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Post by vjaska on Jun 14, 2022 22:53:50 GMT
Better yet, make it policy that TfL provide bus services linking the first town inside London to the first town outside it, so as not to unfairly disadvantage GLA levy payers just inside London. Or even extend their remit to the all of the old Network Southeast area, seeing as this is an unlimited budget. Make zonal fares simple and consistent (no 'special fares apply') and bring back cheaper options like zones 2-6 travelcard. Make it that wherever possible, all households have to be within 300m of a high frequency bus route and within 500m of a night route. Build orbital express bus routes and tram lines linking the outer stations and termini of each tube line with each other - concentric circles going out beyond the NLL. Redevelop all tube stations and car parks so that buses to all the surrounding destinations stop as close as possible to the station exit for maximum accessibility (eg by creating new bus stations in place of car parks, which people won't need because the buses will be so frequent and comprehensive). Ban executive bonuses and salaries over £50k and put all this money back into the service. All bus routes to be brought back in-house. On an unlimited budget probably looking at converting routes perhaps with patronage above 6 million to tram operation wouldn’t be a bad idea. It happens in Europe quite a lot That doesn't necessarily mean it would work in London. I mean I saw someone suggesting replacing the 109 with a tram - all great until you see the A23 is narrow in places and is used by many long distance journeys beyond the 109's remit meaning your just causing more issues than solving. Croydon worked for a few reasons - most of the on street running is via wide roads that had space (Wellesley Road, a large section of George Street) or through quiet side roads in the town centre as well as the vast majority of the old Addiscombe & West Croydon railway lines not to mention giving Addington & New Addington a connection to Croydon outside of buses |
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Post by astock5000 on Jun 15, 2022 3:01:26 GMT
On an unlimited budget probably looking at converting routes perhaps with patronage above 6 million to tram operation wouldn’t be a bad idea. It happens in Europe quite a lot That doesn't necessarily mean it would work in London. I mean I saw someone suggesting replacing the 109 with a tram - all great until you see the A23 is narrow in places and is used by many long distance journeys beyond the 109's remit meaning your just causing more issues than solving. Croydon worked for a few reasons - most of the on street running is via wide roads that had space (Wellesley Road, a large section of George Street) or through quiet side roads in the town centre as well as the vast majority of the old Addiscombe & West Croydon railway lines not to mention giving Addington & New Addington a connection to Croydon outside of buses Yes, there is little advantage in using trams where the route would be almost entirely on street, especially with busy roads where giving trams the priority that's standard on new systems may cause traffic problems throughout the surrounding area. Buses are more flexible and so a BRT scheme should cope better with any awkward junctions where priority isn't possible or a turn is too tight. In addition any other buses using part of the BRT route benefit too. Street track is also more expensive, requires utility diversions and causes disruption during the construction process. There are many long-established tram networks around the world with extensive street running, but they would be unlikely to be built new that way today. I would say that if the tram network was to be expanded in London, an outer ring with branches splitting off towards relatively easy to serve destinations would generally be more sensible than for example reviving the Cross River proposal. That said there may well be places where a radial line could fit and be worthwhile, however even the West London scheme ran into issues regarding traffic having to use back streets. Otherwise with an extensive bus network already existing and trams confined to outer South London, I would suggest considering if sections of busway (whether guided or not) on any available disused railway or new alignments could be combined with more priority on street elsewhere, giving some of the benefits of trams at less cost and without many of the drawbacks mentioned above. |
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Post by rugbyref on Jun 17, 2022 9:24:58 GMT
As SE London has no tube services, I would make buses in SE London immune to any cuts.
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Post by greg on Jun 17, 2022 14:28:32 GMT
Half hourly london to out of London express services would be very useful, Coaches do this already but if by any chance TFL made an outer London express
I personally think an X468 for example to serve all Thameslink stops on the St Pancras - Brighton line.
Extending from Elephant via the 35 to serve London Bridge and then quickest way to St Pancras International would be to follow the 17.
As for the roads beyond South Croydon, I do not know but to serve Redhill Station so possible via the 405 without stopping except at Purley and then to Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and to Brighton Station and possibly run further to Brighton Marina.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 17, 2022 15:13:18 GMT
Half hourly london to out of London express services would be very useful, Coaches do this already but if by any chance TFL made an outer London express I personally think an X468 for example to serve all Thameslink stops on the St Pancras - Brighton line. Extending from Elephant via the 35 to serve London Bridge and then quickest way to St Pancras International would be to follow the 17. As for the roads beyond South Croydon, I do not know but to serve Redhill Station so possible via the 405 without stopping except at Purley and then to Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and to Brighton Station and possibly run further to Brighton Marina. The problem with any route running from Central London through Inner London is unless it's providing a unique link or niche not already available like the X68, there really isn't any point as it would just get lumbered in traffic and most people would take the train in any event even at the higher price. Beyond London, you also have the issue of what happens with the commercial operators particularly Metrobus excellent Route 100 which has fast sections around the Gatwick Airport area and is an important route between Reading & Crawley via the airport |
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Post by abellion on Jun 17, 2022 15:40:48 GMT
Half hourly london to out of London express services would be very useful, Coaches do this already but if by any chance TFL made an outer London express I personally think an X468 for example to serve all Thameslink stops on the St Pancras - Brighton line. Extending from Elephant via the 35 to serve London Bridge and then quickest way to St Pancras International would be to follow the 17. As for the roads beyond South Croydon, I do not know but to serve Redhill Station so possible via the 405 without stopping except at Purley and then to Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and to Brighton Station and possibly run further to Brighton Marina. So the entire basis of the route is following an already existing train line that would be much faster to use? The X468 might have demand but it'd probably end up being people trying to get from KX to Elephant or Croydon to Purley without the stops, not someone wasting their time going from Gatwick to Elephant on a bus |
