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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 3, 2022 17:44:24 GMT
I hate how they removed the 179 from Barking In some ways something had to give Ilford Lane is hell on occasions so maybe the 179 was the best route to remove or should it have been the 169? I think the argument in the end was the 179 being kept would have meant no route from Ilford Lane would have made it to Ilford Town centre, and Barking would only have the 366. It was a catch 22 in the end, one of them had to go. Although the hindsight not is that when the EL2 was diverted the 179 could have been sent back, but the decision was taken to increase the EL1 frequency instead. |
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 3, 2022 18:09:34 GMT
And yet ... if you didn't have a car at all, you would still be able to do all that. Personally I might rearrange things a bit (have something to eat whilst at Westfield perhaps, or buy something to cook/heat up at home), but all of what you want to do would be perfectly achievable if you didn't have a car. However that has meant I have had to make sacrifices due to an inept public transport network when my car gives me far more freedoms. Why should I work my life around public transport when really to get people onto public transport it should be the other way around. I do not plan to curb my life to work around using a bus and other modes of public transport and I doubt anyone else that already owns are car would voluntarily do so either. I'm paying for it so why can't I use it, even if it ends up working out cheaper. No, I said if you didn't have a car at all - clearly you do, and you feel that you need to own one. However many people would still prefer not to own a car at all. I lived in London for over 50 years and I did not have a car, or access to one, for most of that time. I didn't feel my life was "curbed". |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 3, 2022 18:11:30 GMT
I disagree with this, owning a car has been a lot easier than needing to fiddle around with public transport. Even with the congestion charge changes it's clear TfL have realised that making car travel into London difficult just stops people altogether rather than promoting public transport usage. The weekend restrictions are clearly aimed at getting people to drive into London before it kicks in and then leave after it's no longer applicable. I need to go to Westfield in a bit and hopefully get dinner on the way home, my options are walk to the 238 in the cold (or take a 62), the 62 and 238 are both every 15 minutes today. The other option is walk in the cold to the 262 which takes me around 10 minutes and that is also every 15 minutes. I can time myself leaving for the 62 so let's say wait time there is negligible. Worst case I could end up waiting 15 minutes in the cold for the 238, upon arrival at Stratford I'll need to walk over the bridge and into the shopping centre before coming out again and potentially waiting another 15 minutes for the 262 or 238. Worst case scenario again I end up waiting 15 minutes for both to turn up together. If I were to get a 262 I go to East Beckton and stop off at McDonald's to get some food. Bringing the food home is not an option on foot as the 10min walk in the cold will make my food cold, the other option being get off at Beckton Asda for the McDonald's there and get a 173 straight home, of which the 173 itself is also every 15 minutes today which could mean another 15 minute wait, whether this be in McDonald's or out in the cold, I'll be waiting and wasting time regardless. I'm not going to be able to do all of this in an hour, assuming two hours I've spent £3.10, could potentially be £4.65 if one of my bus wait times pushes me above the third hour. The flip side here is I get into my car, pelt it up the A406 and A12, most of which is in 5th gear so fuel burn is minimal. Looking on Google maps there's not any traffic that will slow me down. I go to Car Park B in Westfield which means I don't even have to go outside into the cold at any point, I don't need to spend too long in there so will make the £3 parking charge. On the way home I again use the A12 and A406 back, stopping off at the East Beckton McDonald's drive thru which is about a minute or two drive from my house. I can bring my food home nice and warm and have probably spent a lot less than I would have on the bus. I can't see where during all of that public transport will have been easier for me. The car in this case has saved me money being the cheaper option. The heating in my car keeps me warm and as that predominantly uses engine heat it doesn't cause additional fuel burn. I haven't waited for a bus at any point during this and have made all the calls of where I want to be when I want to be there. I've not been at the mercy of buses or regulation. Until this issue gets sorted out it's no surprise people use cars. And yet ... if you didn't have a car at all, you would still be able to do all that. Personally I might rearrange things a bit (have something to eat whilst at Westfield perhaps, or buy something to cook/heat up at home), but all of what you want to do would be perfectly achievable if you didn't have a car. I agree. As a person who doesn't drive, in the OP's situation, I would get the 173/262 there, most certainly in a Hopper. Then I'd get the 238 back and walk home, getting a ready meal on the way back. Or do it when c2c serves Stratford, like on NYE or on a Saturday. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 3, 2022 18:20:28 GMT
