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Post by matthieu1221 on May 12, 2024 0:37:38 GMT
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Post by WLT892 on Jun 19, 2024 22:17:37 GMT
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jun 19, 2024 22:32:02 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Aug 1, 2024 10:42:08 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Aug 1, 2024 11:38:41 GMT
A couple of things I noticed: The new Enviro 400 has a turning circle of 10.1m so should fit any decker route without issue Stagecoach aren’t the only ones with orders for it in London as “operators” was mentioned in that regard |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Aug 1, 2024 11:42:46 GMT
A couple of things I noticed: The new Enviro 400 has a turning circle of 10.1m so should fit any decker route without issue Stagecoach aren’t the only ones with orders for it in London as “operators” was mentioned in that regard For the E100EV I think it's GAL for the R1/R3/R4/R8/233, and for the E400EV I'm going to suggest Metroline for route 98 or GAL for a route such as the 88. |
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Post by M1104 on Aug 1, 2024 12:05:18 GMT
A couple of things I noticed: The new Enviro 400 has a turning circle of 10.1m so should fit any decker route without issue Stagecoach aren’t the only ones with orders for it in London as “operators” was mentioned in that regard For the E100EV I think it's GAL for the R1/R3/R4/R8/233, and for the E400EV I'm going to suggest Metroline for route 98 or GAL for a route such as the 88. The already Ee spec'd (on paper) 151 could also be a possibility as I believe a 'different bus' option's not yet ruled out as a solution to the Worcester Park infrastructure issue, the relevant Ees under that senario then on paper reallocated |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 1, 2024 12:38:34 GMT
A couple of things I noticed: The new Enviro 400 has a turning circle of 10.1m so should fit any decker route without issue Stagecoach aren’t the only ones with orders for it in London as “operators” was mentioned in that regard It's also worth noting that the overall length of the London spec is shorter, at 10.5m - the non-London spec is 11.1m and the BYD/ADL combo is 10.9m. It's also worth noting that ADL warrants the battery energy storage for fourteen years or one million miles (whichever comes first) - that's enough to cover two full TfL contracts. This would have been inconceivable when the first BYD/ADL double deckers started appearing en-masse just five years ago and shows how fast EV technology is developing. The first vehicle to be produced is a demonstrator - as I expected (the interior is TfL-spec rather than Stagecoach-specific, although Stagecoach London does now use the TfL moquette). Presumably the glazed staircase is optional, as with other ADL designs. www.route-one.net/news/alexander-dennis-debuts-london-specification-enviro400ev/ |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 1, 2024 13:12:51 GMT
I wonder which option operators will be opting for. Also will be interesting to note if the reduced capacity is from reduced seating (i.e. batteries taking up more space) or because of increased battery weight meaning a reduction in legal capacity rather than usable passenger space. |
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Post by exbox on Aug 1, 2024 14:19:14 GMT
A couple of things I noticed: The new Enviro 400 has a turning circle of 10.1m so should fit any decker route without issue Stagecoach aren’t the only ones with orders for it in London as “operators” was mentioned in that regard It's also worth noting that ADL warrants the battery energy storage for fourteen years or one million miles (whichever comes first) - that's enough to cover two full TfL contracts. This would have been inconceivable when the first BYD/ADL double deckers started appearing en-masse just five years ago and shows how fast EV technology is developing. The pedant in me is obliged to point out that the warranty is for 1 million km, about 600k miles. Still impressive compared to the regular diesel 3 year 180k km warranty. |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 1, 2024 16:09:31 GMT
It's also worth noting that ADL warrants the battery energy storage for fourteen years or one million miles (whichever comes first) - that's enough to cover two full TfL contracts. This would have been inconceivable when the first BYD/ADL double deckers started appearing en-masse just five years ago and shows how fast EV technology is developing. The pedant in me is obliged to point out that the warranty is for 1 million km, about 600k miles. Still impressive compared to the regular diesel 3 year 180k km warranty. No you're quite right to point out that it's one million km - that was a mistake on my part. |
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Post by allentc on Aug 1, 2024 17:01:59 GMT
It's also worth noting that ADL warrants the battery energy storage for fourteen years or one million miles (whichever comes first) - that's enough to cover two full TfL contracts. This would have been inconceivable when the first BYD/ADL double deckers started appearing en-masse just five years ago and shows how fast EV technology is developing. It will be interesting to read the fine print of the warranty because if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. No doubt ADL/NFI lawyers will have been all over it to reduce future financial liability whilst keeping the PR people happy with a headline grabber.
It is a given that useful battery capacity will diminish over time so the warranty probably won't protect fully against that element. I doubt in year 10, 12 or whatever that a free battery will be provided because useful capacity is 20/40/60% or whatever % lower than when new. There will probably be a get out clause to cover against "natural loss" or they will state what they think what "natural loss in capacity" should be with statistical analysis and modelling to rule out the vast majority of potential cases apart from the extremes.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 1, 2024 17:14:46 GMT
It's also worth noting that ADL warrants the battery energy storage for fourteen years or one million miles (whichever comes first) - that's enough to cover two full TfL contracts. This would have been inconceivable when the first BYD/ADL double deckers started appearing en-masse just five years ago and shows how fast EV technology is developing. It will be interesting to read the fine print of the warranty because if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. No doubt ADL/NFI lawyers will have been all over it to reduce future financial liability whilst keeping the PR people happy with a headline grabber.
It is a given that useful battery capacity will diminish over time so the warranty probably won't protect against that element. I doubt in year 10, 12 or whatever that a free battery will be provided because useful capacity is 20/40/60% or whatever % lower than when new. There will probably be a get out clause to cover against "natural loss".
Its my guess that 14 year warranty will cover "manufacturing defects and faults" which is always hard for the customer to prove unless failure happens within a short time frame after delivery. Otherwise it is quite easy to argue the fault could be customer misuse and unless you do a deep costly forensic and scientific dive how can you counter?
Is it too good to be true, though? Battery technology and capability has come on in leaps and bounds since the decision and there are further developments in the pipeline, related to battery size and weight. ADL's new batteries are streets ahead of the BYD/ADL batteries of five years ago. Battery capacity may still reduce over time, but these new batteries are unlikely to need replacing at mid-life. Not like the hybrids, where the battery technology compared to today was primitive. It's a bold claim, but I reckon ADL can justify it. |
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Post by allentc on Aug 1, 2024 17:34:58 GMT
Internal combustion engines have been around for 100+ years. Many buses are still on their original engines long after their life in London. So why haven't ADL offered a 14 year warranty on those but can with a technology still in its infancy?
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 1, 2024 17:48:38 GMT
Internal combustion engines have been around for 100+ years. Many buses are still on their original engines long after their life in London. So why haven't ADL offered a 14 year warranty on those but can with a technology still in its infancy? Warranting the batteries over a 14-year life, or two full London contracts, helps to guarantee the total cost of ownership. Essentially, operators will not need to be concerned about having to find money should any batteries need replacing further down the line. ADL have done lots of research and development for these new EVs and I am sure they are confident in their warranting. |
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