|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Mar 29, 2023 9:10:28 GMT
I was looking back at the last tender result and the X26 was £2,747.000 a year. That would be nearly half the £6m budget TFL have set out this year. The £6m is additional spending, it doesn't include what is already being spent on the four routes. And to some extent that will be offset by extra revenue from fares. A The extra on the X26 will probably come out of the £6m. |
|
|
|
Post by northlondon83 on Mar 29, 2023 10:14:41 GMT
Something I think that was misses out is an express Uxbridge to Harrow link. This would run parallel to the Metropolitan line then to North Harrow and the 183 to Harrow. Alternatively it could run via the U1 to Ruislip, H13 to Eastcote Village, Cuckoo Hill, Pinner Tesco, 183 to Harrow.
Or possibly Uxbridge to Edgware via my previous proposal to Pinner Tesco, then the H12 to Stanmore (bar the diversion via Harrow Weald High Street), then to Edgware via the 142. This could connect to a Edgware to Chingford service
|
|
|
|
Post by TB123 on Mar 29, 2023 10:21:48 GMT
Something I think that was misses out is an express Uxbridge to Harrow link. This would run parallel to the Metropolitan line then to North Harrow and the 183 to Harrow. Alternatively it could run via the U1 to Ruislip, H13 to Eastcote Village, Cuckoo Hill, Pinner Tesco, 183 to Harrow. Or possibly Uxbridge to Edgware via my previous proposal to Pinner Tesco, then the H12 to Stanmore (bar the diversion via Harrow Weald High Street), then to Edgware via the 142. This could connect to a Edgware to Chingford service You've even mentioned the pre-existing Uxbridge to Harrow express link - the Metropolitan line. Express buses work on orbital corridors where there isn't, or isn't good, rail-based connections. Pointless to duplicate. |
|
|
|
Post by mondraker275 on Mar 29, 2023 10:25:04 GMT
I'm giving my take on this on the East London variant anyway. The Royal Docks to Walthamstow route can go either very well or very poorly. It's all going to come down to the route it's taking. The general assumption is the A406 will be the route but we can't be for certain until we see any official map, which could be a few years away. Judging by the Elizabeth Line symbol, the term 'Royal docks' either means Custom House or North Woolwich. The presence of a river roundel confuses me, Custom House isn't near the river so it could be North Woolwich instead, which is walking distance from Woolwich Elizabeth Line Station. Assuming it's Custom House, the route will need to get to Ilford. There's two ways to do this, following the 474 route to Gallions Reach and then bombing it up the North Circular, it'll probably be relatively easy to put a stop at Barking Tesco but as mentioned a few pages back getting this done at Ilford will be total manic due to that road layout if it needs to double run and pick the North Circular up again. A way around this would be to stop at Ilford Hill, then follow the 123 the rest of the way. There is the additional option of coming off at Barking and following the 169 to Ilford in order to stop in Barking Town Centre, which looking at articles the main intention is to stop at Town Centres. The other alternative route would be to follow the 147 to Ilford from Custom House, then follow the 123. Whether Custom House needs *another* link to East Ham is another topic entirely though. But that said the 147 would be a very off route to try to run a parallel express service to due to the tight roads it serves. Surely not via the 147. Based on the 129 and the Silvertown consultation, which was published yesterday, it could be Custom House as with the tunnel, North Greenwich pier is close enough. Although they would have advertised the Cable Car image and they would take any chance to do that. The housing developments make it likely it is Custom House rather than North Woolwich. If the 129 and this bus comes in, I suspect that the 473 could be in line for the chop here. |
|
|
|
Post by rift on Mar 29, 2023 11:02:00 GMT
So where to start? The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route. So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused! With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘X269’ runs fast from Bexleyheath to Sidcup. Bexleyheath, three stops in Sidcup (station, town, hospital), two in Chislehurst (War Memorial, station) and whatever is needed in Bromley town centre would be plenty, though as I’ve said above, I’d rather like this to then go on to Croydon. I don’t think it will be fast from Bexleyheath to Sidcup, but rather run along the 229 LOR to Frognal Corner with a stop at Bexley station, then all stops to Queen Mary’s, then your X269 predicton, but also stopping at Bickley station, then from Widmore Road, stopping at all stops to Bromley North. |
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Mar 29, 2023 11:50:18 GMT