And yet ... if you didn't have a car at all, you would still be able to do all that. Personally I might rearrange things a bit (have something to eat whilst at Westfield perhaps, or buy something to cook/heat up at home), but all of what you want to do would be perfectly achievable if you didn't have a car. However that has meant I have had to make sacrifices due to an inept public transport network when my car gives me far more freedoms. Why should I work my life around public transport when really to get people onto public transport it should be the other way around. I do not plan to curb my life to work around using a bus and other modes of public transport and I doubt anyone else that already owns are car would voluntarily do so either. I'm paying for it so why can't I use it, even if it ends up working out cheaper. Don't forget, instantaneously, it may be cheaper to drive instead of getting the bus, but it does cost a lot to run a car including MOT's, road tax, insurance, fuel and repairs. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2022 18:21:16 GMT
And yet ... if you didn't have a car at all, you would still be able to do all that. Personally I might rearrange things a bit (have something to eat whilst at Westfield perhaps, or buy something to cook/heat up at home), but all of what you want to do would be perfectly achievable if you didn't have a car. I agree. As a person who doesn't drive, in the OP's situation, I would get the 173/262 there, most certainly in a Hopper. Then I'd get the 238 back and walk home, getting a ready meal on the way back. Or do it when c2c serves Stratford, like on NYE or on a Saturday. I can relate to Eastlondoner62 and I live on the other side of London. Whether you want to admit it or not some journeys are just better done by car and in some cases such as with Friern Barnet Retail Park some people just prefer to drive. Some areas have very little transport provision such as Hampstead. I'm afraid living near a dual carriageway means that likely if there's not decent enough transport provision people will drive. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2022 18:22:51 GMT
However that has meant I have had to make sacrifices due to an inept public transport network when my car gives me far more freedoms. Why should I work my life around public transport when really to get people onto public transport it should be the other way around. I do not plan to curb my life to work around using a bus and other modes of public transport and I doubt anyone else that already owns are car would voluntarily do so either. I'm paying for it so why can't I use it, even if it ends up working out cheaper. Don't forget, instantaneously, it may be cheaper to drive instead of getting the bus, but it does cost a lot to run a car including MOT's, road tax, insurance, fuel and repairs. Some people are willing to make that compromise including myself and personally I try and do as many journeys by public transport as possible but waiting gets tiresome after a while in some cases with some journeys.
It's not exactly helped with some unattractive frequencies that clearly do not match demand such as the 143, 382, C11 etc and some links aren't good enough for some people.
It also does not help that some routes are too slow, more namely the 102, 125, 210, 263, which TFL have either padded to excess or in the case of the 102 and 210 because of 20mph speed limits.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 3, 2022 18:27:50 GMT
However that has meant I have had to make sacrifices due to an inept public transport network when my car gives me far more freedoms. Why should I work my life around public transport when really to get people onto public transport it should be the other way around. I do not plan to curb my life to work around using a bus and other modes of public transport and I doubt anyone else that already owns are car would voluntarily do so either. I'm paying for it so why can't I use it, even if it ends up working out cheaper. No, I said if you didn't have a car at all - clearly you do, and you feel that you need to own one. However many people would still prefer not to own a car at all. I lived in London for over 50 years and I did not have a car, or access to one, for most of that time. I didn't feel my life was "curbed". I most certainly wouldn't say my life is ''curbed'' without a car as well. I, myself, have the really nifty North London line for all my shopping needs. Fares are good and it takes me to whatever shop is the flavour of the day. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 3, 2022 18:31:09 GMT
I agree. As a person who doesn't drive, in the OP's situation, I would get the 173/262 there, most certainly in a Hopper. Then I'd get the 238 back and walk home, getting a ready meal on the way back. Or do it when c2c serves Stratford, like on NYE or on a Saturday. I can relate to Eastlondoner62 and I live on the other side of London. Whether you want to admit it or not some journeys are just better done by car and in some cases such as with Friern Barnet Retail Park some people just prefer to drive. Some areas have very little transport provision such as Hampstead. I'm afraid living near a dual carriageway means that likely if there's not decent enough transport provision people will drive. I can really see that and there are many journeys better done by car and I'm not disputing that, but all I'm saying is there is always a way around in London. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 3, 2022 18:31:31 GMT
No, I said if you didn't have a car at all - clearly you do, and you feel that you need to own one. However many people would still prefer not to own a car at all. I lived in London for over 50 years and I did not have a car, or access to one, for most of that time. I didn't feel my life was "curbed". I most certainly wouldn't say my life is ''curbed'' without a car as well. I, myself, have the really nifty North London line for all my shopping needs. Fares are good and it takes me to whatever shop is the flavour of the day. It's interesting you bring up the North London Line because interchange between lines like the Northern Line is not great along the North London Section. It unfortunately misses out interchange on numerous occasions (Camden Road, K Town West, Walthamstow Queens Road, S Tottenham) whereas ideally it would be good to provide interchange between Camden Town, Kentish Town, W Central, Seven Sisters.
