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Post by SouthLondoner468 on Aug 26, 2022 17:04:25 GMT
It's probably difficult to come up with a clear definition with no exceptions. I agree that Kingston's Fairfield doesn't seem like a 'proper' bus station since the only stops are out on the road, however Golders Green has several stops for departures spread throughout the site so to me does count even though it is only used by terminating services. Some bus stations simply don't have the space to handle all routes in the immediate area, and similar can be found outside of London - such as Cambridge's Drummer Street. There and in other provincial cities a bus station may be served by terminating and/or interurban routes, while the rest simply stop on roads outside. Back in London, the 168 runs down the side of Euston without entering the bus station while routes such as the 73 only serve it in one direction. Therefore I just tend to stick to official names, and so I would call Fairfield a bus station despite the above. Re definition, I should have explained that my rationale to include a location as a “Bus Station” on the list was based on TfL designating bus stop(s) that included the name “Bus Station”. Accordingly, Ruislip, Uxbridge and Golders Green are not included for that reason. However, I did include “Interchanges” and Brent Cross Shopping Centre as that does ‘feel’ like a bus station. Interesting to see all the comments, I missed Wimbledon Bus Station – thanks for that. According to TfL online maps Becontree Bus Station still ‘exists’ as a bus stop but no TfL services currently using. I agree – East Croydon doesn’t feel like a bus station! At least it didn’t when I used it recently for a ride on EL1 on the 119. Mortlake and Eltham – good point re single-deckers only – Mortlake may also be the quietest ‘bus station’ in London. Yeah to me, East Croydon is more like an interchange. And you can only serve it in one direction |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Aug 26, 2022 17:36:44 GMT
I would agree some aren't really bus stations, such as Fairfield as mentioned as only a small selection of Kingston routes stop there (111, 216, 411, 371, 65, N65, 71, 465, 418, 406, K1, K2, K3, K4, 85, 281, 481, 285, X26 and provincial routes ordinarily miss it out), when compared to Cromwell Road.
However, what about ones like Cromwell Road and Richmond which routes only serve in one direction? These aren't interchange hubs in quite the same way as bi-directional bus stations. Such that a change from a 371 onto a 216 couldn't take place at Cromwell Road. Likewise at Richmond you can't make the change from a R70 onto a 371 there.
Well, I do have a family member who says a station must have trains serve it so calls all mentioned bus stations "bus garages"!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 18:53:21 GMT
A number of the so called bus stations listed aren’t bus stations in my eyes. One of the ones listed doesn’t even exist anymore One of those in my opinion is East Croydon Bus Station. It’s more like an interchange Definitely. Orpingnton Bus Station doesn’t feel like one either. I’ve always thought Bexleyheath Town Centre could do with a bus station. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 27, 2022 8:49:09 GMT
Does the Coldharbour terminus for 135, 277 and D6 considered a bus station?
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Post by Busboy105 on Aug 27, 2022 9:17:32 GMT
Does the Coldharbour terminus for 135, 277 and D6 considered a bus station? I wouldn't say so |
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Post by mondraker275 on Aug 27, 2022 9:40:56 GMT
Looking at main bus termination points near me, I think:
Bus Station: Walthamstow Central, Stratford, Tottenham Hale, Turnpike Lane, Canning Town, Beckton bus station.
Not a bus station:
Leytonstone: You have two parts to it so no one location for people to descend to. (Finsbury Park would be the same)
Chingford: 1) The 397 drives straight passed it (in both directions) and does not serve the location. If it were a bus station it would enter it (Prince Regent is not for similar reason). 2) Anytime a bus alighting point is also a stand that is a sign it is not a bus station. I would put Victoria Station here as an example. Not a bus station.
Crossharbour: You only have one stop for all routes. I would think a station should have multiple stops. I also think non-terminating bus should be a qualifying point.
