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Post by vjaska on Dec 7, 2021 16:17:03 GMT
I don't think TfL are no longer bothered whether they provide a proper service or not as we've seen with buses already - if it comes to light that closing the Bakerloo even partially represents a financial saving, they'll certainly explore it political stunt or not. Even if the trains have began refurbishment, stopping it now would still save them money in the long run - hopefully, it doesn't come to this but I'm not ruling out such a measure on the Bakerloo or even other lines. Realistically, only the busiest lines will likely be immune should any major cuts happen which would more or less be the other deep level lines. But I’m saying the London Overground line, particularly on the 17 min gaps between trains, will not physically be able to carry the number of passengers on the line during rush hour (potentially even at weekends/off peak but I don’t use it enough at those times to say). And London Northwestern services already struggle during the peaks too (not quite as bad as pre-covid yet, but getting close at certain times) so that won’t help much either. It just will not be able to operate safely with such overcrowding and so would be better to just shut the overground line too until/unless the overground frequency can be increased to at least every 8 mins (perhaps the overground could have alternating short journeys, operating between Harrow & Wealdstone and.. as close to Euston as possible). Then maybe they’ll do that with the alternating short journeys idea - like I said, I really hope it doesn’t come to it especially as I’ve done the journey myself along that stretch so I know how important it is but the point I’m making is TfL no longer care be it because they don’t want to or can’t afford to depending on your viewpoint.
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Post by kmkcheng on Dec 7, 2021 17:54:49 GMT
But I’m saying the London Overground line, particularly on the 17 min gaps between trains, will not physically be able to carry the number of passengers on the line during rush hour (potentially even at weekends/off peak but I don’t use it enough at those times to say). And London Northwestern services already struggle during the peaks too (not quite as bad as pre-covid yet, but getting close at certain times) so that won’t help much either. It just will not be able to operate safely with such overcrowding and so would be better to just shut the overground line too until/unless the overground frequency can be increased to at least every 8 mins (perhaps the overground could have alternating short journeys, operating between Harrow & Wealdstone and.. as close to Euston as possible). Then maybe they’ll do that with the alternating short journeys idea - like I said, I really hope it doesn’t come to it especially as I’ve done the journey myself along that stretch so I know how important it is but the point I’m making is TfL no longer care be it because they don’t want to or can’t afford to depending on your viewpoint. If you were going to do alternating short journeys, I would keep the Bakerloo line just for that purpose if the rest of the line was to close, maybe running a 15 minute shuttle between Harrow & Wealdstone and Paddington. This would also prevent any conflicting movements if overground trains ran these short shuttles. A connection to zone 1 is maintained and one of the main objectives to sweep up all the passengers changing at Willesden Junction, the overground alone won’t cope with the number of passengers changing there
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 8, 2021 19:40:13 GMT
It's already been covered, but as TfL likes to cling to tradition, nothing will be done and everything will go into gradual decline. It all ties in with the new lockdown which will see even fewer passengers in the coming days
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Dec 11, 2021 10:51:21 GMT
I think we should try and let Central London recover, and as much as it'll pee some people off I do think we should be looking at outer sections of the tube for reductions before ferociously killing the inner sections of the tube as plenty of them have massive interchanges from bus to train such as Finsbury Park/Manor House on the Picadilly. I think it's going to be quite a while before Central London fully recovers, tourism returns etc, and I really don't think closing the Bakerloo south of Paddington and the W&C is going to cause that much hardship. Indeed, the Bakerloo largely covers the Jubilee & Northern Lines. Even Regents Park is very near Great Portland Street, and Lambeth North near both adjacent stations. Waterloo to Bank changing at London Bridge takes barely 10 minutes longer than the direct W&C connection.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 20:06:05 GMT
Why not close a few stations instead of lines: Chancery Lane (very close to Holborn) Covent Garden (as above) Edgware Road Bakerloo Barons Court (Piccadilly only, there is the District line at Hammersmith, plus Hammersmith is a bigger area) Gloucester Road (Piccadilly only, interchange with sub surface can happen at South Kensington which is a bigger area) Mansion House (very close to Cannon Street and Monument, plus has no interchange) Mornington Crescent Goodge Street Arsenal (except matchdays)
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 13, 2021 20:12:39 GMT
Why not close a few stations instead of lines: Chancery Lane (very close to Holborn) Covent Garden (as above) Edgware Road Bakerloo Barons Court (Piccadilly only, there is the District line at Hammersmith, plus Hammersmith is a bigger area) Gloucester Road (Piccadilly only, interchange with sub surface can happen at South Kensington which is a bigger area) Mansion House (very close to Cannon Street and Monument, plus has no interchange) Mornington Crescent Goodge Street Arsenal (except matchdays) Never really seen the point of Mornington Crescent as I've never seen anyone get on or off there particularly but closing Arsenal is ridiculous. Arsenal is a large residential area not close to the bus network and the amount of pressure placed on local services as a result would be too large (the 4, 19, 29, 43, 91, 253, 254, 259) esp as some of them have seen reductions.
