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Post by ronnie on Aug 7, 2021 7:24:49 GMT
Fully agree and it’s a topic close to heart (have been driving for just over 2 years now so “fresh” views from me!) A13 is definitely the worst (beats even the A406 which is 2nd). The whole of east London in general is quite poor but the A13 takes the cake for sure. Almost ironical because almost as soon as you cross the M25 it becomes fairly tranquil I have seen such lousy driving on the A13 that it’s just impossible to describe. Lane change without signals, overspending, weaving, tailgaiting etc is common but there have been a few fairly dangerous ones: - eastbound at the Gale street junction once I was in the middle lane, a car went from the outside lane straight onto the exit at Gale street! All of this happened at around the 50mph mark! - westbound just before the Canning Town flyover where the speed limit all of a sudden drops from 50 to 30, I have had at times people coming up so fast behind me abs then somehow swinging out of the way. I always make it a point to move onto the inside lanes beforehand But even leaving these aside - there is a general drop in standards. Take motorway driving - esp on the M25 you will get so many road hogs. The 1st lane remains empty (some stigma attached to it as it is only supposed to br used by slow lorry drivers!) and you get a few odd vehicles in the 2nd lane, then the 3rd lane is the most crowded as everyone tries to stick to the limit on that lane! So one is forced to go to the outermost lane to overtake all the time. Last weekend I think I overtook (undertook!) 30+ cars (all in lane 3 and some in lane 2) between J8 and J9 of the M25 while I was driving in the innermost lane just below the speed limit! The inside lane was completely empty, and the 3rd lane seemed to be like barking road, so many cars were on it I have now also had cars changing lanes on motorways without indicating (a black cab did it last Saturday on the M25 forcing me to change my maneouvre). It’s getting lousy and dangerous frankly Similarly 'fresh' here having passed my test at the beginning of 2019, at the tender age of 32. I picked a driving school close to my office, deep in zone 1 - my first roundabout lesson was around the Museum of London roundabout and St. Paul's gyratory! The nearest test centre to home was Wood Green, which had recently been given the unfortunate accolade of having the highest failure rate in the country, so I took some advice and selected Hendon for my test instead, which has a slightly better standard of driving and more forgiving routes. A typical lesson in the last three months or so would involve my instructor meeting me at Seven Sisters (he lived in Walthamstow and I was his first pupil of the day), us driving up through Muswell Hill to the A406, along to Henly's Corner, then up the A1 to Hendon/Mill Hill where we would practice some test routes then drive down the A41 back to West Hampstead before diving into some backroute runs through Hampstead and Kentish Town back to Bloomsbury. It was a great variety of routes and did get me confident on busy inner London roads and three lanes of 50mph dual carriageway, which would be handy for the sort of drives I'd end up doing once qualified. I was a nervous test pupil but did pass first time with a forgiving route on the day and no visit to Apex Corner! Three days after passing I jumped on a train to Peterborough and gave someone over ten years younger than me about month's wages in cash for a car which I then drove home down the A1, solo, in a torrential storm. I've found that different parts of the country have different 'antisocial' driving elements and surprise hazards. The things that come up in this thread - overall poor roadcraft, speeding, erratic lane changes, seem especially to be a London/SE thing, but also common in most other large urban areas. Birmingham is probably the scariest city I've driven in, as the motorway-style grade separated junctions run right through to the centre and you have to know your lane and be ready to change lanes with confidence, else you end up on a flyover sailing away from your intended destination at the skip of a beat. Inner city Birmingham has some of the highest insurance premiums in the UK because of the state of the driving there, as well as vehicle crime. Up the country, much of the A1 through the East of England is two lanes and very heavily used by lorries from the container ports (Felixstowe, Tilbury, Thamesport) to the North/NW of the country - here you will get lorries in both lanes as one attempts to overtake another at 0.5mph difference. At times of the day/week lorries will constitute over 50% of the traffic and the drivers do think they run the show - it is their working day. It is also the working day of the 12mph tractor that pulls out from a side road at the first sign of a gap! I'm often tailgated