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Post by route53 on Apr 22, 2022 11:43:51 GMT
That’s ran 1tph for most of its existence and is usually the first service GTR dumps whenever there’s disruption? Hardly a tube style service and a pretty poor replacement for the old semi fast trains which actually served a purpose, it would work better as a Dartford service but Medway is too far out for a service that calls at pretty much every single minor station to London, the Greenwich branch coped with Cannon Street only services before and had a better service of a clock face 6tph and the Thameslink undoes the billions spent on separating each line on the approach to London Bridge by using North Kent East Junction, it may be unlikely the semi fasts will return but nothing is certain these days, the idea of having cross London bus routes and express bus routes seemed unlikely a year ago. I can vouch for that service being appalling. Last & first trains often get cancelled. They often run late so get stuck behind a SE trains calling at all stops so any advantage of them being marginally quicker goes. Crowded, unpleasant and slow. It’s not a very popular service, and I think it’s usage will decrease once CrossRail is up and running, that will run to Farringdon so people can change there if there want Kings Cross, North London and Luton |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 22, 2022 13:22:42 GMT
The 2tph service is resuming soon and ideally it would be more frequent than that but such are the restraints of the network. I don't see what would be achieved by removing the Thameslink service, all it would be replaced with are more Southeastern services to and from Cannon Street. The semi fast Gillingham service was removed because there are too many other trains and it was a poor use of track capacity. Also if stops were removed on the Woolwich line those stations would no longer have a direct service to Charing Cross. I doubt whether many people travel between the Medway Towns and Central London on Thameslink when there are faster services available to Victoria and the high speed service, Thameslink is more of a local service. It would restore the clockface 6tph service the Greenwich line had prior to 2018, give Medway and Gravesend a faster link to the CrossRail and DLR interchanges at Abbey Wood & Woolwich Arsenal, the Thameslink could be cut back to Gravesend then call at all stations including the shacks between Gravesend & Dartford plus Erith and Belvedere which isn’t currently served by Thameslink. I don't think Greenwich passengers will be pleased with 6tph that all go to Cannon Street and Farringdon will be a more popular destination from Greenwich when Crossrail opens. I agree that the service hasn't been great recently but it's nothing that can't be improved upon and it's not ideal that Thameslink trains don't, or can't, call at Erith, Belvedere and Woolwich Dockyard but other than that, and the ironing board seating, it's much the same as the Southeastern service. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 22, 2022 13:47:55 GMT
It would restore the clockface 6tph service the Greenwich line had prior to 2018, give Medway and Gravesend a faster link to the CrossRail and DLR interchanges at Abbey Wood & Woolwich Arsenal, the Thameslink could be cut back to Gravesend then call at all stations including the shacks between Gravesend & Dartford plus Erith and Belvedere which isn’t currently served by Thameslink. I don't think Greenwich passenger will be pleased with 6tph that all go to Cannon Street and Farringdon will be a more popular destination from Greenwich when Crossrail opens. I agree that the service hasn't been great recently but it's nothing that can't be improved upon and it's not ideal that Thameslink trains don't, or can't, call at Erith, Belvedere and Woolwich Dockyard but other than that, and the ironing board seating, it's much the same as the Southeastern service. Nothing can improve the Thameslink service, and the Greenwich line had a better service having all 6tph going to Cannon Street before 2018 than it does now, it’s less reliable than a Southeastern and that’s saying something. And besides at least Deptford, Greenwich, Maze Hill and Westcombe Park get 6tph to somewhere, some other suburban stations in London aren’t that fortunate, plus it woeful be better than what they get now, who knows when Thameslink will drop the Rainham service at a drop of a hat because of some failure in North London, reducing the line to 4tph anyway, I think the majority of people would rather have 6tph to Cannon Street, than 4tph to Cannon Street with sketchy 2tph Thameslink when it can be bothered to run a decent service |
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Post by bus12451 on Apr 22, 2022 13:57:47 GMT
I think I’m one of the few to like Thameslink through Greenwich. I’d rather keep a direct link to Kings Cross and beyond, rather than have yet another service taking me to Cannon Street or Charing Cross. I’ve caught it numerous times to and from Kings Cross, the direct link is really handy. If I’m travelling from Medway back to SE London, I tend to get the first train towards Dartford and change there if necessary. That was always my travel pattern even before the Thameslink took over, so nothing changed for me. For passengers at stations such as Stone Crossing, I think the service is undoubtedly worse. But if I compare the service from Plumstead in 2009 compared to what it is today, the improvement is massive. People were being left behind on the London bound platform whilst fast trains with capacity would sail past. I avoided commuting on the line for many years and was only tempted back once the service pattern was increased. The number of cancellations seems lower than I can ever remember, but I could be wrong since I no longer use the line daily. Maybe terminate it at Dartford but I really don’t see why outer suburban semi fast trains should be slowed down just because passengers at a particular stop