Why on earth would you close Covent Garden? I think people are really getting too crayonista here. There's even a bloody sign telling people on the Picadilly Line to avoid getting off there because of how busy it is on weekends!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 20:19:23 GMT
Why not close a few stations instead of lines: Chancery Lane (very close to Holborn) Covent Garden (as above) Edgware Road Bakerloo Barons Court (Piccadilly only, there is the District line at Hammersmith, plus Hammersmith is a bigger area) Gloucester Road (Piccadilly only, interchange with sub surface can happen at South Kensington which is a bigger area) Mansion House (very close to Cannon Street and Monument, plus has no interchange) Mornington Crescent Goodge Street Arsenal (except matchdays) Never really seen the point of Mornington Crescent as I've never seen anyone get on or off there particularly but closing Arsenal is ridiculous. Arsenal is a large residential area not close to the bus network and the amount of pressure placed on local services as a result would be too large (the 4, 19, 29, 43, 91, 253, 254, 259) esp as some of them have seen reductions.
Why on earth would you close Covent Garden? I think people are really getting too crayonista here. There's even a bloody sign telling people on the Picadilly Line to avoid getting off there because of how busy it is on weekends!
Fair enough about Arsenal, I didn't know it was that residential. The reason I said Covent Garden is because its very close to stations like TCR and Holborn
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 13, 2021 20:19:30 GMT
Where do I start .... Central - Woodford/Hainault branch I would get rid off the staff at the stations inbetween (if there are any now) and run it in a similar fashion to the DLR and also run 20 mins frequency during peaks with maybe a half hourly through train at all other times no service after 22:00 M-S and no service Sundays , 15 min service beyond Northolt/Loughton/Newbury Park except during peaks . Circle/Hammersmith - I would leave alone works as is I think . Bakerloo - M-F only Every 10 mins with extra trains during peaks no service after 22:00 and no service beyond Stonebridge pk at all times ( Save on mileage on ageing rolling stock and save money not running weekends duplicated mainly through town with jubilee and Overground covers all of North section from Queens Park ) District - Edgware Rd service would stop at High St Ken at all times except peaks and Olympia branch would close at all times (Walk for Olympia and use Circle for Edgware Road). Jubilee - Terminate most trains at Wembley Pk and have a 10 min through train to Stanmore except during peaks . Northern - Mill Hill branch would close . Metropolitan - Run a 30 min shuttle between Chalfont & Chesham with a 4 car Tube unit saved from one of the other lines that has been cut back and have a 15 minute service on the rest of the line from Baker St alternating to Amersham/Watford with a 15 minute service to Uxbridge from Aldgate except during peaks . Piccadilly - No service beyond Rayner's Lane at all times . Victoria - would be left as is Waterloo - as is now peaks only M-F I think closing the Mill Hill East branch would be a bit severe but the rest sounds reasonable although I think the Victoria Line could be reduced a bit between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central. I know it's a week old post but I do wonder what our good friend snoggle would've had to say about the latter suggestion...personally I think that'd be really overkill culling the service along there because Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central stations can be extremely busy in the peaks.
I do wonder about the Mill Hill East branch, I think it's reasonably safe because if you wanted to reduce the High Barnet branch you could easily send a few down to MHE. The issue is however with the increased frequency on the Mill Hill East branch whether the 382 could be at risk. I don't want to be Mr Negative but certainly since the Millbrook Park extension loadings have definitely not boomed and I don't expect them to because I imagine Brent Cross is more popular than Finchley Central & Lido and also the links into the local Jewish Community seem to prove far more popular hence why the 240 hasn't been messed around with.