Other reasons:
1) If a taxi can enter and pick up people it is not a bus station. e.g. Ruislip I was at the other day. Stratford Taxi rank is outside of the station by the way...It has to be bus only areas.
2) Bus stations usually have traffic light entrance/exit. Not always, but all the above I do have do.
Happy for anyone else to add or challenge to what qualifies as a bus station.
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 27, 2022 9:59:53 GMT
I would think a station should have multiple stops. I also think non-terminating bus should be a qualifying point. By this definition would Bell Green Sainsbury's be considered one? I don't think it is, since it is only a hub where a few buses terminate and others pass through |
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Post by twobellstogo on Aug 27, 2022 10:25:54 GMT
I’ve always thought Bexleyheath Town Centre could do with a bus station. I don’t think Bexleyheath really needs a bus station : the way buses serve the town centre now is very good indeed - it has (imo) an excellent pedestrianisation scheme that doesn’t inconvenience the buses. |
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Post by borneobus on Aug 27, 2022 12:10:07 GMT
Looking at main bus termination points near me, I think: Bus Station: Walthamstow Central, Stratford, Tottenham Hale, Turnpike Lane, Canning Town, Beckton bus station. Not a bus station: Leytonstone: You have two parts to it so no one location for people to descend to. (Finsbury Park would be the same) Chingford: 1) The 397 drives straight passed it (in both directions) and does not serve the location. If it were a bus station it would enter it (Prince Regent is not for similar reason). 2) Anytime a bus alighting point is also a stand that is a sign it is not a bus station. I would put Victoria Station here as an example. Not a bus station. Crossharbour: You only have one stop for all routes. I would think a station should have multiple stops. I also think non-terminating bus should be a qualifying point. Other reasons: 1) If a taxi can enter and pick up people it is not a bus station. e.g. Ruislip I was at the other day. Stratford Taxi rank is outside of the station by the way...It has to be bus only areas. 2) Bus stations usually have traffic light entrance/exit. Not always, but all the above I do have do. Happy for anyone else to add or challenge to what qualifies as a bus station. I'll have a go! Unlike many forum contributors, I’m not an industry professional but I’ll do my best as a layman to attempt a bus station definition and also list other non-exhaustive criteria / considerations BUS STATION • A dedicated area ring-fenced for bus (and coach) operations only (no other forms of private or public passenger transport permitted) • May be dedicated to local routes, long-distance routes or a mix of both • May have a mix of routes that either terminate or transit the bus station • For transits the route should in normal circumstances be scheduled to serve the bus station in both directions (but…as examples Stratford 308 and West Croydon 289 don’t…and they both ‘feel’ like bus stations) • Bus station may be dedicated to one operator or served by two or more operators • A bus station should provide opportunities for passengers to transfer from route to route (and operator to operator) in order to reach their final destination There’s then a separate list of other criteria that in a perfect world unconstrained by financial budgets a bus station should meet: LOCATION • ‘Useful’ to passengers (e.g. City Centre, Rail / Underground Station, Shopping Centre etc.) • Serves, and recognised as the ‘hub’ for bus operations in the area OPERATIONAL • Sufficient parking space, stands, turning area and lighting • ‘Sterile’ area dedicated to buses and staff as required [where no passengers allowed] • Drivers / other staff rest area and dedicated WC • Operational office space for bus operators as required • Swift egress / access to local roads (e.g. traffic light sequencing and dedicated bus lanes) • CCTV to maintain compliance to ‘buses only’ rule PASSENGER • Clear and consistent signage and service information including airline style departure boards (as per Harrow Bus Station) • For passenger safety: CCTV, safety rails, zebra crossings, non-slip pavements, well-lit etc. and user friendly for passengers with reduced mobility or other impairments • Weather-proof waiting area(s) • Public toilets, shops, restaurants |
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frank
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Post by frank on Aug 28, 2022 11:16:43 GMT
