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Post by Paul on Oct 1, 2023 16:46:25 GMT
I’m not suggesting or insinuating that anyone here is doing this but it occurs to me that during the forthcoming Mayoral elections the Labour side could push the narrative that the ULEZ expansion cannot be rescinded despite Susan Hall being on the record as saying it would be removed on day one should she be elected. It would make for good election propaganda for Labour to claim that she’s lying and can’t remove the scheme - it could make a number of voters think twice about voting Conservative You want Labour to lie about Hall’s promise? Sounds par for Labour. Let’s be honest, they all lie. When it comes to putting an ‘X’ in the box, we’re all simply choosing the one we think is lying the least |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 1, 2023 18:36:10 GMT
The areas you describe are typical Tory voting areas, the majority are not, and even with ULEZ being implemented I don't predict a large swing of votes from Labour to Tory. Labour gained significant ground on the Tories in Uxbridge The last ‘blade runner’ map I saw showed the scope of black cameras spreading. It’s unlikely to be the same people vandalising all the cameras so it follows that the number of people sufficiently angered by Khan’s new tax is growing. Is it likely to result in a large enough swing to the Conservatives to win the election for Susan Hall? Possibly not but there’s a good chance the Labour vote will end up being split as there are also traditional Labour voters angered by ULEZ and while they might not be able to bring themselves to vote Conservative they could easily vote Liberal Democrat or an independent and take votes away from Khan allowing the Conservatives in Let’s not forget that the election won’t be fought just on the topic of ULEZ - many people, myself included, are aghast at the lawlessness on London’s streets and as far as I can tell Khan has only paid lip service to improving matters. He’s a ‘photo op’ politician - keen to get his face in there on the meaningless topic of the day but rather less keen to do some real work and get some results. How anyone can consider him the best candidate to lead London is completely beyond me You're very right on the fact that this isn't about the ULEZ solely. People know what Labour are capable of, we've had a Labour mayoralty for 2 terms now, issue is they don't know what the Conservatives will do as it's been a fair while since Boris' day. Issue is that the next best thing is the leadership of the country as it's the same party. Uxbridge's by-election was predominantly ULEZ focussed and it's been attributed to Labour's loss, but what's not being mentioned is that the Conservatives lost a great deal of vote share, a reduction of 7.4%. Now while there may be people who flip to voting Tory, it's probably a case where even more may flip away. This is before you get onto the fact that the outer boroughs are very sparsely populated. The Mayoral election effectively just comes down to pure numbers, it's not a seat case like the general election is. The higher proportion of Labour voters in the inner boroughs will be the far stronger voice compared to the less voters of the outer boroughs. It's not often talked about how 2012 Boris only won by the skin of his teeth compared to Livingstone and Labour could have very well won should they have played their cards differently. Boris was lucky in the fact boroughs like Wandsworth, K&C, Merton and the City of London voted for him. They flipped back to Labour the elections after if I recall correctly. Hall will need to win over these inner London boroughs in order to even consider a win, but these inner boroughs are probably going to continue voting Labour. I think a real giveaway is how the Tories haven't played a strong candidate either. Nobody really knows who Susan Hall is and it makes sense to effectively use her on a campaign where they are better focussed on using their financial resources elsewhere to avert damage a GE will cause to them. If they are going to lose anyway you might as well not tarnish the reputation of someone who could face a realistic change of winning a few elections down the line. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Oct 2, 2023 8:25:47 GMT
Even though this debate has been fairly interesting to see various viewpoints all banter aside the toll charges that will be introduced to both the Blackwall Tunnel and Silvertown tunnel is alarming and the general public that are not aware about this will be in for a rude awakening.
Rotherhithe Tunnel will be in tatters considering the amount of traffic that will be trying to get through there as they will not want to pay x amount of money to go through Blackwall and Silvertown. So really from South East to East London you're left with two free routes. Tower Bridge or Rotherhithe Tunnel unless of course you want to wait until after hours to use Southwark bridge.