I do wonder whether the 382 might be cutback to Finchley Central with other local services mooted as alternatives (not suggesting it should happen but the section is certainly underused, especially when you compare it to what it looks like in Summers Lane/Victoria Park/Finchley Central/Arnos Grove Station/Friern Barnet).
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 13, 2021 20:21:21 GMT
Never really seen the point of Mornington Crescent as I've never seen anyone get on or off there particularly but closing Arsenal is ridiculous. Arsenal is a large residential area not close to the bus network and the amount of pressure placed on local services as a result would be too large (the 4, 19, 29, 43, 91, 253, 254, 259) esp as some of them have seen reductions.
Why on earth would you close Covent Garden? I think people are really getting too crayonista here. There's even a bloody sign telling people on the Picadilly Line to avoid getting off there because of how busy it is on weekends!
Fair enough about Arsenal, I didn't know it was that residential. The reason I said Covent Garden is because its very close to stations like TCR and Holborn Yes but Covent Garden is a busy station as is especially on weekends.
To me I think if stations do have to be closed there should be a proper review in place but as I say there are signs on the tube stating that punters should avoid C Garden within the peaks because of the amount of people using the stations, seems ironic you'd close a busy station, esp one that you tell people to stay away from because of how busy it gets.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 13, 2021 20:40:07 GMT
I think closing the Mill Hill East branch would be a bit severe but the rest sounds reasonable although I think the Victoria Line could be reduced a bit between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central. I know it's a week old post but I do wonder what our good friend snoggle would've had to say about the latter suggestion...personally I think that'd be really overkill culling the service along there because Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central stations can be extremely busy in the peaks.
I do wonder about the Mill Hill East branch, I think it's reasonably safe because if you wanted to reduce the High Barnet branch you could easily send a few down to MHE. The issue is however with the increased frequency on the Mill Hill East branch whether the 382 could be at risk. I don't want to be Mr Negative but certainly since the Millbrook Park extension loadings have definitely not boomed and I don't expect them to because I imagine Brent Cross is more popular than Finchley Central & Lido and also the links into the local Jewish Community seem to prove far more popular hence why the 240 hasn't been messed around with.
I do wonder whether the 382 might be cutback to Finchley Central with other local services mooted as alternatives (not suggesting it should happen but the section is certainly underused, especially when you compare it to what it looks like in Summers Lane/Victoria Park/Finchley Central/Arnos Grove Station/Friern Barnet).
I do think there's room for a slight reduction between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow, a lot of services seem more geared up towards operational convenience than passenger needs. Certainly better than closing the Mill Hill East branch of the Northern Line. Likewise I think the Piccadilly Line could be reduced a bit between Wood Green/Arnos Grove and Cockfosters.
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Post by COBO on Jan 27, 2022 7:55:42 GMT
Hainault shuttle - After watching Geoff Marshall’s the secrets of the Hainault shuttle I scrap the Central Line between Hainault and Woodstock Hill aka the Hainault shuttle.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 27, 2022 12:37:51 GMT
Hainault shuttle - After watching Geoff Marshall’s the secrets of the Hainault shuttle I scrap the Central Line between Hainault and Woodstock Hill aka the Hainault shuttle. Did you watch the video properly because it mentions the reason why there is a shuttle in the first place. Why on earth do you want to scrap that section of the Central Line?
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Post by TB123 on Jan 27, 2022 12:40:11 GMT
Hainault shuttle - After watching Geoff Marshall’s the secrets of the Hainault shuttle I scrap the Central Line between Hainault and Woodstock Hill aka the Hainault shuttle. Did you watch the video properly because it mentions the reason why there is a shuttle in the first place. Why on earth do you want to scrap that section of the Central Line? Because he needs to boost his post count.
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Post by TB123 on Jan 27, 2022 12:40:59 GMT
I'd close none. Instead I'd get rid of Boris Johnson and Grant Shapps from their respective roles and replace them with people who recognise the importance of London as our capital city and the need to support it's public services and infrastructure to support the entire UK economy.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 27, 2022 12:56:13 GMT
Did you watch the video properly because it mentions the reason why there is a shuttle in the first place. Why on earth do you want to scrap that section of the Central Line? Because he needs to boost his post count. He wouldn't be the only one guilty of that. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable suggestion even though I don't think it should close, but if the money runs out........?
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