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Post by allentc on Aug 1, 2024 18:06:27 GMT
Mercedes did a similar headline grabbing thing with their 30 year anti corrosion warranty for cars. Turned out in the small print it covered perforation from inside out and not the opposite which would be the majority of cases. Around that that time Mercedes cars were renowned for prematurely rusting. No doubt hordes of owners turned up dealerships thinking they could get it remedied under the 30 year warranty only to be bitterly disappointed. The small print is crucial when it comes to any warranty be it car, phone, computer or whatever.
Laptops and mobile phones have similar battery technology if not more advanced. Why has no one offered a lengthy warranty?
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exbox
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Post by exbox on Aug 2, 2024 16:42:02 GMT
It's also worth noting that ADL warrants the battery energy storage for fourteen years or one million miles (whichever comes first) - that's enough to cover two full TfL contracts. This would have been inconceivable when the first BYD/ADL double deckers started appearing en-masse just five years ago and shows how fast EV technology is developing. It will be interesting to read the fine print of the warranty because if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. No doubt ADL/NFI lawyers will have been all over it to reduce future financial liability whilst keeping the PR people happy with a headline grabber.
There's no jiggery pokery involved. The batteries will naturally lose capacity over time so you oversize them. If you expect them to provide sufficient capacity for 2 million km then you can safely offer a warranty for half that. |
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exbox
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Post by exbox on Aug 2, 2024 16:43:25 GMT
Internal combustion engines have been around for 100+ years. Many buses are still on their original engines long after their life in London. So why haven't ADL offered a 14 year warranty on those but can with a technology still in its infancy? Because EVs are inherently more reliable. Yutong offer an even longer warranty on theirs - 16 years or 1.5 million km. |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 2, 2024 16:44:30 GMT
It will be interesting to read the fine print of the warranty because if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. No doubt ADL/NFI lawyers will have been all over it to reduce future financial liability whilst keeping the PR people happy with a headline grabber.
There's no jiggery pokery involved. The batteries will naturally lose capacity over time so you oversize them. If you expect them to provide sufficient capacity for 2 million km then you can safely offer a warranty for half that. But that increases weight ... Increase it too much ... Capacity has to reduce. Looks like an extra 118KwH reduces capacity by 9. |
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exbox
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Post by exbox on Aug 2, 2024 16:49:08 GMT
Mercedes did a similar headline grabbing thing with their 30 year anti corrosion warranty for cars. Turned out in the small print it covered perforation from inside out and not the opposite which would be the majority of cases. Around that that time Mercedes cars were renowned for prematurely rusting. No doubt hordes of owners turned up dealerships thinking they could get it remedied under the 30 year warranty only to be bitterly disappointed. The small print is crucial when it comes to any warranty be it car, phone, computer or whatever. Laptops and mobile phones have similar battery technology if not more advanced. Why has no one offered a lengthy warranty? Automotive batteries are built to a far higher standard than laptop or mobile batteries. It's like saying that a tractor and a Boeing 777 are similar because they can both run on diesel. |
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exbox
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Post by exbox on Aug 2, 2024 16:50:50 GMT
There's no jiggery pokery involved. The batteries will naturally lose capacity over time so you oversize them. If you expect them to provide sufficient capacity for 2 million km then you can safely offer a warranty for half that. But that increases weight ... Increase it too much ... Capacity has to reduce. Looks like an extra 118KwH reduces capacity by 9. It does indeed increase weight but since the days of milk floats with lead acid batteries, energy density has steadily increased. |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 5, 2024 18:16:32 GMT
The least they could to is give us some more windows that open and make the openings larger.
Oh and sort out their horrendous build quality, on their vehicles, their 400 BYD's aren't as bad as the MMC's or the older Enviros, but its too early to tell for most of them.
But their AC/Fan system for the interior has always been better than a Wrightbus, but only if its switched on...