Looking at main bus termination points near me, I think: Bus Station: Walthamstow Central, Stratford, Tottenham Hale, Turnpike Lane, Canning Town, Beckton bus station. Not a bus station: Leytonstone: You have two parts to it so no one location for people to descend to. (Finsbury Park would be the same) Chingford: 1) The 397 drives straight passed it (in both directions) and does not serve the location. If it were a bus station it would enter it (Prince Regent is not for similar reason). 2) Anytime a bus alighting point is also a stand that is a sign it is not a bus station. I would put Victoria Station here as an example. Not a bus station. Crossharbour: You only have one stop for all routes. I would think a station should have multiple stops. I also think non-terminating bus should be a qualifying point. Other reasons: 1) If a taxi can enter and pick up people it is not a bus station. e.g. Ruislip I was at the other day. Stratford Taxi rank is outside of the station by the way...It has to be bus only areas. 2) Bus stations usually have traffic light entrance/exit. Not always, but all the above I do have do. Happy for anyone else to add or challenge to what qualifies as a bus station. I'll have a go! Unlike many forum contributors, I’m not an industry professional but I’ll do my best as a layman to attempt a bus station definition and also list other non-exhaustive criteria / considerations BUS STATION • A dedicated area ring-fenced for bus (and coach) operations only (no other forms of private or public passenger transport permitted) • May be dedicated to local routes, long-distance routes or a mix of both • May have a mix of routes that either terminate or transit the bus station • For transits the route should in normal circumstances be scheduled to serve the bus station in both directions (but…as examples Stratford 308 and West Croydon 289 don’t…and they both ‘feel’ like bus stations) • Bus station may be dedicated to one operator or served by two or more operators • A bus station should provide opportunities for passengers to transfer from route to route (and operator to operator) in order to reach their final destination There’s then a separate list of other criteria that in a perfect world unconstrained by financial budgets a bus station should meet: LOCATION • ‘Useful’ to passengers (e.g. City Centre, Rail / Underground Station, Shopping Centre etc.) • Serves, and recognised as the ‘hub’ for bus operations in the area OPERATIONAL • Sufficient parking space, stands, turning area and lighting • ‘Sterile’ area dedicated to buses and staff as required [where no passengers allowed] • Drivers / other staff rest area and dedicated WC • Operational office space for bus operators as required • Swift egress / access to local roads (e.g. traffic light sequencing and dedicated bus lanes) • CCTV to maintain compliance to ‘buses only’ rule PASSENGER • Clear and consistent signage and service information including airline style departure boards (as per Harrow Bus Station) • For passenger safety: CCTV, safety rails, zebra crossings, non-slip pavements, well-lit etc. and user friendly for passengers with reduced mobility or other impairments • Weather-proof waiting area(s) • Public toilets, shops, restaurants Thanks borneobus, that's a really good description. I would be a little flexible on public amenities such as shops etc. and maybe some of the operational criteria such as swift egress to local roads as the geography of the area may unfairly impact that. But the rest of the your criteria makes complete sense. I would also add in the criteria for 'useful' under location that interchange to other bus routes is key. I know that you already imply this point elsewhere. I think between your verdict and one snowman provided earlier in the chat that's a very description of what a bus station is! Thanks |
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Post by borneobus on Aug 28, 2022 12:57:34 GMT
I'll have a go! Unlike many forum contributors, I’m not an industry professional but I’ll do my best as a layman to attempt a bus station definition and also list other non-exhaustive criteria / considerations BUS STATION • A dedicated area ring-fenced for bus (and coach) operations only (no other forms of private or public passenger transport permitted) • May be dedicated to local routes, long-distance routes or a mix of both • May have a mix of routes that either terminate or transit the bus station • For transits the route should in normal circumstances be scheduled to serve the bus station in both directions (but…as examples Stratford 308 and West Croydon 289 don’t…and they both ‘feel’ like bus stations) • Bus station may be dedicated to one operator or served by two or more operators • A bus station should provide