So where to start? The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route. So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused! With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route. Now I’m not local to area, but make take on it looking at stats, my times on the route and remarks from locals is that the 269 has a lot of untapped and unused potential. It generally seems to be a very quiet route outside of school times but provides some very valuable links. So maybe reducing the frequency of the actual 269 to give a rapid valuable link that’ll be well used, probably won’t be a bad thing. Anyone local is happy to correct me though |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 29, 2023 12:04:10 GMT
So where to start? The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route. So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused! With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route. Now I’m not local to area, but make take on it looking at stats, my times on the route and remarks from locals is that the 269 has a lot of untapped and unused potential. It generally seems to be a very quiet route outside of school times but provides some very valuable links. So maybe reducing the frequency of the actual 269 to give a rapid valuable link that’ll be well used, probably won’t be a bad thing. Anyone local is happy to correct me though Not a local but for me in general, it depends on the structure of the ‘X269’ or any of these new routes - for example, if the structure follows the structure of the current X26 (proper express type service) and the current 269 sees a negative frequency change or something even worse, then it could do the opposite and harm the current route |
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Mar 29, 2023 12:46:48 GMT
So where to start? The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route. So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused! With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route. Now I’m not local to area, but make take on it looking at stats, my times on the route and remarks from locals is that the 269 has a lot of untapped and unused potential. It generally seems to be a very quiet route outside of school times but provides some very valuable links. So maybe reducing the frequency of the actual 269 to give a rapid valuable link that’ll be well used, probably won’t be a bad thing. Anyone local is happy to correct me though If an X269 was introduced it would be pretty useful as it is mainly a commuters route. From my experience doing the 269 many people use this route for longer journeys and higher numbers of passengers board and alight at Key Bus Stops. If the 269 became a low frequency route to every 15 minutes then it would not be much of a loss if assisted by the X269 running 7 minutes apart both 15 minute services. Example Bromley North Chilslehurst War Memorial QMH Carlton Road Sidcup Station Bexley Library BXSC and personally I would extend it to Croydon or Woolwich. |
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Mar 29, 2023 12:50:02 GMT
So where to start? The link from Bromley North to Bexleyheath is actually as you all know on here is the existing 269. So what are they going to just rebrand the 269 similar to what East Midland trains did to an existing train route from St Pancras to Corby and give it bells and whistles as the Luton Express where it is just a cosmetic rebrand in reality of an existing train route. So say TFL introduce a X269 which sounds good, but do they cut the frequency on the 269 or replace it all together, which would be no improvement if you don’t live near a X269 bus stop, but you did live near a 269 stop, so hence you will still need the 269. So you keep the 269 at it’s current frequencies, if you are going to have the X269 to make it worthwhile it needs to be at least 4 buses per hour, which would mean the 269/X269 is over bused! With the X269 and X26 you have the majority of the old Green Line 726 bus route. Now I’m not local to area, but make take on it looking at stats, my times on the route and remarks from locals is that the 269 has a lot of untapped and unused potential. It generally seems to be a very quiet route outside of school times but provides some very valuable links. So maybe reducing the frequency of the actual 269 to give a rapid valuable link that’ll be well used, probably won’t be a bad thing. Anyone local is happy to correct me though I think the 269 is probably fine as it is, even better if it served more of Bromley town centre, although potentially the old 726 could be revived between Bromley and Dartford and onto DVH, Bluewater and possibly Ebbsfleet International with the 269 maybe reduced to 4bph off peak. |
|
va59
Conductor
Posts: 145 
|
Post by va59 on Mar 29, 2023 12:50:40 GMT
Anyone getting the old D1 route vibes of branding?
