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Post by twobellstogo on Aug 20, 2021 16:40:40 GMT
This seems about the right place to put this.
The latest edition of ‘Buses’ magazine has an interesting article on Arriva, and where they appear to be going wrong. I certainly won’t go into depth on the article, but much seems to be based around an insipid, boring image, an inability to sell themselves properly, interference from top managers and a really poor website and internet offering.
I was in Chatham earlier this week and looking at the buses there I had the overwhelming feeling of ‘not bothered’ and ‘this is the transport of last resort’. Chatham is good bus operating territory: I’m sure it could be better.
The article mentioned First starting up local images (eg Buses of Somerset) - although this would be a superficial change, perhaps ‘Medway Buses’ rather than ‘Arriva’ would be a start?
What does the forum think? Or am I and Buses magazine wrong and Arriva is all fine and dandy?
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Post by greenboy on Aug 20, 2021 17:26:35 GMT
This seems about the right place to put this. The latest edition of ‘Buses’ magazine has an interesting article on Arriva, and where they appear to be going wrong. I certainly won’t go into depth on the article, but much seems to be based around an insipid, boring image, an inability to sell themselves properly, interference from top managers and a really poor website and internet offering. I was in Chatham earlier this week and looking at the buses there I had the overwhelming feeling of ‘not bothered’ and ‘this is the transport of last resort’. Chatham is good bus operating territory: I’m sure it could be better. The article mentioned First starting up local images (eg Buses of Somerset) - although this would be a superficial change, perhaps ‘Medway Buses’ rather than ‘Arriva’ would be a start? What does the forum think? Or am I and Buses magazine wrong and Arriva is all fine and dandy? Yes it's an interesting article in Buses magazine and I certainly agree with you about Chatham. A hotchpotch of buses in various liveries, some with route branding from previous lives crudely removed and still visible. The Sapphire concept seems to have been all but abandoned, three of the four Sapphire MMC's for the 700 to Bluewater have gone to Leicester with older buses replacing them and the one remaining MMC (6520) is likely to turn up on any route despite still carrying route 700 branding. The Sapphire buses for the 101 are now 6 or 7 years old and new buses ordered for the route have apparently been cancelled. As mentioned in the article, paper timetables seem to have been abandoned and online information is rather difficult to find. Sheerness is going and there are question marks over the long term future of Tunbridge Wells and regular complaints on social media about services from Northfleet which is another area that should be good bus operating territory. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Aug 20, 2021 19:16:13 GMT
Regarding what's going on with Arriva - my opinion is that as a company IMO they haven't been very innovative.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 20, 2021 20:39:27 GMT
This seems about the right place to put this. The latest edition of ‘Buses’ magazine has an interesting article on Arriva, and where they appear to be going wrong. I certainly won’t go into depth on the article, but much seems to be based around an insipid, boring image, an inability to sell themselves properly, interference from top managers and a really poor website and internet offering. I was in Chatham earlier this week and looking at the buses there I had the overwhelming feeling of ‘not bothered’ and ‘this is the transport of last resort’. Chatham is good bus operating territory: I’m sure it could be better. The article mentioned First starting up local images (eg Buses of Somerset) - although this would be a superficial change, perhaps ‘Medway Buses’ rather than ‘Arriva’ would be a start? What does the forum think? Or am I and Buses magazine wrong and Arriva is all fine and dandy? I can’t comment on Chatham as I’ve not used that network but Southend seems to have turned a corner having long been the dumping ground for Southern Counties older vehicles. Services were busy and they seemed pretty reliable. The website has always been horrendous - the old one was better but nowhere as good as First or Stagecoach’s own sites, definitely something they seriously need to improve. I have used their app in the past to claim a free ticket and that wasn’t actually bad though |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 21:49:31 GMT
This seems about the right place to put this. The latest edition of ‘Buses’ magazine has an interesting article on Arriva, and where they appear to be going wrong. I certainly won’t go into depth on the article, but much seems to be based around an insipid, boring image, an inability to sell themselves properly, interference from top managers and a really poor website and internet offering. I was in Chatham earlier this week and looking at the buses there I had the overwhelming feeling of ‘not bothered’ and ‘this is the transport of last resort’. Chatham is good bus operating territory: I’m sure it could be better. The article mentioned First starting up local images (eg Buses of Somerset) - although this would be a superficial change, perhaps ‘Medway Buses’ rather than ‘Arriva’ would be a start? What does the forum think? Or am I and Buses magazine wrong and Arriva is all fine and dandy? I can’t comment on