don’t want to wait an extra few minutes, that’s a reality at a lot of stations in which fast trains pass by, Plumstead doesn’t need 8tph off peak it can get by on 6tph, and the shacks between Dartford, Greenhithe and Gravesend certainly don’t need 4tph, didn’t there used to be Plumstead terminators in the peaks years ago that offset passengers being left behind? Thameslink has provided a poor service since it’s inception it’s give the Greenwich line uneven gaps between trains where it had a clockface 6tph service before. Yes the Thameslink service not very useful for those coming from Medway and Gravesend. It has a padded timetable so it ends up being just as slow as an all-stations SE train between Dartford and London Bridge. Ideally it should have followed a similar calling pattern to the old SE Gillingham semi fasts, so cutting out the quieter stations like Swanscombe and Stone Crossing, as well as stations like Plumstead where I expect passenger numbers to fall once the Elizabeth Line opens. Additionally the late night/early morning Thameslink trains from Medway/Gravesend only run as far west as Dartford so no through services to Central London at those times either. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 22, 2022 15:57:05 GMT
Maybe terminate it at Dartford but I really don’t see why outer suburban semi fast trains should be slowed down just because passengers at a particular stop don’t want to wait an extra few minutes, that’s a reality at a lot of stations in which fast trains pass by, Plumstead doesn’t need 8tph off peak it can get by on 6tph, and the shacks between Dartford, Greenhithe and Gravesend certainly don’t need 4tph, didn’t there used to be Plumstead terminators in the peaks years ago that offset passengers being left behind? Thameslink has provided a poor service since it’s inception it’s give the Greenwich line uneven gaps between trains where it had a clockface 6tph service before. Yes the Thameslink service not very useful for those coming from Medway and Gravesend. It has a padded timetable so it ends up being just as slow as an all-stations SE train between Dartford and London Bridge. Ideally it should have followed a similar calling pattern to the old SE Gillingham semi fasts, so cutting out the quieter stations like Swanscombe and Stone Crossing, as well as stations like Plumstead where I expect passenger numbers to fall once the Elizabeth Line opens. Additionally the late night/early morning Thameslink trains from Medway/Gravesend only run as far west as Dartford so no through services to Central London at those times either. Yes Thameslink has a bizarre pattern in the late evenings and early mornings of running Dartford to Rainham shuttles, which isn’t useful for future CrossRail connectivity. I too suspect CrossRail will take passengers away from the North Kent/Greenwich lines once it’s up and running. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2022 4:32:40 GMT
I don't think Greenwich passenger will be pleased with 6tph that all go to Cannon Street and Farringdon will be a more popular destination from Greenwich when Crossrail opens. I agree that the service hasn't been great recently but it's nothing that can't be improved upon and it's not ideal that Thameslink trains don't, or can't, call at Erith, Belvedere and Woolwich Dockyard but other than that, and the ironing board seating, it's much the same as the Southeastern service. Nothing can improve the Thameslink service, and the Greenwich line had a better service having all 6tph going to Cannon Street before 2018 than it does now, it’s less reliable than a Southeastern and that’s saying something. And besides at least Deptford, Greenwich, Maze Hill and Westcombe Park get 6tph to somewhere, some other suburban stations in London aren’t that fortunate, plus it woeful be better than what they get now, who knows when Thameslink will drop the Rainham service at a drop of a hat because of some failure in North London, reducing the line to 4tph anyway, I think the majority of people would rather have 6tph to Cannon Street, than 4tph to Cannon Street with sketchy 2tph Thameslink when it can be bothered to run a decent service It might be better if the Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham and Woolwich Arsenal was extended to Gillingham or Rainham and the Thameslink service terminated at Dartford? Journey times would still be much the same but the Medway Towns service wouldn't be effected by delays elsewhere on the Thameslink network. |
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Post by cl54 on Apr 23, 2022 5:20:55 GMT
Nothing can improve the Thameslink service, and the Greenwich line had a better service having all 6tph going to Cannon Street before 2018 than it does now, it’s less reliable than a Southeastern and that’s saying something. And besides at least Deptford, Greenwich, Maze Hill and Westcombe Park get 6tph to somewhere, some other suburban stations in London aren’t that fortunate, plus it woeful be better than what they get now, who knows when Thameslink will drop the Rainham service at a drop of a hat because of some failure in North London, reducing the line to 4tph anyway, I think the majority of people would rather have 6tph to Cannon Street, than 4tph to Cannon Street with sketchy 2tph Thameslink when it can be bothered to run a decent service It might be better if the Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham and Woolwich Arsenal was extended to Gillingham or Rainham and the Thameslink service terminated at Dartford? Journey times would still be much the same but the Medway Towns service wouldn't be effected by delays elsewhere on the Thameslink network. I'm a regular user of the Thameslink trains. They provide a useful service for a lot of people and numbers travelling are increasing. You see a lot of people changing to main line trains at King's Cross and St Pancras as well as Luton Airport travellers. Rainham was chosen because it has a spare platform and the journey time balances with shift patterns. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2022 5:38:08 GMT
