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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 23, 2022 11:32:58 GMT
I'm a regular user of the Thameslink trains. They provide a useful service for a lot of people and numbers travelling are increasing. You see a lot of people changing to main line trains at King's Cross and St Pancras as well as Luton Airport travellers. Rainham was chosen because it has a spare platform and the journey time balances with shift patterns. I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. In my opinion, Thameslink should only serve routes where they operate a substantial amount of the services. Reverting the Rainham service back to Southeastern would give a more standardised service pattern into Central London, with Thameslink maybe taking on another route via South London, for example Reigate. The role of a cross-London service from the Dartford area would also be better provided by an extension to the Elizbeth Line (as an east-west service), and maybe just as far as Ebbsfleet with Southeastern's HS1 services available for further stations. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2022 12:11:18 GMT
I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. In my opinion, Thameslink should only serve routes where they operate a substantial amount of the services. Reverting the Rainham service back to Southeastern would give a more standardised service pattern into Central London, with Thameslink maybe taking on another route via South London, for example Reigate. The role of a cross-London service from the Dartford area would also be better provided by an extension to the Elizbeth Line (as an east-west service), and maybe just as far as Ebbsfleet with Southeastern's HS1 services available for further stations. But it would also mean that all London bound trains from stations between Charlton and Deptford go to Cannon Street which isn't the most popular destination. The Thameslink service is also useful for visitors to Greenwich from across London and will probably become more popular when Crossrail opens with the connection at Farringdon. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 12:57:49 GMT
I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. In my opinion, Thameslink should only serve routes where they operate a substantial amount of the services. Reverting the Rainham service back to Southeastern would give a more standardised service pattern into Central London, with Thameslink maybe taking on another route via South London, for example Reigate. The role of a cross-London service from the Dartford area would also be better provided by an extension to the Elizbeth Line (as an east-west service), and maybe just as far as Ebbsfleet with Southeastern's HS1 services available for further stations. I agree, the line needs a standardised service not an unreliable service. Thameslink could potentially take over the Southern Epsom service from London Bridge if the timetable matched. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 23, 2022 12:59:09 GMT
In my opinion, Thameslink should only serve routes where they operate a substantial amount of the services. Reverting the Rainham service back to Southeastern would give a more standardised service pattern into Central London, with Thameslink maybe taking on another route via South London, for example Reigate. The role of a cross-London service from the Dartford area would also be better provided by an extension to the Elizbeth Line (as an east-west service), and maybe just as far as Ebbsfleet with Southeastern's HS1 services available for further stations. But it would also mean that all London bound trains from stations between Charlton and Deptford go to Cannon Street which isn't the most popular destination. The Thameslink service is also useful for visitors to Greenwich from across London and will probably become more popular when Crossrail opens with the connection at Farringdon. Connections are available at London Bridge, while having to change trains this does mean each service is more frequent. When Crossrail is open, I expect the more popular route to Greenwich would be changing for the DLR at Canary Wharf - this also goes to Cutty Sark which is much closer to tourist attractions than Greenwich Station. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 13:04:23 GMT
In my opinion, Thameslink should only serve routes where they operate a substantial amount of the services. Reverting the Rainham service back to Southeastern would give a more standardised service pattern into Central London, with Thameslink maybe taking on another route via South London, for example Reigate. The role of a cross-London service from the Dartford area would also be better provided by an extension to the Elizbeth Line (as an east-west service), and maybe just as far as Ebbsfleet with Southeastern's HS1 services available for further stations. But it would also mean that all London bound trains from stations between Charlton and Deptford go to Cannon Street which isn't the most popular destination. The Thameslink service is also useful for visitors to Greenwich from across London and will probably become more popular when Crossrail opens with the connection at Farringdon. Sadly that’s life that the Greenwich line would only have Cannon Street, one of the casualties of the Thameslink programme was that line losing Charing Cross. The fact is Thameslink has fouled services up along the line, slowed journeys down to a snail pace and is now effected by delays north of the river. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 17:42:42 GMT
As for CrossRail connectivity, I can see those from Charlton, Westcombe Park and Maze Hill getting the Jubilee line one stop to Canary Wharf from North Greenwich.
