woolwich, which is very useful so I don't have to get a 161 and change at Eltham for a 162 or 314. In reply to the R routes, the R5/R10 runs into Kent and the R routes aren’t designed to be very long routes crossing multiple boroughs but designed to centre on Orpington bringing people in from the surrounding residential areas and village type places. Bromley’s problem is it is a large borough in terms of size stretching from Palace in the west & parts of Sydenham and Lower Sydenham in the north to the Kent & Surrey borders |
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 12, 2021 15:46:33 GMT
Bexley would have to be one of the worst - Generally, a daytime bus journey from the borough to anywhere west of New Cross will require more than one bus. Unless you count the 177 which barely serves Bexley, you can only get as far west on one bus as New Cross Gate on the 321, in zone 2. (89, 132, 180, 286, 422 and 486 reach zone 2/3). I think there is a missed opportunity because a direct bus link between Bexleyheath/Welling and Central London via the A2 and A207 could work quite well, perhaps something similar to the N89, but via OKR.
Welling isn't well linked with north of the borough, nor is Crayford other than the 428 to Erith. The only north-south bus routes are the 229 and B12. The 229 is quite indirect, and more or less acts as two separate routes (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath and Bexleyheath - Sidcup).
Whilst there is the 51, 160, 233, B14 and R11 at Sidcup crossing into Bromley, only the 51 and B14 serve a larger part of Bexley. The B14 is infrequent so in many cases, crossing into Bromley would require at least one change. On the bright side, buses crossing into Greenwich are plentiful.
In terms of night buses, the 472 and N1 barely serve Bexley, which leaves only the 321, N21 and N89 (plus 132 and 486 on weekends). So travelling around the borough at night by bus is pretty much impossible without heading into Greenwich.
None of this is helped by the fact that there is no Tube, DLR or Overground.
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Post by twobellstogo on Apr 12, 2021 16:02:59 GMT
Bexley would have to be one of the worst - Generally, a daytime bus journey from the borough to anywhere west of New Cross will require more than one bus. Unless you count the 177 which barely serves Bexley, you can only get as far west on one bus as New Cross Gate on the 321, in zone 2. (89, 132, 180, 286, 422 and 486 reach zone 2/3). I think there is a missed opportunity because a direct bus link between Bexleyheath/Welling and Central London via the A2 and A207 could work quite well, perhaps something similar to the N89, but via OKR. Welling isn't well linked with north of the borough, nor is Crayford other than the 428 to Erith. The only north-south bus routes are the 229 and B12. The 229 is quite indirect, and more or less acts as two separate routes (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath and Bexleyheath - Sidcup). Whilst there is the 51, 160, 233, B14 and R11 at Sidcup crossing into Bromley, only the 51 and B14 serve a larger part of Bexley. The B14 is infrequent so in many cases, crossing into Bromley would require at least one change. On the bright side, buses crossing into Greenwich are plentiful. In terms of night buses, the 472 and N1 barely serve Bexley, which leaves only the 321, N21 and N89 (plus 132 and 486 on weekends). So travelling around the borough at night by bus is pretty much impossible without heading into Greenwich. None of this is helped by the fact that there is no Tube, DLR or Overground. I don’t think Bexley is that bad. There’s a bus for most purposes going in most directions from most places. Would agree that Welling - Abbey Wood/Thamesmead and Crayford northwards is weak, and night services in the north of the borough are very poor indeed. The 229 is how it is for the links it provides : it’s indirect but usually not particularly slow. Would argue that it’s probably two overlapping services in one rather than what you say : Thamesmead - Bexleyheath and Belvedere/ Erith - Sidcup. Regular viewers of the twobellstogo channel will also know that I work in North Surrey, and as such I also have a reasonable knowledge of Kingston’s network - Kingston is an odd shape so perhaps can’t be analysed in the same way as most boroughs. Kingston has in my view a decent service in most directions, including out to Surrey. I’m struggling to think of an obvious gap. As for Elmbridge, where do I start with the deficiencies there?!?! 😂 |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Apr 12, 2021 16:21:22 GMT
Greenwich suffers from a lack of north-south links within the borough - only the 161 between Woolwich and Eltham, which faffs around at Queen Elizabeth Hospital; and the 286 between Greenwich town centre and Eltham, which inexplicably suffered a Sunday frequency cut recently. There's also the 132 between Eltham and North Greenwich, although that skips a great chunk of potential custom by using the A102. Despite Woolwich being the borough's biggest town centre, there are no direct links from much of the south of the borough. As mentioned above, that odd north-south issue also manifests itself in the lack of links between Thamesmead/Abbey Wood and Welling/Eltham.
Lewisham's not bad but has a different version of the same problem - a lack of east-west links; nothing from Blackheath Village to Brockley or New Cross; nothing from Lee to Forest Hill. That latter one Is part of a south London-wide problem.
Found the Newham/Tower Hamlets comments above interesting - it's odd that the Isle of Dogs and Royal Docks have remained in their own silos with no links, despite the Lower Lea Crossing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 16:56:54 GMT
I'd say Bromley is in the middle between best and worst. E.g. The Orpington routes don't really leave the Bromley borough apart from the R11, (which goes to Queen Mary's which is in Bromley, and I'm not sure if the R5/10 do leave as Knockholt is in Kent, I believe). You have links to Eltham, Addington, Bexleyheath, Biggin Hill, Lewisham, Orpington, Crystal Palace etc but one link that is really lacking is a Woolwich to Bromley link. I'd suggest extending the 126 from Eltham High Street down to Woolwich via Westmount Road and Rochester Way and via 122 LOR towards Woolwich, which is very useful so I don't have to get a 161 and change at Eltham for a 162 or 314. Oh Queen Mary’s is in Bexley Borough (just). Yeah I’ve always thought a Bromley to Woolwich should be created and also thought of extending the 126, as it gives Grove Park the link as well. I also think Bromley should have links further on west from Crystal Palace to Streatham, Herne Hill, Dulwich etc. Also Orpington should have a service to Eltham for sure and Croydon. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 12, 2021 17:57:52 GMT
greg you said that the 31 has capacity issues, here is a solution The 148 is being reduced to 6bph, it is currently about 8bph. Without making the corridor too overbussed between Notting Hill and Shep Bush, you could then increase the 31 by an extra 2bph from the 148 or even some VMHs from the 113 when it is reduced which means that the 31 would be increased with no extra cost and the whole route is busy so I could definitely see that being an option. As for the 29 and 253 though they do follow each other from Camden Town to Manor House they are definitely needed along there so I wouldn't use that an example.
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