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Post by uakari on Mar 28, 2023 20:45:08 GMT
Looking at road structure X16 from Edgware- Marble Arch/ Victoria X13 Barnet to Victoria/Marble Arch You could also do something with the 113 corridor as that is relatively straight, and connect it with the 112 part of the NCR. Willesden/Neasden - Edgware/ Barnet via the NCR and Watford way. Even something with A40 or Great West Road could have an express route linking Heathrow or Hounslow to somewhere central. There are alot of roads that could facilitate an xpress route if needed. And this compounded with bus priority would be a powerful way in increasing bus speeds and journey times. An X13 might be okay although I'd worry about overbussing the Golders Green to Barnet section, especially north of North Finchley. Perhaps if you wished to achieve something semi-similar you could extend the 460 to Barnet Church, although TFL might deem the A1000 overbussed with the 125 from Finchley Central & the 263 from Barnet to North Finchley? I suspect that's why there is no GG to Barnet link. If X13 was Potters Bar to Barnet Everyman all stops then limited stop via 263 to NF then 13 that would work better. |
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Post by gwiwer on Mar 28, 2023 20:53:48 GMT
X26 has been losing passengers and was being looked at for other reasons than enhancement until recently. x15 or x20 will make it a more attractive option for many journeys and a matching slight reduction in the 285 can provide some resources. Much of the rest of the former 725 Green Line is now planned for revival; it was originally withdrawn (by London Country) as uneconomic and more prone to traffic delays than the western half. 20mph road speeds with a resultant reduction in average bus speeds will not have helped.
I wonder if, in the planning of all these new routes, any though has been given to returning the major road network to 30mph consistently across the London Boroughs. Currently the inconsistency is causing a lot of headaches, delays and probably some avoidable speeding fines as well.
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 28, 2023 21:06:17 GMT
X26 has been losing passengers and was being looked at for other reasons than enhancement until recently. x15 or x20 will make it a more attractive option for many journeys and a matching slight reduction in the 285 can provide some resources. Much of the rest of the former 725 Green Line is now planned for revival; it was originally withdrawn (by London Country) as uneconomic and more prone to traffic delays than the western half. 20mph road speeds with a resultant reduction in average bus speeds will not have helped. I wonder if, in the planning of all these new routes, any though has been given to returning the major road network to 30mph consistently across the London Boroughs. Currently the inconsistency is causing a lot of headaches, delays and probably some avoidable speeding fines as well. Whilst the x26 is still down, according to TfLs official passenger number figures, that is easily explained by ongoing problems at Heathrow and other factors. Recovering 600,000 passengers post covid is good and every x26 I see are often busy. As for speed limits TfL can only control those on roads it manages, councils control all other roads. |
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Mar 28, 2023 21:08:29 GMT
It’s also by definition should be considered limited stop and not express. it is still not a stopping service though It stops at limited intervals, and it has too many stops to be classed as express |
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Post by buspete on Mar 28, 2023 21:10:37 GMT
So where to start?
The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route.
So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused!
With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route.
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Post by northlondon83 on Mar 28, 2023 21:18:37 GMT
Some of these won't work especially in North and East London due to using the North Circular
The X26 I assume doesn't have much traffic hotspots, ik assuming around Worcester Park and not much else?
It would be better to have it run further out of London like:
Harrow to Barnet via Edgware
Barnet to Chingford via Enfield
Chingford to Romford via Barkingside
Romford to Rainham (not sure what route, not familiar with the area)
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Post by WH241 on Mar 28, 2023 21:21:33 GMT
It’s been such a busy day here across various threads so I have lost track re the X26. Is it definitely doubling in frequency before the tender renewal in 2024?
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 28, 2023 21:24:58 GMT
Several thoughts on the proposals:
With the X183, I think an orbital route across NW London would be very useful, but I don't think this is the best routeing. The map suggests it will follow the 683 to Kingsbury, then continuing via Northwick Park to Harrow. The main purpose of this new network is to link together key town centres in outer London - Harrow and North Finchley are both useful destinations and interchanges, but the route misses out on other key locations in between. Ideally it should be diverted slightly to the north or south, to serve interchanges at either Edgware or Brent Cross.