Chatham as I’ve not used that network but Southend seems to have turned a corner having long been the dumping ground for Southern Counties older vehicles. Services were busy and they seemed pretty reliable. That seems to have switched to Guildford these days, whose native 2015 Streetlites (and imported 2014 Sapphire versions and ~2017 Enviro 200MMCs) have all been replaced by 15 year old Citaros from The Shires, 12-14 year old Enviros from Kent, and 10+ year old Versas from Southend. It's flagship 34/35 MAX - later Sapphire upgraded - route is now home to a right mix of stock. The depot has shedded a lot of work over the years for various reasons, and from an outsider's perspective is either struggling or just doesn't care anymore. I expect DB haven't wanted to invest too much in recent years as they've looked to sell up, but the way they'd seemingly let certain parts of it already go - and now suffering the effects of COVID - I'd imagine Arriva isn't an overall attractive prospect to any potential purchaser anymore. Maybe we will just see smaller sell-offs like Cannock, or more throwing in of towels like Sheerness? |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 21, 2021 22:58:49 GMT
I can’t comment on Chatham as I’ve not used that network but Southend seems to have turned a corner having long been the dumping ground for Southern Counties older vehicles. Services were busy and they seemed pretty reliable. That seems to have switched to Guildford these days, whose native 2015 Streetlites (and imported 2014 Sapphire versions and ~2017 Enviro 200MMCs) have all been replaced by 15 year old Citaros from The Shires, 12-14 year old Enviros from Kent, and 10+ year old Versas from Southend. It's flagship 34/35 MAX - later Sapphire upgraded - route is now home to a right mix of stock. The depot has shedded a lot of work over the years for various reasons, and from an outsider's perspective is either struggling or just doesn't care anymore. I expect DB haven't wanted to invest too much in recent years as they've looked to sell up, but the way they'd seemingly let certain parts of it already go - and now suffering the effects of COVID - I'd imagine Arriva isn't an overall attractive prospect to any potential purchaser anymore. Maybe we will just see smaller sell-offs like Cannock, or more throwing in of towels like Sheerness? Sounds just like what Southend was throughout the 00's - just before the new Versa's arrived around 2010/2011, the fleet was almost pre Y reg vehicles with Pointer Darts making up most of the fleet alongside a small amount of step entrance deckers which were at least 20 years old at the time. After the Versas came, they got more secondhand stuff but far younger vehicles at least as well as some new Streetlites and MMC Enviro 400's with the Darts and step Olympians disposed of. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 14:45:06 GMT
I live in Arriva land , Northfleet being nearest non TfL garage , DT nearest TfL garage.
No qualms with DT at all, shame they lost the 160 , 469 and B12, but the single deck buses seemed to be getting neglected. Some of the E200s looked awful towards the end of their tenure on the 428 and 469. I love their DD fleet, nicely upholstered seats, and some nice routes (301 and 269 my favourites)
NF is totally different. The 414 still hasn’t been put back to x30 mins, the 423 downgraded to around every 90 mins and the 477 remains x40 mins. The latter also lost its evening and Sunday service to Orpington.
Arriva Click is very good though, I use this regularly and it’s really useful and cheap. Very useful for me as I work shifts and travel to and from Ebbsfleet International.
Fastrack B is a shambles generally, quite unreliable, and it’s timetable is purely designed on operational convenience. I live west of Ebbsfleet, so travelling to and from there at opposing ends of the day, means buses finish earlier and start later. They did away with the early jnys from Greenhithe to Gravesend a while ago , and the last bus towards Dartford from Ebbsfleet is 2310 MonSat. There are around 4 more trains from St Pancras after 2310, so that is where Arriva Click comes in useful as that doesn’t finish until 0100.
No / little service regulation. If the traffic goes wrong, as it very often does because of the Dartford Crossing plus ongoing roadworks around Bluewater on the A2, all the services seize up and then run together. It is very rare to see any Fastrack buses being curtailed.
The school day services on the 414 are unreliable, I’ve lost count how many times my kids have called saying they are stranded. We have to pay over £700 p.a for the privileged kids bus pass, for a joke of a service. During covid specials, Kings Ferry and others stepped in to provide extra buses. These were wonderful, my kids loved the temporary luxury of a coach taking them to school. Alas , it’s now back to a 54/04 or older , crowd mini SLF.
the drivers I will praise though, they have kept the services running during covid, with no way near the same level of protection as TfL drivers, so I’m not going to include them in any criticism . I have always found them polite and friendly group.
Arriva NF have very little , if any, competition which I think leads to quite high fares.
I dont think it would be any better with anyone else though, so it’s a feeling of we’re stuck with what we’ve got and that’s it. I suppose NF is also lucky inasmuch it has received newer buses than some Arriva depots, which must mean it makes a healthy profit.
If I could ask for one thing, I think it would be for later Fastrack B services towards Dartford.