It might be better if the Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham and Woolwich Arsenal was extended to Gillingham or Rainham and the Thameslink service terminated at Dartford? Journey times would still be much the same but the Medway Towns service wouldn't be effected by delays elsewhere on the Thameslink network. I'm a regular user of the Thameslink trains. They provide a useful service for a lot of people and numbers travelling are increasing. You see a lot of people changing to main line trains at King's Cross and St Pancras as well as Luton Airport travellers. Rainham was chosen because it has a spare platform and the journey time balances with shift patterns. I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. |
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Post by cl54 on Apr 23, 2022 8:11:28 GMT
I'm a regular user of the Thameslink trains. They provide a useful service for a lot of people and numbers travelling are increasing. You see a lot of people changing to main line trains at King's Cross and St Pancras as well as Luton Airport travellers. Rainham was chosen because it has a spare platform and the journey time balances with shift patterns. I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. As I said there are operational reasons why Rainham was chosen. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2022 8:15:29 GMT
I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. As I said there are operational reasons why Rainham was chosen. I understand what you're saying but equally the Thameslink service could terminate at Gravesend and Southeastern extended to Rainham. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 23, 2022 8:33:10 GMT
I agree that the Thameslink service is very useful although it might be better only going as far as Dartford or Gravesend, obviously there's the high speed service from Gravesend and Medway Towns. As I said there are operational reasons why Rainham was chosen. In the past stoppers generally went as far as Gillingham with anything beyond being fast. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 8:49:21 GMT
Thameslink could terminate at Gravesend as its a better use for all stations services, then you can call at all stations along the route including Erith, Belvedere and Woolwich Dockyard then extend the CX-Dartford to Rainham restore the semi fast pattern sorry but Medway is too far out for an all stations service and should call only at key/larger interchange stations, and the inner stations still get 6tph: 4tph CS, and 2tph Thameslink, I will die on this hill
However if Thameslink leaves the line I won’t be sorry since I can’t see it ever improving, all it does is leave large and uneven gaps whenever the network is delayed, I’d rather there be 6tph consistent CS stoppers and 2tph CX semi fast trains than what we have today.
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 8:53:37 GMT
It might be better if the Charing Cross to Dartford via Lewisham and Woolwich Arsenal was extended to Gillingham or Rainham and the Thameslink service terminated at Dartford? Journey times would still be much the same but the Medway Towns service wouldn't be effected by delays elsewhere on the Thameslink network. I'm a regular user of the Thameslink trains. They provide a useful service for a lot of people and numbers travelling are increasing. You see a lot of people changing to main line trains at King's Cross and St Pancras as well as Luton Airport travellers. Rainham was chosen because it has a spare platform and the journey time balances with shift patterns. In my experience the majority of those from the Greenwich line empty out at London Bridge for either Charing Cross or a faster Thameslink service, with a few carrying on to St. Pancras and Luton, a service can only be deemed useful if it runs consistently which it’s really yet to do CrossRail is the real game changer for this neck of the woods I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if those east of Abbey Wood would switch there for a faster service to Farringdon and connections to other Thameslink services. |
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Post by route53 on Apr 23, 2022 9:05:45 GMT
As I said there are operational reasons why Rainham was chosen. In the past stoppers generally went as far as Gillingham with anything beyond being fast. They weren’t stoppers in that way, those stoppers always omitted certain stops in the London area, and called only a larger stations, similar to the old semi fasts, which called only at Lewisham, Blackheath, Charlton, Woolwich A., Abbey Wood, Dartford & Greenhithe then stations further out to Gillingham |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 23, 2022 9:24:52 GMT
Thameslink could terminate at Gravesend as its a better use for all stations services, then you can call at all stations along the route including Erith, Belvedere and Woolwich Dockyard then extend the CX-Dartford to Rainham restore the semi fast pattern sorry but Medway is too far out for an all stations service and should call only at key/larger interchange stations, and the inner stations still get 6tph: 4tph CS, and 2tph Thameslink, I will die on this hill However if Thameslink leaves the line I won’t be sorry since I can’t see it ever improving, all it does is leave large and uneven gaps whenever the network is delayed, I’d rather there be 6tph consistent CS stoppers and 2tph CX semi fast trains than what we have today. I agree about Thameslink terminating at Gravesend but it's not possible to provide anything other than a stopping service to Medway Towns who have fast services to Victoria and the high speed service. I would look upon the current Thameslink service as two routes merged together, I would imagine most people from the Medway Towns don't travel beyond Woolwich Arsenal and an urban service from Dartford to Central London and beyond. |
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