on rural roads where local drivers know the corners and passing points well, but I don't. In turn, there are rural routes in Bucks/Herts where I can find myself up the tail of a less confident/familiar driver and have to check myself to hang back and give some room. It is called courtesy. Within London, I do think the standard of driving on the A13 is probably the poorest of the bunch, with the A406 slightly behind, while the A40 and A4 tend to be OK, if not examplar. Nasty junctions like Hanger Lane tend to be OK as long as you commit to the best lane well in advance, stick to it and keep an eye out for anyone trying to cut over. I do consider myself a fairly brisk driver, though (within legal limits) which might ward off some chancers. The tossers were in force when I qualified, all my experience has done is open my eyes to the extent of it, IMO. My test centre was goodmayes (I used to stay on the isle of dogs while my instructor lived in goodmayes so goodmayes it eas). After the initial lessons we used to take the A13 (me driving) all the way to the lodge avenue exit (me driving) - this was on Saturday / Sunday mornings so manageable but still …. Goodmayes has all those lovely little easy roundabouts in ilford, barking plus the a406 as well to contend with. I passed on my 2nd attempt - snowed the previous day, got taken around all the roundabouts in ilford and in barking (ilford: green lane / high road / winston way roundabout, greggs approach / winston way roundabout, ilford lane / winston way roundabout, the ilford one way system, the a406 between ilford and barking, the barking road roundabout, barking a406 London road / abbey road roundabout, long bridge road roundabout!). It also rained very heavily the moment I stepped onto the a406, a white van barged in front of me wrongly on the barking a406 roundabout, it was so bad that my evaluator pressed the horn! But luckily I passed! Then I bought a car from cargiant (had a friend come over with me for “support” and drove all the way from Harlesden, west way, ring road and the highway to the isle of dogs! My daughter had also been born by that time - first weekend out went to Southend, then followed up by a couple of trips to Bicester village (shopping what else!) overall motorway driving / driving outside of London was easier as people were more courteous and actually followed rules. Once you cross the M25 the A13 becomes so blissful! Nowadays though you almost need to guess what others are doing which can get annoying (and be very very careful!) motorway lane hogging wasn’t this bad previously - nowadays it’s just horrible frankly |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 7, 2021 10:17:27 GMT
You have reminded me about the mad roundabout in Barking where cars on the roundabout have to stop give way to cars approaching! PS I have to say I strongly disagree about Redbridge roundabout - its awful 
If you think that Barking roundabout is odd, you should try driving on the magic roundabout at Swindon. It is 5 mini-roundabouts around another so can go clockwise on outer lanes (as normal), or counter-clockwise around the central roundabout (opposite to normal), of which there are upto 4 lanes imgur.com/gallery/OQaDN/comment/550966225Apparently it’s 4th scariest junction in UK to drive through (but I don’t know what top 3 are) I remember driving up to that and thinking wtf do I do here. Then watched what another car did. |
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Post by ronnie on Aug 7, 2021 11:32:32 GMT
If you think that Barking roundabout is odd, you should try driving on the magic roundabout at Swindon. It is 5 mini-roundabouts around another so can go clockwise on outer lanes (as normal), or counter-clockwise around the central roundabout (opposite to normal), of which there are upto 4 lanes imgur.com/gallery/OQaDN/comment/550966225Apparently it’s 4th scariest junction in UK to drive through (but I don’t know what top 3 are) I remember driving up to that and thinking wtf do I do here. Then watched what another car did. We have another one of those in London near Hatton Cross. I saw it for the first time while doing the X26 and was like - what on earth is going on! Hangar lane is supposedly the scariest junction in the U.K. (I have only used the underpass on the A40 and one left turn so can’t comment). The A406/A13 one is bad in my view - too much confusion, exits are bad frankly |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 7, 2021 12:06:10 GMT