Also considering they've put a height restriction on some vehicles on the Rotherhithe tunnel is going to cause even more problems.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 2, 2023 20:43:16 GMT
I suggest you go and spend some time in Orpington or Biggin Hill. People are not going to forget about ULEZ. But your comments feed exactly into what I said; put it out there that people will forget and a Labour victory is inevitable and maybe some people will just think it’s isn’t worth their while voting. I can only speak for my local area but the depth of feeling and ill will towards Labour generally and Khan in particular is incredibly strong. If that sort of depth of feeling is repeated around the various outer boroughs then a Labour victory is not the inevitability some people keep trying to tell us it is The areas you describe are typical Tory voting areas, the majority are not, and even with ULEZ being implemented I don't predict a large swing of votes from Labour to Tory. Labour gained significant ground on the Tories in Uxbridge They should have won Uxbridge by a landslide if it was not for that nincompoop Khan, he should have LISTENED to his leader. |
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Post by ronnie on Oct 2, 2023 21:38:41 GMT
Even though this debate has been fairly interesting to see various viewpoints all banter aside the toll charges that will be introduced to both the Blackwall Tunnel and Silvertown tunnel is alarming and the general public that are not aware about this will be in for a rude awakening. Rotherhithe Tunnel will be in tatters considering the amount of traffic that will be trying to get through there as they will not want to pay x amount of money to go through Blackwall and Silvertown. So really from South East to East London you're left with two free routes. Tower Bridge or Rotherhithe Tunnel unless of course you want to wait until after hours to use Southwark bridge. Also considering they've put a height restriction on some vehicles on the Rotherhithe tunnel is going to cause even more problems. Indeed, the amount of people in Greenwich who don’t know about the toll on the blackwall tunnel is very high. Apparently the survey was conducted back in 2015. At that time I was not in Aldgate of all places and am sure a lot of people have had no inkling of this since then The woolwich ferry is a joke given it’s out of service most of the time. Having lived in Greenwich for 2.5 years now I have used it a grand total of 1 time and regretted it A new iron curtain has just descended between east / SE London |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 2, 2023 22:04:50 GMT
The areas you describe are typical Tory voting areas, the majority are not, and even with ULEZ being implemented I don't predict a large swing of votes from Labour to Tory. Labour gained significant ground on the Tories in Uxbridge They should have won Uxbridge by a landslide if it was not for that nincompoop Khan, he should have LISTENED to his leader. Equally, the Tories should of romped home in a constituency where they have been historically strong and we’re preaching anti ULEZ policies to anti ULEZ voters so it works both ways |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 2, 2023 22:07:32 GMT
They should have won Uxbridge by a landslide if it was not for that nincompoop Khan, he should have LISTENED to his leader. Equally, the Tories should of romped home in a constituency where they have been historically strong and we’re preaching anti ULEZ policies to anti ULEZ voters so it works both ways Notably the Tory loss was more than the Labour gain. Suggests more people are dissatisfied with the Tories than they are with Labour, considering many Tories switched to a Labour vote. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 2, 2023 22:15:53 GMT
Equally, the Tories should of romped home in a constituency where they have been historically strong and we’re preaching anti ULEZ policies to anti ULEZ voters so it works both ways Notably the Tory loss was more than the Labour gain. Suggests more people are dissatisfied with the Tories than they are with Labour, considering many Tories switched to a Labour vote. Then how does that explain why the Lib Dem’s dropped by nearly 5%? They could have lent their vote to Labour and the Tory voters simply stayed away. Turnout was down 17.5%, not uncommon for a by-election but certainly a big drop. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 2, 2023 22:19:51 GMT
Notably the Tory loss was more than the Labour gain. Suggests more people are dissatisfied with the Tories than they are with Labour, considering many Tories switched to a Labour vote. Then how does that explain why the Lib Dem’s dropped by nearly 5%? They could have lent their vote to Labour and the Tory voters simply stayed away. Turnout was down 17.5%, not uncommon for a by-election but certainly a big drop. My original point still stands, Labour is who increased their vote share in this round, and quite dramatically too. They could have won, but didn't for other reasons, but that was by no means a Tory victory. Wouldn't be surprised to see it go red in a GE, latest polls are now suggesting the Tories down to 149 seats. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 2, 2023 22:34:39 GMT
