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Post by greenboy on Dec 5, 2021 17:26:28 GMT
W&C Bakerloo north of Stonebridge Park, south of Paddington H&C or partial reduction Piccadilly west of Rayners Lane Chesham branch of Met line could be at risk but I wouldn't cut it, also Met line runs alongside the Chiltern Railway stopping at every station from Rickmansworth to Amersham, that could be at risk too? Certainly the Piccadilly Line west of Rayners Lane and at the other end of the line the service to Cockfosters could be reduced a bit with the Wood Green reversing stub brought back into regular use.
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Post by ronnie on Dec 5, 2021 17:28:22 GMT
Precisely, that’s my point. If the residents of E / SE London can cope with no jubilee then am sure residents of West Acton won’t be too inconvenienced for the minor trek to N Acton, no? It's still a 20 minute walk to North Acton though, and whilst I think most residents should be able to cope, the elderly may struggle. I don't think the Jubilee line should be cut though, it still has purpose, especially east of London Bridge Agree and believe it’s more scaremongering to get money frankly. Some frequent trimming may be ok but whole scale cuts of lines is a big no. Else hello cars
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 17:38:36 GMT
It's still a 20 minute walk to North Acton though, and whilst I think most residents should be able to cope, the elderly may struggle. I don't think the Jubilee line should be cut though, it still has purpose, especially east of London Bridge Agree and believe it’s more scaremongering to get money frankly. Some frequent trimming may be ok but whole scale cuts of lines is a big no. Else hello cars Hence more congestion. Cutting tube lines will make the situation worse frankly, it won't make journey times any quicker.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 5, 2021 17:47:52 GMT
You might as well close the whole thing (Queen’s Park to Harrow & Wealdstone belongs to Network Rail). Maida Vale and Warwick Avenue are in very well off areas and Kilburn High Road is down the road from Kilburn Park. Yes possibly although I did wonder if the LO service to and from Euston would be able to cope on its own. It could, with longer trains, a frequency increase as far as Harrow & Wealdstone or possibly a combination of both. The extra trains/carriages could be sourced by reshuffling the London Overground fleet around.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 5, 2021 18:12:36 GMT
Yes possibly although I did wonder if the LO service to and from Euston would be able to cope on its own. It could, with longer trains, a frequency increase as far as Harrow & Wealdstone or possibly a combination of both. The extra trains/carriages could be sourced by reshuffling the London Overground fleet around. A frequency increase might mean a tight turnaround at Euston?
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 5, 2021 18:24:18 GMT
It could, with longer trains, a frequency increase as far as Harrow & Wealdstone or possibly a combination of both. The extra trains/carriages could be sourced by reshuffling the London Overground fleet around. A frequency increase might mean a tight turnaround at Euston? It would, but it might be possible with drivers stepping back (as they used to do at peak times at Bank on the Waterloo & City).
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Post by Busboy105 on Dec 5, 2021 22:16:20 GMT
Certainly the Piccadilly Line west of Rayners Lane and at the other end of the line the service to Cockfosters could be reduced a bit with the Wood Green reversing stub brought back into regular use. I don't think the Cockfosters bit needs to be reduced. It's very well used.
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Post by Lukeo on Dec 6, 2021 0:23:54 GMT
A frequency increase might mean a tight turnaround at Euston? It would, but it might be possible with drivers stepping back (as they used to do at peak times at Bank on the Waterloo & City). Drivers are not the only thing to consider. London Overground uses mainline platforms at Euston - in fact, only 1 platform - and there’s already often a wait to get in to Euston in the mornings. Trying to force a quicker turnaround just means less opportunity to make up time, and could inevitably make the service worse. The trains themselves have poor dwell times too thanks to only having 2 sets of doors per carriage, and this will be at its worst at Euston, and even then all of this is assuming they could even fit the increased frequency around the many other Euston arrivals and departures. I would welcome the increased frequency on the line though, and do hope the service gets to every 10 mins one day, but it definitely cannot handle Harrow to Stonebridge/Queen’s by itself in rush hour. Can’t see the bakerloo line closing anyway, it’s almost certainly just a political stunt. Have they not just begun refurbishing the trains?