I remember driving up to that and thinking wtf do I do here. Then watched what another car did. We have another one of those in London near Hatton Cross. I saw it for the first time while doing the X26 and was like - what on earth is going on! Hangar lane is supposedly the scariest junction in the U.K. (I have only used the underpass on the A40 and one left turn so can’t comment). The A406/A13 one is bad in my view - too much confusion, exits are bad frankly Its right near the football ground in Swindon and encountered it the season they were in the Premiership ... so must be 28-29 years ago. Was completely alien to me at the time. I have not driven down the A40 into for ages, so can't really recall Hanger Lane ... but there are plenty of scary junctions around London |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 13:58:01 GMT
We have another one of those in London near Hatton Cross. I saw it for the first time while doing the X26 and was like - what on earth is going on! Hangar lane is supposedly the scariest junction in the U.K. (I have only used the underpass on the A40 and one left turn so can’t comment). The A406/A13 one is bad in my view - too much confusion, exits are bad frankly Its right near the football ground in Swindon and encountered it the season they were in the Premiership ... so must be 28-29 years ago. Was completely alien to me at the time. I have not driven down the A40 into for ages, so can't really recall Hanger Lane ... but there are plenty of scary junctions around London I definitely agree that Hanger Lane Gyratory is one of the scariest, if not the scariest. Any junction involving a motorway can be particularly hazardous too, M25 J13 (Staines) and J14 (Heathrow) and M40 J2 (Beaconsfield) in particular but there's plenty more like these |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 7, 2021 14:50:14 GMT
The standard of driving has been terrible for a number of years. The A23, Brixton Water Lane & Effra Road are particular roads where people think it’s Need for Speed and just shocking driving in general.
As for my own experience of driving, it’s very minimal but I absolutely hated Lombard Roundabout on the A23.
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Post by 725DYE on Aug 7, 2021 16:26:45 GMT
The standard of driving has been terrible for a number of years. The A23, Brixton Water Lane & Effra Road are particular roads where people think it’s Need for Speed and just shocking driving in general. As for my own experience of driving, it’s very minimal but I absolutely hated Lombard Roundabout on the A23. I avoid the A23 at all costs. If I'm driving down to the M25 I'll always take the A217 or A24. Good thing those two roads have now been absolutely ruined with average speed checks which serve no good purpose to anyone. |
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Post by Volvo on Aug 20, 2021 20:24:33 GMT
The standards of driving in the UK is just undescribely bad but I only take comfort in the fact that in Italy things are considerably worse!!
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 20, 2021 21:20:47 GMT
Its right near the football ground in Swindon and encountered it the season they were in the Premiership ... so must be 28-29 years ago. Was completely alien to me at the time. I have not driven down the A40 into for ages, so can't really recall Hanger Lane ... but there are plenty of scary junctions around London I definitely agree that Hanger Lane Gyratory is one of the scariest, if not the scariest. Any junction involving a motorway can be particularly hazardous too, M25 J13 (Staines) and J14 (Heathrow) and M40 J2 (Beaconsfield) in particular but there's plenty more like these Would say Beckton is a lot worse than Hanger Lane, being a gyratory the rule at Hanger Lane is just be in the right lane. But at Beckton the limit is 50mph and people always have to switch lanes as its a huge roundabout. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 20, 2021 23:10:18 GMT
I definitely agree that Hanger Lane Gyratory is one of the scariest, if not the scariest. Any junction involving a motorway can be particularly hazardous too, M25 J13 (Staines) and J14 (Heathrow) and M40 J2 (Beaconsfield) in particular but there's plenty more like these Would say Beckton is a lot worse than Hanger Lane, being a gyratory the rule at Hanger Lane is just be in the right lane. But at Beckton the limit is 50mph and people always have to switch lanes as its a huge roundabout. Both are a piece of pie, if you are a good driver, you would conquer them with your eyes closed. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 20, 2021 23:47:28 GMT
WH241 I have to give you credit for this thread. Something I felt that has not been discussed as much is the hard driving test centres to do your test. I don't know for the rest of the folk on here whether you live in London or out of London but I remembered 10 plus years ago of doing my lessons. My instructor actually told me Wanstead is one of the toughest places to pass your test. Especially that roundabout by Redbridge Station. Some have told me Enfield is another tricky place to pass. I'm not sure about Wood Green and Chingford though. Wanstead had the highest fail rate in the late 90's it got as bad as Walthamstow test centre which closed down years ago. The construction of the M11 link road (now the A12) did not help as the area was blighted with traffic etc. The biggest problem parts of the test was Redbridge Roundabout, Leytonstone Green Man roundabout and South Woodford Charlie Browns roundabout. Although most of these have traffic lights they did not in the past. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 20, 2021 23:49:27 GMT