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 17, 2022 19:12:42 GMT
Half hourly london to out of London express services would be very useful, Coaches do this already but if by any chance TFL made an outer London express I personally think an X468 for example to serve all Thameslink stops on the St Pancras - Brighton line. Extending from Elephant via the 35 to serve London Bridge and then quickest way to St Pancras International would be to follow the 17. As for the roads beyond South Croydon, I do not know but to serve Redhill Station so possible via the 405 without stopping except at Purley and then to Haywards Heath, Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and to Brighton Station and possibly run further to Brighton Marina. We'll have to be careful not to flood London with too many buses and routes  with an unlimited budget   |
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Post by rugbyref on Jun 18, 2022 17:15:06 GMT
With unlimited budget I would send all ZF gearboxes for scrap and replace them.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 9, 2022 19:57:17 GMT
Better yet, make it policy that TfL provide bus services linking the first town inside London to the first town outside it, so as not to unfairly disadvantage GLA levy payers just inside London. Yes - this should absolutely be a thing. A good number of non-London towns where this applies do actually have a TfL bus service, but going clockwise from the Dartford Crossings, notable places without a TfL bus which should in my opinion receive one are Sevenoaks, Reigate, Walton, Gerrard’s Cross, Rickmansworth and Waltham Abbey. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 9, 2022 20:34:45 GMT
Better yet, make it policy that TfL provide bus services linking the first town inside London to the first town outside it, so as not to unfairly disadvantage GLA levy payers just inside London. Yes - this should absolutely be a thing. A good number of non-London towns where this applies do actually have a TfL bus service, but going clockwise from the Dartford Crossings, notable places without a TfL bus which should in my opinion receive one are Sevenoaks, Reigate, Walton, Gerrard’s Cross, Rickmansworth and Waltham Abbey. Problem is though if those outside the London council borders aren’t contributing to the GLA, regardless of whether they travel into it to work, their home is simply not paying the GLA through council tax. Then combine that with the fact that their councils aren’t willing to contribute to the routes costs it begs the question of why TfL should be obligated to? Those asking for this should look at the example Surrey sets with its contributions towards its cross border TfL routes. It values them and continues to fund them because of the level of service would be unmatched on their own dime. A route like the 465 which currently runs every half hour during the day and from 5am to 12.30am might get cut to very 2 hours during the day and only run from 7am to 7pm under a full Surrey system. Perhaps if Kent or Essex were willing to pay more, they would get more. The money has to come from somewhere and it already known bus routes in London don’t return revenue on what they cost. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 9, 2022 21:06:47 GMT
I don’t disagree southlondon413 (sorry - post a bit long to quote) - but this is a bit of a dream thread, and who wouldn’t like a TfL 420 from Sutton to Reigate? 😂 |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 9, 2022 21:37:45 GMT
Yes - this should absolutely be a thing. A good number of non-London towns where this applies do actually have a TfL bus service, but going clockwise from the Dartford Crossings, notable places without a TfL bus which should in my opinion receive one are Sevenoaks, Reigate, Walton, Gerrard’s Cross, Rickmansworth and Waltham Abbey. Problem is though if those outside the London council borders aren’t contributing to the GLA, regardless of whether they travel into it to work, their home is simply not paying the GLA through council tax. Then combine that with the fact that their councils aren’t willing to contribute to the routes costs it begs the question of why TfL should be obligated to? Those asking for this should look at the example Surrey sets with its contributions towards its cross border TfL routes. It values them and continues to fund them because of the level of service would be unmatched on their own dime. A route like the 465 which currently runs every half hour during the day and from 5am to 12.30am might get cut to very 2 hours during the day and only run from 7am to 7pm under a full Surrey system. Perhaps if Kent or Essex were willing to pay more, they would get more. The money has to come from somewhere and it already known bus routes in London don’t return revenue on what they cost. There is a double edged sword to that though - there are a number of people within Greater London who use services into Kent & Essex to cross the border for work as well as leisure yet they really aren't getting their moneys worth. Don't forget TfL have made it harder and harder for provincial operators to run their long standing services into the Greater London area with things like the LEZ & ULEZ so it's quite thankful the likes of the 420 & the Chiltern 100's, among others, still run into Greater London at all but for how much longer who knows. |
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Post by Paul on Jul 10, 2022 12:46:31 GMT
Better yet, make it policy that TfL provide bus services linking the first town inside London to the first town outside it, so as not to unfairly disadvantage GLA levy payers just inside London. Yes - this should absolutely be a thing. A good number of non-London towns where this applies do actually have a TfL bus service, but going clockwise from the Dartford Crossings, notable places without a TfL bus which should in my opinion receive one are Sevenoaks, Reigate, Walton, Gerrard’s Cross, Rickmansworth and Waltham Abbey. I can’t see how a Bromley - Farnborough - Green Street Green - Polhill - Dunton Green - Sevenoaks route wouldn’t be a success. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 10, 2022 12:53:27 GMT
Yes - this should absolutely be a thing. A good number of non-London towns where this applies do actually have a TfL bus service, but going clockwise from the Dartford Crossings, notable places without a TfL bus which should in my opinion receive one are Sevenoaks, Reigate, Walton, Gerrard’s Cross, Rickmansworth and Waltham Abbey. I can’t see how a Bromley - Farnborough - Green Street Green - Polhill - Dunton Green - Sevenoaks route wouldn’t be a success. As a TFL or commercial route? If commercial then it would loose out to people with london bus passes/travel cards to the 358 between Bromley and Green St Gn. |
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Post by M1104 on Jul 10, 2022 13:01:07 GMT
For starters re-introduce garage journeys where appropriate/beneficial and officially reintroduce request stops.
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