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Post by vjaska on Aug 5, 2024 22:01:58 GMT
The least they could to is give us some more windows that open and make the openings larger. Oh and sort out their horrendous build quality, on their vehicles, their 400 BYD's aren't as bad as the MMC's or the older Enviros, but its too early to tell for most of them. But their AC/Fan system for the interior has always been better than a Wrightbus, but only if its switched on... The air cooling on almost every Wrightbus vehicle bar the LT is superior to ADL's system - Geminis are so much cooler to travel on in comparison to MMC's & Citys. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 6, 2024 1:46:49 GMT
The least they could to is give us some more windows that open and make the openings larger. Oh and sort out their horrendous build quality, on their vehicles, their 400 BYD's aren't as bad as the MMC's or the older Enviros, but its too early to tell for most of them. But their AC/Fan system for the interior has always been better than a Wrightbus, but only if its switched on... The air cooling on almost every Wrightbus vehicle bar the LT is superior to ADL's system - Geminis are so much cooler to travel on in comparison to MMC's & Citys. Smaller windows also tend to help combat the greenhouse effect. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 6, 2024 1:47:35 GMT
The least they could to is give us some more windows that open and make the openings larger. Oh and sort out their horrendous build quality, on their vehicles, their 400 BYD's aren't as bad as the MMC's or the older Enviros, but its too early to tell for most of them. But their AC/Fan system for the interior has always been better than a Wrightbus, but only if its switched on... TfL-mandated minimum number of openable windows I believe... (and possibly size?) |
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Post by cl54 on Aug 6, 2024 6:59:58 GMT
The least they could to is give us some more windows that open and make the openings larger. Oh and sort out their horrendous build quality, on their vehicles, their 400 BYD's aren't as bad as the MMC's or the older Enviros, but its too early to tell for most of them. But their AC/Fan system for the interior has always been better than a Wrightbus, but only if its switched on... TfL-mandated minimum number of openable windows I believe... (and possibly size?) Larger hopper windows would be dangerous for passengers hitting their heads. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Aug 6, 2024 8:38:24 GMT
The least they could to is give us some more windows that open and make the openings larger. Oh and sort out their horrendous build quality, on their vehicles, their 400 BYD's aren't as bad as the MMC's or the older Enviros, but its too early to tell for most of them. But their AC/Fan system for the interior has always been better than a Wrightbus, but only if its switched on... I have to disagree with your comments about the build quality on MMC’s, they’re certainly a big step up from their predecessors. ADL have learned since the original Enviro products. Certainly the build quality of the pre-ECWVTA spec E200’s (i.e. all E200’s built before late 2011) were terrible and all of the remaining ones now look pretty knackered, not to mention they rattle loads (though some of it can be caused by mechanical components). But since then, I would say they’ve got a grip on things and I find most ADL buses very good to travel on. I have however noticed that recently, the build quality of some BYD Enviro’s have slipped and I commented on this recently when there were a few obvious things missing from SEe331 which should’ve been checked after it left the factory such as a working rear door alarm and rear doors continuously failing on SEe252 when I had that on two separate trips. This is despite those buses being less than a year old, and in the case of SEe331, only being in service a week prior to when I had it. Would be interesting to see how well built the new ADL integral products are, but I do agree with your point about the windows. They look quite silly, very much like an integral BYD design and that’s one thing they shouldn’t have touched when redesigning the product. |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 9, 2024 21:09:55 GMT
TfL-mandated minimum number of openable windows I believe... (and possibly size?) Larger hopper windows would be dangerous for passengers hitting their heads. Could get the LT type of windows that slide open |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 9, 2024 21:28:45 GMT
I have to disagree with your comments about the build quality on MMC’s, they’re certainly a big step up from their predecessors. ADL have learned since the original Enviro products. Certainly the build quality of the pre-ECWVTA spec E200’s (i.e. all E200’s built before late 2011) were terrible and all of the remaining ones now look pretty knackered, not to mention they rattle loads (though some of it can be caused by mechanical components). But since then, I would say they’ve got a grip on things and I find most ADL buses very good to travel on. I have however noticed that recently, the build quality of some BYD Enviro’s have slipped and I commented on this recently when there were a few obvious things missing from SEe331 which should’ve been checked after it left the factory such as a working rear door alarm and rear doors continuously failing on SEe252 when I had that on two separate trips. This is despite those buses being less than a year old, and in the case of SEe331, only being in service a week prior to when I had it. Would be interesting to see how well built the new ADL integral products are, but I do agree with your point about the windows. They look quite silly, very much like an integral BYD design and that’s one thing they shouldn’t have touched when redesigning the product. Quite a few of the MMC's that I've used have been quite rattly, but they tend to be fairly squeaky and the MMC's near me are now 8/9 years old (aside from the fairly nice YX19's at RM) I remember when the SEe's entered service on the 366 and some where in a state from the factory, I recall seeing panels on SEe208 half secured in place and broken destination displays and those buses started rattling fairly fast, but that might be down to the state of some of the roads along the route. The BYD/ADL double decks are far better quality and design wise except the really low headroom at the back of the lower deck (from what I can tell and my limited usage of them). However hearing that ADL have gone for Voith has already lost a bit of my confidence in those buses, as I personally don't like Voiths, but who knows. I'm open to something new and maybe they might be different, in a good way. |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 9, 2024 21:34:11 GMT
TfL-mandated minimum number of openable windows I believe... (and possibly size?) Maybe, I have noticed that Double Deck BYD's and Electroliners have 6 in total upstairs |
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