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Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2021 2:35:14 GMT
It would, but it might be possible with drivers stepping back (as they used to do at peak times at Bank on the Waterloo & City). Drivers are not the only thing to consider. London Overground uses mainline platforms at Euston - in fact, only 1 platform - and there’s already often a wait to get in to Euston in the mornings. Trying to force a quicker turnaround just means less opportunity to make up time, and could inevitably make the service worse. The trains themselves have poor dwell times too thanks to only having 2 sets of doors per carriage, and this will be at its worst at Euston, and even then all of this is assuming they could even fit the increased frequency around the many other Euston arrivals and departures. I would welcome the increased frequency on the line though, and do hope the service gets to every 10 mins one day, but it definitely cannot handle Harrow to Stonebridge/Queen’s by itself in rush hour. Can’t see the bakerloo line closing anyway, it’s almost certainly just a political stunt. Have they not just begun refurbishing the trains? I don't think TfL are no longer bothered whether they provide a proper service or not as we've seen with buses already - if it comes to light that closing the Bakerloo even partially represents a financial saving, they'll certainly explore it political stunt or not. Even if the trains have began refurbishment, stopping it now would still save them money in the long run - hopefully, it doesn't come to this but I'm not ruling out such a measure on the Bakerloo or even other lines. Realistically, only the busiest lines will likely be immune should any major cuts happen which would more or less be the other deep level lines.
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Post by joefrombow on Dec 6, 2021 17:02:55 GMT
Where do I start ....
Central - Woodford/Hainault branch I would get rid off the staff at the stations inbetween (if there are any now) and run it in a similar fashion to the DLR and also run 20 mins frequency during peaks with maybe a half hourly through train at all other times no service after 22:00 M-S and no service Sundays ,
15 min service beyond Northolt/Loughton/Newbury Park except during peaks .
Circle/Hammersmith - I would leave alone works as is I think .
Bakerloo - M-F only Every 10 mins with extra trains during peaks no service after 22:00 and no service beyond Stonebridge pk at all times ( Save on mileage on ageing rolling stock and save money not running weekends duplicated mainly through town with jubilee and Overground covers all of North section from Queens Park )
District - Edgware Rd service would stop at High St Ken at all times except peaks and Olympia branch would close at all times (Walk for Olympia and use Circle for Edgware Road).
Jubilee - Terminate most trains at Wembley Pk and have a 10 min through train to Stanmore except during peaks .
Northern - Mill Hill branch would close .
Metropolitan - Run a 30 min shuttle between Chalfont & Chesham with a 4 car Tube unit saved from one of the other lines that has been cut back and have a 15 minute service on the rest of the line from Baker St alternating to Amersham/Watford with a 15 minute service to Uxbridge from Aldgate except during peaks .
Piccadilly - No service beyond Rayner's Lane at all times .
Victoria - would be left as is
Waterloo - as is now peaks only M-F
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Post by Busboy105 on Dec 6, 2021 17:29:14 GMT
Where do I start .... Central - Woodford/Hainault branch I would get rid off the staff at the stations inbetween (if there are any now) and run it in a similar fashion to the DLR and also run 20 mins frequency during peaks with maybe a half hourly through train at all other times no service after 22:00 M-S and no service Sundays , 15 min service beyond Northolt/Loughton/Newbury Park except during peaks . Circle/Hammersmith - I would leave alone works as is I think . Bakerloo - M-F only Every 10 mins with extra trains during peaks no service after 22:00 and no service beyond Stonebridge pk at all times ( Save on mileage on ageing rolling stock and save money not running weekends duplicated mainly through town with jubilee and Overground covers all of North section from Queens Park ) District - Edgware Rd service would stop at High St Ken at all times except peaks and Olympia branch would close at all times (Walk for Olympia and use Circle for Edgware Road). Jubilee - Terminate most trains at Wembley Pk and have a 10 min through train to Stanmore except during peaks . Northern - Mill Hill branch would close . Metropolitan - Run a 30 min shuttle between Chalfont & Chesham with a 4 car Tube unit saved from one of the other lines that has been cut back and have a 15 minute service on the rest of the line from Baker St alternating to Amersham/Watford with a 15 minute service to Uxbridge from Aldgate except during peaks . Piccadilly - No service beyond Rayner's Lane at all times . Victoria - would be left as is Waterloo - as is now peaks only M-F Mill Hill East just got an increased service so it would be stupid to shut it. Plus it can really helpful when the Millbrook Park development finishes
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Post by greenboy on Dec 6, 2021 18:07:55 GMT
Where do I start .... Central - Woodford/Hainault branch I would get rid off the staff at the stations inbetween (if there are any now) and run it in a similar fashion to the DLR and also run 20 mins frequency during peaks with maybe a half hourly through train at all other times no service after 22:00 M-S and no service Sundays , 15 min service beyond Northolt/Loughton/Newbury Park except during peaks . Circle/Hammersmith - I would leave alone works as is I think . Bakerloo - M-F only Every 10 mins with extra trains during peaks no service after 22:00 and no service beyond Stonebridge pk at all times ( Save on mileage on ageing rolling stock and save money not running weekends duplicated mainly through town with jubilee and Overground covers all of North section from Queens Park ) District - Edgware Rd service would stop at High St Ken at all times except peaks and Olympia branch would close at all times (Walk for Olympia and use Circle for Edgware Road). Jubilee - Terminate most trains at Wembley Pk and have a 10 min through train to Stanmore except during peaks . Northern - Mill Hill branch would close . Metropolitan - Run a 30 min shuttle between Chalfont & Chesham with a 4 car Tube unit saved from one of the other lines that has been cut back and have a 15 minute service on the rest of the line from Baker St alternating to Amersham/Watford with a 15 minute service to Uxbridge from Aldgate except during peaks . Piccadilly - No service beyond Rayner's Lane at all times . Victoria - would be left as is Waterloo - as is now peaks only M-F I think closing the Mill Hill East branch would be a bit severe but the rest sounds reasonable although I think the Victoria Line could be reduced a bit between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central.