In the case of KTW & Camden Road especially there is not adequate enough parking either so for those heading west it's a bit inconvenient.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 3, 2022 18:33:24 GMT
I agree. As a person who doesn't drive, in the OP's situation, I would get the 173/262 there, most certainly in a Hopper. Then I'd get the 238 back and walk home, getting a ready meal on the way back. Or do it when c2c serves Stratford, like on NYE or on a Saturday. I can relate to Eastlondoner62 and I live on the other side of London. Whether you want to admit it or not some journeys are just better done by car and in some cases such as with Friern Barnet Retail Park some people just prefer to drive. Some areas have very little transport provision such as Hampstead. I'm afraid living near a dual carriageway means that likely if there's not decent enough transport provision people will drive. Some journeys are indeed better done by car (assuming you have access to one of course). Although in a less car-oriented society fewer places like Friern Barnet Retail Park, the Gallions/Beckton retail parks and drive-through McDonalds/KFCs would exist. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 3, 2022 18:40:12 GMT
I most certainly wouldn't say my life is ''curbed'' without a car as well. I, myself, have the really nifty North London line for all my shopping needs. Fares are good and it takes me to whatever shop is the flavour of the day. It's interesting you bring up the North London Line because interchange between lines like the Northern Line is not great along the North London Section. It unfortunately misses out interchange on numerous occasions (Camden Road, K Town West, Walthamstow Queens Road, S Tottenham) whereas ideally it would be good to provide interchange between Camden Town, Kentish Town, W Central, Seven Sisters.
In the case of KTW & Camden Road especially there is not adequate enough parking either so for those heading west it's a bit inconvenient.
I agree but my use is more for the shops around the stations. Working my way west there's Stratford where there's loads of places to go to, some shops clustered around Hackney Central, Dalston Kingsland and Caledonian Road & Barnsbury. The Hampstead stations are great for a long walk and Acton Central has a great high street. |
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Post by WH241 on Jan 3, 2022 18:45:41 GMT
And yet ... if you didn't have a car at all, you would still be able to do all that. Personally I might rearrange things a bit (have something to eat whilst at Westfield perhaps, or buy something to cook/heat up at home), but all of what you want to do would be perfectly achievable if you didn't have a car. I agree. As a person who doesn't drive, in the OP's situation, I would get the 173/262 there, most certainly in a Hopper. Then I'd get the 238 back and walk home, getting a ready meal on the way back. Or do it when c2c serves Stratford, like on NYE or on a Saturday. But you are not in the OP’s situation as you can’t drive. You are telling him he should use public transport over his car when it’s his choice. I posted earlier about my trips today should I have used buses too? Dream on if I’m waiting around on a cold afternoon when my car is outside my house. The pandemic really changed my views of public transport and have used buses less than 30 times in two years. I use trains as I find them pretty reliable and quick. |
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Post by greenboy on Jan 3, 2022 19:16:49 GMT
I don't see anything changing there and I think these consultations are generally an unnecessary level of bureaucracy. The Croydon/Sutton one attracted less than 1,000 responses which suggests that most people either aren't aware of them or they're just not interested. It's a bit like a local by-election with a 1% turn out. For the amount of effort that went in 1000 responses is pretty measly. That's what I thought, I've got family in Croydon who sometimes use buses and they weren't aware of the proposals or consultation. When I told them the details they weren't greatly bothered and admitted that they wouldn't have replied to the consultation anyway although one did say that they thought the 443 was a bit of an odd one. And these proposals came out over a year ago and as far as I'm aware a date has still not been confirmed for their implementation. |
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Post by Green Kitten on Jan 3, 2022 19:44:31 GMT
I’m used to a life without cars. Living in Potters Bar my dad nine times out of ten would refuse to drop me off at Cockfosters or High Barnet. It was always a walk then a 84/298. Sainsbury’s? No way, get your lazy arse out of the house and walk there. (20 min walk) Even now, though I have a driving license I’m just too dang used to walking/public transport everywhere. I’m not scared of bugs on buses and never was so nothing changed. Cold outside? Meh it is what it is. I love to drive but car ownership is not an expense I’m willing to spend at this point. Especially with ULEZ and all that. Although in a less car-oriented society fewer places like Friern Barnet Retail Park, the Gallions/Beckton retail parks and drive-through McDonalds/KFCs would exist. This just reminded me of time when I returned a faulty bed frame to Dunelm, three trips it took from Bounds Green to the store 😂🤦🏽♂️ |
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Post by MKAY315 on Jan 3, 2022 19:54:26 GMT
In some ways something had to give Ilford Lane is hell on occasions so maybe the 179 was the best route to remove or should it have been the 169? I think the argument in the end was the 179 being kept would have meant no route from Ilford Lane would have made it to Ilford Town centre, and Barking would only have the 366. It was a catch 22 in the end, one of them had to go. Although the hindsight not is that when the EL2 was diverted the 179 could have been sent back, but the decision was taken to increase the EL1 frequency instead. Not to mention WH241 if the 169 was cut back. The only way it could terminate at Ilford is if it went to Roden Street. I personally would have preferred that as the 179 was the only non terminating route in Ilford that went to Gants Hill and didn't pass through the library after the station. |
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