|
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 29, 2023 13:28:35 GMT
Now I’m not local to area, but make take on it looking at stats, my times on the route and remarks from locals is that the 269 has a lot of untapped and unused potential. It generally seems to be a very quiet route outside of school times but provides some very valuable links. So maybe reducing the frequency of the actual 269 to give a rapid valuable link that’ll be well used, probably won’t be a bad thing. Anyone local is happy to correct me though If an X269 was introduced it would be pretty useful as it is mainly a commuters route. From my experience doing the 269 many people use this route for longer journeys and higher numbers of passengers board and alight at Key Bus Stops. If the 269 became a low frequency route to every 15 minutes then it would not be much of a loss if assisted by the X269 running 7 minutes apart both 15 minute services. Example Bromley North Chilslehurst War Memorial QMH Carlton Road Sidcup Station Bexley Library BXSC and personally I would extend it to Croydon or Woolwich. And here comes the issue I was referring to - what happens to those who don't require one of those stops you've listed on their journey? They end up with a worse service because they now have a 15 minute service to rely on and may actually end up looking for an alternative like Uber for example, that as a consequence, also bypasses using the express route. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 29, 2023 13:34:25 GMT
Anyone getting the old D1 route vibes of branding? It's funny you say this - one of the people who attended the event said that the livery and branding is just a conception at this point and that the livery could apparently end up looking more like the one found on the 607 Volvo Olympians back in the day, which from memory, was identical to the livery on the D1 T's & NV's |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Mar 29, 2023 13:36:59 GMT
I know it will sound cynical but can’t help but think no thought went into the routes apart from the fact they form a loop.
I wonder if we would have ended up with better routes if the branding wasn’t so focused on the loop.
|
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Mar 29, 2023 13:48:38 GMT
If an X269 was introduced it would be pretty useful as it is mainly a commuters route. From my experience doing the 269 many people use this route for longer journeys and higher numbers of passengers board and alight at Key Bus Stops. If the 269 became a low frequency route to every 15 minutes then it would not be much of a loss if assisted by the X269 running 7 minutes apart both 15 minute services. Example Bromley North Chilslehurst War Memorial QMH Carlton Road Sidcup Station Bexley Library BXSC and personally I would extend it to Croydon or Woolwich. And here comes the issue I was referring to - what happens to those who don't require one of those stops you've listed on their journey? They end up with a worse service because they now have a 15 minute service to rely on and may actually end up looking for an alternative like Uber for example, that as a consequence, also bypasses using the express route. Especially if the routes are like the X26 which can go miles without stopping. If like the 607 then it's not so bad as when I travel on the routes it generally seems like it skips every 3 to 4 207/427 stops. Whereas the X26 can be atleast 2 miles between Worcester Park and New Malden and another 2 miles atleats to Kingston etc. |
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Mar 29, 2023 13:54:02 GMT
If an X269 was introduced it would be pretty useful as it is mainly a commuters route. From my experience doing the 269 many people use this route for longer journeys and higher numbers of passengers board and alight at Key Bus Stops. If the 269 became a low frequency route to every 15 minutes then it would not be much of a loss if assisted by the X269 running 7 minutes apart both 15 minute services. Example Bromley North Chilslehurst War Memorial QMH Carlton Road Sidcup Station Bexley Library BXSC and personally I would extend it to Croydon or Woolwich. And here comes the issue I was referring to - what happens to those who don't require one of those stops you've listed on their journey? They end up with a worse service because they now have a 15 minute service to rely on and may actually end up looking for an alternative like Uber for example, that as a consequence, also bypasses using the express route. You always mention this in relation to any route to be fair. The way passengers travel on buses has changed a lot and the way I see it TFL are actually attempting to try newer things. The route would still exist but probably at a lower frequency in addition the fact it is now being trimmed to Bexleyheath Library I would expect if this X269 is introduced it to become Low Frequency. The route is very quiet off peak and waiting an extra 3 minutes is not an issue it was over bussed when it ran every 10 if it was reduced to every 30 minutes then something can be said. In fact the evening service of every 20 minutes should become every 30 as it is very quiet. The 229 on the other hand even though it has nothing to do with this is a very busy service stopping at pretty much every stop the 269 is not. The 211 has been mentioned a few times too. It certainly does need to link Battersea Power Station. |
|