Greenwich users will probably get the DLR to Canary Wharf, so really it’s only Deptford that has to change twice for CrossRail at Farringdon unless people there decide to head to Canary Wharf from Greenwich.
Either way the Greenwich line is still better served than Thamesmead, which is what this thread is about.
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Post by someone on Apr 23, 2022 19:13:59 GMT
As for CrossRail connectivity, I can see those from Charlton, Westcombe Park and Maze Hill getting the Jubilee line one stop to Canary Wharf from North Greenwich. Greenwich users will probably get the DLR to Canary Wharf, so really it’s only Deptford that has to change twice for CrossRail at Farringdon unless people there decide to head to Canary Wharf from Greenwich. Either way the Greenwich line is still better served than Thamesmead, which is what this thread is about. Maybe Maze Hill and even Westcombe Park, but I think people from Charlton would probably use Woolwich given its proximity. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Apr 23, 2022 20:47:56 GMT
I think the original plan was for Thameslink to take over the Tattenham Corner services, but that became the Southern fasts to Caterham/Tattenham Corner, separating at Purley, which led to them replacing the Southeastern Metro stoppers to the Medway Towns.
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Apr 23, 2022 21:52:43 GMT
As for CrossRail connectivity, I can see those from Charlton, Westcombe Park and Maze Hill getting the Jubilee line one stop to Canary Wharf from North Greenwich. Greenwich users will probably get the DLR to Canary Wharf, so really it’s only Deptford that has to change twice for CrossRail at Farringdon unless people there decide to head to Canary Wharf from Greenwich. Either way the Greenwich line is still better served than Thamesmead, which is what this thread is about. Maybe Maze Hill and even Westcombe Park, but I think people from Charlton would probably use Woolwich given its proximity. Some Canary Wharf commuters might, but otherwise Woolwich being in Zone 4 will be quite a deterrent. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 23:41:24 GMT
I think the original plan was for Thameslink to take over the Tattenham Corner services, but that became the Southern fasts to Caterham/Tattenham Corner, separating at Purley, which led to them replacing the Southeastern Metro stoppers to the Medway Towns. The Gillingham service was never a stopper when it was SE, Thameslink made it a stopping service But you’re right in that Thameslink we’re supposed to send trains to Caterham and Tattenham Corner |
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Post by someone on Apr 24, 2022 10:36:38 GMT
Maybe Maze Hill and even Westcombe Park, but I think people from Charlton would probably use Woolwich given its proximity. Some Canary Wharf commuters might, but otherwise Woolwich being in Zone 4 will be quite a deterrent. Fair point, but I think Charlton would be a 50:50 split between using Canary Wharf and using Woolwich. |
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Post by Tangy on Apr 24, 2022 11:45:49 GMT
You need to go back to when Thamesmead was being planned to understand why it never prospered... The transport infrastructure problems of Thamesmead are not new, in the 1970s when Thamesmead was being built it was identified that the success of the new suburb would only be realised by a river crossing... a motorway was planned between what is now the A406 at Beckton across the river to Thamesmead then onwards to the A2 at Falconwood. This was part of the bigger dfT/GLC "Ringways" plan However, Thamesmead was eventually built but minus the river crossing which would have been its lifeline...blame the GLC! Of course reincarnations of this crossing were still floating around in the 2000s as the East London River Crossing until they were formally cancelled. You will note even today there is a gap in the housing north west of the A2016/A2041 roundabout in Thamesmead where the motorway would have emerged after crossing the Thames in a tunnel. Full story: www.roads.org.uk/index.php/ringways/ringway2/eastern-section |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 24, 2022 13:57:17 GMT