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 6, 2021 18:26:23 GMT
Where do I start .... Central - Woodford/Hainault branch I would get rid off the staff at the stations inbetween (if there are any now) and run it in a similar fashion to the DLR and also run 20 mins frequency during peaks with maybe a half hourly through train at all other times no service after 22:00 M-S and no service Sundays , 15 min service beyond Northolt/Loughton/Newbury Park except during peaks . Circle/Hammersmith - I would leave alone works as is I think . Bakerloo - M-F only Every 10 mins with extra trains during peaks no service after 22:00 and no service beyond Stonebridge pk at all times ( Save on mileage on ageing rolling stock and save money not running weekends duplicated mainly through town with jubilee and Overground covers all of North section from Queens Park ) District - Edgware Rd service would stop at High St Ken at all times except peaks and Olympia branch would close at all times (Walk for Olympia and use Circle for Edgware Road). Jubilee - Terminate most trains at Wembley Pk and have a 10 min through train to Stanmore except during peaks . Northern - Mill Hill branch would close . Metropolitan - Run a 30 min shuttle between Chalfont & Chesham with a 4 car Tube unit saved from one of the other lines that has been cut back and have a 15 minute service on the rest of the line from Baker St alternating to Amersham/Watford with a 15 minute service to Uxbridge from Aldgate except during peaks . Piccadilly - No service beyond Rayner's Lane at all times . Victoria - would be left as is Waterloo - as is now peaks only M-F I would cut the Circle line and use the stock to add additional peak extras to the H&C line to Moorgate and on the District Line from Edgware Road to either Richmond or Wimbledon again at peaks.
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Post by Busboy105 on Dec 6, 2021 23:08:17 GMT
W&C Bakerloo north of Stonebridge Park, south of Paddington H&C or partial reduction Piccadilly west of Rayners Lane Chesham branch of Met line could be at risk but I wouldn't cut it, also Met line runs alongside the Chiltern Railway stopping at every station from Rickmansworth to Amersham, that could be at risk too? The Chiltern isn't as frequent as the Met I believe
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Post by Lukeo on Dec 7, 2021 14:53:49 GMT
Drivers are not the only thing to consider. London Overground uses mainline platforms at Euston - in fact, only 1 platform - and there’s already often a wait to get in to Euston in the mornings. Trying to force a quicker turnaround just means less opportunity to make up time, and could inevitably make the service worse. The trains themselves have poor dwell times too thanks to only having 2 sets of doors per carriage, and this will be at its worst at Euston, and even then all of this is assuming they could even fit the increased frequency around the many other Euston arrivals and departures. I would welcome the increased frequency on the line though, and do hope the service gets to every 10 mins one day, but it definitely cannot handle Harrow to Stonebridge/Queen’s by itself in rush hour. Can’t see the bakerloo line closing anyway, it’s almost certainly just a political stunt. Have they not just begun refurbishing the trains? I don't think TfL are no longer bothered whether they provide a proper service or not as we've seen with buses already - if it comes to light that closing the Bakerloo even partially represents a financial saving, they'll certainly explore it political stunt or not. Even if the trains have began refurbishment, stopping it now would still save them money in the long run - hopefully, it doesn't come to this but I'm not ruling out such a measure on the Bakerloo or even other lines. Realistically, only the busiest lines will likely be immune should any major cuts happen which would more or less be the other deep level lines. But I’m saying the London Overground line, particularly on the 17 min gaps between trains, will not physically be able to carry the number of passengers on the line during rush hour (potentially even at weekends/off peak but I don’t use it enough at those times to say). And London Northwestern services already struggle during the peaks too (not quite as bad as pre-covid yet, but getting close at certain times) so that won’t help much either. It just will not be able to operate safely with such overcrowding and so would be better to just shut the overground line too until/unless the overground frequency can be increased to at least every 8 mins (perhaps the overground could have alternating short journeys, operating between Harrow & Wealdstone and.. as close to Euston as possible).
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