opportunities for passengers to transfer from route to route (and operator to operator) in order to reach their final destination There’s then a separate list of other criteria that in a perfect world unconstrained by financial budgets a bus station should meet: LOCATION • ‘Useful’ to passengers (e.g. City Centre, Rail / Underground Station, Shopping Centre etc.) • Serves, and recognised as the ‘hub’ for bus operations in the area OPERATIONAL • Sufficient parking space, stands, turning area and lighting • ‘Sterile’ area dedicated to buses and staff as required [where no passengers allowed] • Drivers / other staff rest area and dedicated WC • Operational office space for bus operators as required • Swift egress / access to local roads (e.g. traffic light sequencing and dedicated bus lanes) • CCTV to maintain compliance to ‘buses only’ rule PASSENGER • Clear and consistent signage and service information including airline style departure boards (as per Harrow Bus Station) • For passenger safety: CCTV, safety rails, zebra crossings, non-slip pavements, well-lit etc. and user friendly for passengers with reduced mobility or other impairments • Weather-proof waiting area(s) • Public toilets, shops, restaurants Thanks borneobus , that's a really good description. I would be a little flexible on public amenities such as shops etc. and maybe some of the operational criteria such as swift egress to local roads as the geography of the area may unfairly impact that. But the rest of the your criteria makes complete sense. I would also add in the criteria for 'useful' under location that interchange to other bus routes is key. I know that you already imply this point elsewhere. I think between your verdict and one snowman provided earlier in the chat that's a very description of what a bus station is! Thanks Thanks frank and agree with all your comments. There are two areas where I'd find it very interesting if any other members can provide an update / additional information: 1) The rationale that TfL employed to 'name' the bus stops "Bus Station" (per my original list) 2) The amount of interchange traffic - at both Bus Station level and route to route - in both percentage and absolute numbers - for example I'm assuming the amount of transfer traffic at Heathrow Central Bus Station is negligible but at Harrow Bus Station may be considerably higher e.g. passengers transferring to some of the local 'H' routes that serve the west and north of Harrow after alighting say the X140. |
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Post by ian on Aug 28, 2022 20:52:55 GMT
North Finchley bus station always feels pretty atrocious to me - not particularly safe to get to; feels dark and unwelcoming; adds little value in terms of interchange and so on. Ugh!
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 28, 2022 21:03:28 GMT
North Finchley bus station always feels pretty atrocious to me - not particularly safe to get to; feels dark and unwelcoming; adds little value in terms of interchange and so on. Ugh! Also in the middle of a Gyratory so doesn't feel particularly nice! Would be like putting a bus station inside Hanger Lane if there was space! |
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Post by VWH1419 on Aug 28, 2022 21:25:47 GMT
North Finchley bus station always feels pretty atrocious to me - not particularly safe to get to; feels dark and unwelcoming; adds little value in terms of interchange and so on. Ugh! It's been pretty shabby since day 1. Very gloomy + dull and a bit of an haven for anti-social behaviour (graffiti around the station and urinating come to mind) That saying, it is always busy inside so doesn't feel totally dangerous and can easily get an bus. I believe it was closed a couple of times last year due to safety issues.
Think Edgware and Brent Cross are probably the best for easily navigating which bus you want and which stop if you can forgive buses bunching in queues.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 28, 2022 21:42:54 GMT
North Finchley bus station always feels pretty atrocious to me - not particularly safe to get to; feels dark and unwelcoming; adds little value in terms of interchange and so on. Ugh! Also in the middle of a Gyratory so doesn't feel particularly nice! Would be like putting a bus station inside Hanger Lane if there was space! Not really - Hanger Lane is a different animal altogether. Having navigated both, the North Finchley gyratory is so much easier to navigate and isn't an issue personally. The comments about the bus station itself though are valid, really not a nice place and reminds me of the one at Aylesbury |
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