In East London, I'm not sure Royal Docks is the best terminus, and I think should instead terminate more directly at North Woolwich. This could introduce some useful new links from Ilford and Barking to the ferry across to Woolwich. You could then have another express route connecting at the other side of the river. Maybe have the SE London service go from Woolwich to Croydon, via Eltham and Bromley (also connecting to the X239 at Grove Park).
I also wonder if some other existing routes - with regular stopping patterns, but operating mostly along fast roads - could also be added to this Superloop brand, such as the 113?
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Post by vjaska on Mar 28, 2023 21:33:36 GMT
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 28, 2023 21:49:37 GMT
I'm giving my take on this on the East London variant anyway.
The Royal Docks to Walthamstow route can go either very well or very poorly. It's all going to come down to the route it's taking. The general assumption is the A406 will be the route but we can't be for certain until we see any official map, which could be a few years away. Judging by the Elizabeth Line symbol, the term 'Royal docks' either means Custom House or North Woolwich. The presence of a river roundel confuses me, Custom House isn't near the river so it could be North Woolwich instead, which is walking distance from Woolwich Elizabeth Line Station.
Assuming it's Custom House, the route will need to get to Ilford. There's two ways to do this, following the 474 route to Gallions Reach and then bombing it up the North Circular, it'll probably be relatively easy to put a stop at Barking Tesco but as mentioned a few pages back getting this done at Ilford will be total manic due to that road layout if it needs to double run and pick the North Circular up again. A way around this would be to stop at Ilford Hill, then follow the 123 the rest of the way. There is the additional option of coming off at Barking and following the 169 to Ilford in order to stop in Barking Town Centre, which looking at articles the main intention is to stop at Town Centres.
The other alternative route would be to follow the 147 to Ilford from Custom House, then follow the 123. Whether Custom House needs *another* link to East Ham is another topic entirely though. But that said the 147 would be a very off route to try to run a parallel express service to due to the tight roads it serves.
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Post by twobellstogo on Mar 28, 2023 21:57:25 GMT
So where to start? The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route. So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused! With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘X269’ runs fast from Bexleyheath to Sidcup. Bexleyheath, three stops in Sidcup (station, town, hospital), two in Chislehurst (War Memorial, station) and whatever is needed in Bromley town centre would be plenty, though as I’ve said above, I’d rather like this to then go on to Croydon. |
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Post by Busboy105 on Mar 28, 2023 22:31:59 GMT
How many more routes does North Finchley need? Why do they think that's where North London ends? Why not Harrow to Enfield via Barnet? And crossrail 2 only going as far as New Southgate. It's so weird. And nothing about cross boundary routes and reducing walking distances, which would be what would actually ameliorate the effects of ULEZ Harrow to Enfield might be a little bit too far. Maybe Edgware to Enfield? And even then i don't believe there's another space for an extra route at Enfield |
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Post by londonbuses on Mar 28, 2023 22:36:08 GMT
How many more routes does North Finchley need? Why do they think that's where North London ends? Why not Harrow to Enfield via Barnet? And crossrail 2 only going as far as New Southgate. It's so weird. And nothing about cross boundary routes and reducing walking distances, which would be what would actually ameliorate the effects of ULEZ Harrow to Enfield might be a little bit too far. Maybe Edgware to Enfield? And even then i don't believe there's another space for an extra route at Enfield I've always thought something from Edgware to Chingford via Barnet, Oakwood, Enfield and Ponders End would work quite well. An X140 extension to Edgware could work well to connect to this. |
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 29, 2023 7:43:32 GMT
I was looking back at the last tender result and the X26 was £2,747.000 a year. That would be nearly half the £6m budget TFL have set out this year. The £6m is additional spending, it doesn't include what is already being spent on the four routes. And to some extent that will be offset by extra revenue from fares. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Mar 29, 2023 7:51:03 GMT
I was looking back at the last tender result and the X26 was £2,747.000 a year. That would be nearly half the £6m budget TFL have set out this year. The £6m is additional spending, it doesn't include what is already being spent on the four routes. And to some extent that will be offset by extra revenue from fares. Am wondering how much will be saved by frequency reductions on parallel routes! |
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