You need to go back to when Thamesmead was being planned to understand why it never prospered... The transport infrastructure problems of Thamesmead are not new, in the 1970s when Thamesmead was being built it was identified that the success of the new suburb would only be realised by a river crossing... a motorway was planned between what is now the A406 at Beckton across the river to Thamesmead then onwards to the A2 at Falconwood. This was part of the bigger dfT/GLC "Ringways" plan However, Thamesmead was eventually built but minus the river crossing which would have been its lifeline...blame the GLC! Of course reincarnations of this crossing were still floating around in the 2000s as the East London River Crossing until they were formally cancelled. You will note even today there is a gap in the housing north west of the A2016/A2041 roundabout in Thamesmead where the motorway would have emerged after crossing the Thames in a tunnel. Full story: www.roads.org.uk/index.php/ringways/ringway2/eastern-sectionI don't think the GLC is entirely to blame. The Labour Party campaigned for the 1973 elections on an anti-Ringway programme, and were awarded a landslide victory by a public who had seen the devastation caused by the building of the Westway and East Cross Route in the 1960s. The Conservative Government anoounced the following year that it no longer supported much of the proposed Ringways and would not fund it. The only significant part of the proposals that materialised was the Outer Ringway, which we now know better as the M25. I do also recall the protests in the 1980s against another proposal to link the North and South Circular routes, which would have cut through significant swathes of South-East London's Green Chain. |
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 24, 2022 14:10:57 GMT
You need to go back to when Thamesmead was being planned to understand why it never prospered... The transport infrastructure problems of Thamesmead are not new, in the 1970s when Thamesmead was being built it was identified that the success of the new suburb would only be realised by a river crossing... a motorway was planned between what is now the A406 at Beckton across the river to Thamesmead then onwards to the A2 at Falconwood. This was part of the bigger dfT/GLC "Ringways" plan However, Thamesmead was eventually built but minus the river crossing which would have been its lifeline...blame the GLC! Of course reincarnations of this crossing were still floating around in the 2000s as the East London River Crossing until they were formally cancelled. You will note even today there is a gap in the housing north west of the A2016/A2041 roundabout in Thamesmead where the motorway would have emerged after crossing the Thames in a tunnel. Full story: www.roads.org.uk/index.php/ringways/ringway2/eastern-sectionI don't think the GLC is entirely to blame. The Labour Party campaigned for the 1973 elections on an anti-Ringway programme, and were awarded a landslide victory by a public who had seen the devastation caused by the building of the Westway and East Cross Route in the 1960s. The Conservative Government anoounced the following year that it no longer supported much of the proposed Ringways and would not fund it. The only significant part of the proposals that materialised was the Outer Ringway, which we now know better as the M25. I do also recall the protests in the 1980s against another proposal to link the North and South Circular routes, which would have cut through significant swathes of South-East London's Green Chain. Even the M25 is a fudge, being part Ringway 3 and part Ringway 4 |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2022 19:04:18 GMT
You need to go back to when Thamesmead was being planned to understand why it never prospered... The transport infrastructure problems of Thamesmead are not new, in the 1970s when Thamesmead was being built it was identified that the success of the new suburb would only be realised by a river crossing... a motorway was planned between what is now the A406 at Beckton across the river to Thamesmead then onwards to the A2 at Falconwood. This was part of the bigger dfT/GLC "Ringways" plan However, Thamesmead was eventually built but minus the river crossing which would have been its lifeline...blame the GLC! Of course reincarnations of this crossing were still floating around in the 2000s as the East London River Crossing until they were formally cancelled. You will note even today there is a gap in the housing north west of the A2016/A2041 roundabout in Thamesmead where the motorway would have emerged after crossing the Thames in a tunnel. Full story: www.roads.org.uk/index.php/ringways/ringway2/eastern-sectionI don't think the GLC is entirely to blame. The Labour Party campaigned for the 1973 elections on an anti-Ringway programme, and were awarded a landslide victory by a public who had seen the devastation caused by the building of the Westway and East Cross Route in the 1960s. The Conservative Government anoounced the following year that it no longer supported much of the proposed Ringways and would not fund it. The only significant part of the proposals that materialised was the Outer Ringway, which we now know better as the M25. I do also recall the protests in the 1980s against another proposal to link the North and South Circular routes, which would have cut through significant swathes of South-East London's Green Chain. Through Oxley Woods I think its called in SE London. |
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