The last ‘blade runner’ map I saw showed the scope of black cameras spreading. It’s unlikely to be the same people vandalising all the cameras so it follows that the number of people sufficiently angered by Khan’s new tax is growing. Is it likely to result in a large enough swing to the Conservatives to win the election for Susan Hall? Possibly not but there’s a good chance the Labour vote will end up being split as there are also traditional Labour voters angered by ULEZ and while they might not be able to bring themselves to vote Conservative they could easily vote Liberal Democrat or an independent and take votes away from Khan allowing the Conservatives in Let’s not forget that the election won’t be fought just on the topic of ULEZ - many people, myself included, are aghast at the lawlessness on London’s streets and as far as I can tell Khan has only paid lip service to improving matters. He’s a ‘photo op’ politician - keen to get his face in there on the meaningless topic of the day but rather less keen to do some real work and get some results. How anyone can consider him the best candidate to lead London is completely beyond me Isn’t every politician just that though - a photo op politician or a “I promise” but then break it politician. I’ve never voted Khan for mayor but to think Hall is going to be any better on these issues personally is a reach. I do think people need to consider voting for an independent (not called Reform) more seriously - I did it last time and it felt refreshing not to vote for a status quo candidate even if she never got in. IMO, we need a progressive mayor and neither Khan or Hall are anything but No, other politicians are not like Khan, he is a weasel that gloats only for when the good is there. Avoids anything that can make him look bad or could question his legitimacy. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 2, 2023 22:35:51 GMT
They should have won Uxbridge by a landslide if it was not for that nincompoop Khan, he should have LISTENED to his leader. Equally, the Tories should of romped home in a constituency where they have been historically strong and we’re preaching anti ULEZ policies to anti ULEZ voters so it works both ways Why would they? People wanted to make a protest at Johnson himself for the lockdown etc. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 2, 2023 22:37:00 GMT
Equally, the Tories should of romped home in a constituency where they have been historically strong and we’re preaching anti ULEZ policies to anti ULEZ voters so it works both ways Notably the Tory loss was more than the Labour gain. Suggests more people are dissatisfied with the Tories than they are with Labour, considering many Tories switched to a Labour vote. Absolute nonsense. Even your own leader Starmer said otherwise. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 2, 2023 22:38:57 GMT
Even though this debate has been fairly interesting to see various viewpoints all banter aside the toll charges that will be introduced to both the Blackwall Tunnel and Silvertown tunnel is alarming and the general public that are not aware about this will be in for a rude awakening. Rotherhithe Tunnel will be in tatters considering the amount of traffic that will be trying to get through there as they will not want to pay x amount of money to go through Blackwall and Silvertown. So really from South East to East London you're left with two free routes. Tower Bridge or Rotherhithe Tunnel unless of course you want to wait until after hours to use Southwark bridge. Also considering they've put a height restriction on some vehicles on the Rotherhithe tunnel is going to cause even more problems. Indeed, the amount of people in Greenwich who don’t know about the toll on the blackwall tunnel is very high. Apparently the survey was conducted back in 2015. At that time I was not in Aldgate of all places and am sure a lot of people have had no inkling of this since then The woolwich ferry is a joke given it’s out of service most of the time. Having lived in Greenwich for 2.5 years now I have used it a grand total of 1 time and regretted it A new iron curtain has just descended between east / SE London The Woolwich ferry is out of date. I used it once in 2012 in one direction to see what it was all about. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 2, 2023 23:07:14 GMT
Isn’t every politician just that though - a photo op politician or a “I promise” but then break it politician. I’ve never voted Khan for mayor but to think Hall is going to be any better on these issues personally is a reach. I do think people need to consider voting for an independent (not called Reform) more seriously - I did it last time and it felt refreshing not to vote for a status quo candidate even if she never got in. IMO, we need a progressive mayor and neither Khan or Hall are anything but No, other politicians are not like Khan, he is a weasel that gloats only for when the good is there. Avoids anything that can make him look bad or could question his legitimacy. Now you really are being biased so I'll leave it there |
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Post by joefrombow on Oct 3, 2023 9:04:44 GMT
I think the Tories have purposely put up Susan hall knowing full well she doesn't have a chance because she's such a bad candidate so when more cuts etc hit London they can blame Labour and khan , unless we get a really good independent I think we are stuck with Khan
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