The 112 interestingly reminds me of the 173 in the sense when the NCR has no issues that bus is your best friend but when there's issues it becomes your nightmare. Going back to Henlys Corner where there's two lanes that go towards Brent Cross and the other two goes towards Mill Hill on the A1 you see so many drivers literally cut you up at the last minute before the split happens. I purposely to try to give enough space as much as I can and drive accordingly but my goodness. Those roads can really put people off driving. The 112, 232, 173, 34 and to an extent the 95 are some routes I'd honestly hate to drive or control. I do always wonder what the reactions at Go Ahead and Stagecoach iBus are when the A13 goes down and every route slowly descends into total chaos. I'd imagine that's one benefit of the North Circular once you're west/north of Charlie Browns in the fact that while the road itself may become a standstill, the spillover into neighbouring areas isn't that bad. 34 and 173 piece of pie to drive. Would rather do those anyday than boring routes like 379. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 20, 2021 23:51:06 GMT
WH241 I have to give you credit for this thread. Something I felt that has not been discussed as much is the hard driving test centres to do your test. I don't know for the rest of the folk on here whether you live in London or out of London but I remembered 10 plus years ago of doing my lessons. My instructor actually told me Wanstead is one of the toughest places to pass your test. Especially that roundabout by Redbridge Station. Some have told me Enfield is another tricky place to pass. I'm not sure about Wood Green and Chingford though. I searched this up, some recent data I can find is that the hardest test centres to pass in London are 1. Belvedere 2. Wanstead 3. Barking 4. Barnet 5. Wood Green ( www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/hardest-easiest-places-london-pass-16482539 ) Although I have seen in multiple spots now that the Erith test centre topped the hardest in London this year. I passed at Wanstead test centre back in the 90's; first time  |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 21, 2021 0:00:19 GMT
WH241 I have to give you credit for this thread. Something I felt that has not been discussed as much is the hard driving test centres to do your test. I don't know for the rest of the folk on here whether you live in London or out of London but I remembered 10 plus years ago of doing my lessons. My instructor actually told me Wanstead is one of the toughest places to pass your test. Especially that roundabout by Redbridge Station. Some have told me Enfield is another tricky place to pass. I'm not sure about Wood Green and Chingford though. Redbridge Roundabout is another of those nightmare places to drive in East London from my experience especially when coming from Redbridge Lane East to join the roundabout itself which really should have its own set of lights for to/from that and lane discipline on the roundabout is generally poor a lot of the time. The approach to the roundabout on the A12 from Wanstead tends to see a lot of people suddenly changing from the outer lane to join the A406/M11 at the last second and drivers cutting up each other is common on there all the time. I agree that when they installed lights at the roundabout, Redbridge Lane East should have been signal controlled. It takes ages for cars to get out from there and many a 145 and 366 lost a hell of a lot of time. It was even worst for the 366 years ago as it had to come back into the station serving the junction of the roundabout twice. Some mornings it was common to lose around 10 minutes on a 145 just negotiatiing Redbridge Stn. Thankfully it no longer goes into the station and it now stops on the outside at what used to be a coach stop or where the Eastern National 400 and number 2 used to stop. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 21, 2021 0:11:24 GMT
One thing that I have noticed over the years that has bought the standard of driving down is people following sat nav and people on mobile phone. When I started driving this was virtually non existent, did not see it happening. Now people use the sat nav for everything and if the things says turn left, or bare left, they would do it without thinking as their brain becomes robotic and second place to the sat nav. So if there is any other vehicles they would hit them or nearly collide.
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