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Post by danorak on Aug 22, 2021 19:41:29 GMT
This seems about the right place to put this. The latest edition of ‘Buses’ magazine has an interesting article on Arriva, and where they appear to be going wrong. I certainly won’t go into depth on the article, but much seems to be based around an insipid, boring image, an inability to sell themselves properly, interference from top managers and a really poor website and internet offering. I was in Chatham earlier this week and looking at the buses there I had the overwhelming feeling of ‘not bothered’ and ‘this is the transport of last resort’. Chatham is good bus operating territory: I’m sure it could be better. The article mentioned First starting up local images (eg Buses of Somerset) - although this would be a superficial change, perhaps ‘Medway Buses’ rather than ‘Arriva’ would be a start? What does the forum think? Or am I and Buses magazine wrong and Arriva is all fine and dandy? Roger French has had a bit to say about Arriva on his blog I think. I struggle to see what their strategy is, or even if they have one. Thought this was quite a bold piece for Buses magazine really as they tend not to be directly critical but it's pretty clear Arriva has lost its way. |
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 22, 2021 22:05:33 GMT
I don't think it's fair on ProBoards as there's not enough server space to contain everything that's wrong with Arriva at the moment  I think the sale by DB, then deciding not to sell, then sale and possible breakup of the firm, before deciding to keep it after all, lack of investment in electric buses in London until very recently, Covid impact, dropping of premium brands outside London may not have helped much  In contrast with Stagecoach London, a lot of Arriva buses look down at heel. Save for recent refurbishments, a lot of vehicles have lots of dents around their side skirts, or in some places, a little rust and corrosion (EN35 has a chunk missing from RH bumper on the corner). The Dartford busted wash debacle wouldn't have helped with presentation in that part of the world. LTs look a mess compared to other operators, namely grubby fleetnames after removal of advertising wraps. HA31 on the 133 looked sorry for herself when at Liverpool Street today, she's barely 5 years old  Perhaps presentation isn't such a big deal as a lot more are working from home and not going into work by bus. Saw DW462 on the 123 rear blinded for the N19 in Woodford this afternoon. I put that down to a seized or out of sync smart blind... |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 4, 2021 20:36:12 GMT
We can only speculate on whether any transport giant such as Abellio, Transdev, Comfort DelGro or National Express helps DB to offload Arriva.
In some European countries, and in some of the above cases London, monopoly considerations may mitigate against some such takeovers. Some aspiring purchasers may also be short of funds to expand on such a large scale due to Covid losses.
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Post by tony4387 on Sept 4, 2021 21:54:41 GMT
I'd be very surprised if national express decided to purchase any part of the arriva group
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Post by Quoll662 on Sept 5, 2021 9:07:49 GMT
We can only speculate on whether any transport giant such as Abellio, Transdev, Comfort DelGro or National Express helps DB to offload Arriva. In some European countries, and in some of the above cases London, monopoly considerations may mitigate against some such takeovers. Some aspiring purchasers may also be short of funds to expand on such a large scale due to Covid losses. I suspect you may be right. With London I speculate that the garages would be sold off to: AD, E, EC, WN, AR, GY, DX and DT - Would be sold to Transdev SF - Would be sold to GAL with routes 38 and 73 AE - Would be sold to HCT Group with route 253 Route 242 - Would be novated to Tower Transit CT - Would be redeveloped into a bus station and blocks of flats. BN - Would be sold to Abellio London TH, TC and N - Would be sold to Stagecoach Selkent |
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 5, 2021 9:09:59 GMT
We can only speculate on whether any transport giant such as Abellio, Transdev, Comfort DelGro or National Express helps DB to offload Arriva. In some European countries, and in some of the above cases London, monopoly considerations may mitigate against some such takeovers. Some aspiring purchasers may also be short of funds to expand on such a large scale due to Covid losses. I suspect you may be right. With London I speculate that the garages would be sold off to: AD, E, EC, WN, AR, GY, DX and DT - Would be sold to Transdev SF - Would be sold to GAL with routes 38 and 73 AE - Would be sold to HCT Group with route 253 Route 242 - Would be sold to Tower Transit CT - Would be redeveloped into a bus station and blocks of flats. BN - Would be sold to Abellio London TH, TC and N - Would be sold to Stagecoach Selkent DB would not be interested in selling garages off individually, in fact I doubt they would consider selling off Arriva London separately from the rest of UK Bus. If someone came along and said they wanted to buy UK Bus, they may listen, but would need to be for a figure near to their valuation, as they have previously shown, they are not prepared to dispose of it at a discount. In fact the latest update from DB in May was that they were looking to sell the non-core parts of the business, but UK Bus was classified as core. |
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 5, 2021 9:45:56 GMT
I think Arriva Bus UK will continue to be treated by DB as a "Cash Cow" for the foreseeable future, with more marginal operations being allowed to fade away, or sold piecemeal to other operators if the price is right, as has been happening in the Midlands and Yorkshire. I can't see them carving up London and I don't think any other transport operator has the resources to buy Arriva Bus UK as a whole.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 5, 2021 13:34:51 GMT
We can only speculate on whether any transport giant such as Abellio, Transdev, Comfort DelGro or National Express helps DB to offload Arriva. In some European countries, and in some of the above cases London, monopoly considerations may mitigate against some such takeovers. Some aspiring purchasers may also be short of funds to expand on such a large scale due to Covid losses. I suspect you may be right. With London I speculate that the garages would be sold off to: AD, E, EC, WN, AR, GY, DX and DT - Would be sold to Transdev SF - Would be sold to GAL with routes 38 and 73 AE - Would be sold to HCT Group with route 253 Route 242 - Would be novated to Tower Transit CT - Would be redeveloped into a bus station and blocks of flats. BN - Would be sold to Abellio London TH, TC and N - Would be sold to Stagecoach Selkent Nice creative idea to give other operators the opportunity to expand in London. Furthermore, as Transdev have expanded their range of tendered services in Lancs & Yorks this year they would be suited to London tenders if interested. |
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