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Post by busman on Dec 5, 2023 19:29:30 GMT
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Post by lonmark on Dec 5, 2023 21:44:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 21:52:03 GMT
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Post by thekbq14 on Dec 6, 2023 0:15:53 GMT
The SL5 looks like a dogs dinner to me, surely any express route between Croydon and Bromley should go via the old 725/6 route but the SL5 can't because it would take custom from Tramlink. May as well extend the SL3 from Bromley South via Park Langley to Beckenham Junction to connect with Tramlink and drop the SL5 idea. The proposed route, whilst it looks longer distance-wise, might actually be the quickest - buses could lose time in Beckenham and Addiscombe if they follow the old 725/726 route. Beckenham already has good and frequent links to both Bromley and Croydon so I am not convinced the SL5 needs to go that way. I recall seeing a post suggesting the proposed SL5 would have an off-peak end-to-end journey time of just 25 minutes - that will really change perceptions of travel between Croydon and Bromley. Even more so if Go-Ahead wins the contract and operates Irizar ie-trams. I disagree on paper the actual quickest way is through the current routing but diverted at West Wickham through Manor Park Road, Red Lodge Road Banfield Wood Road, Westmoreland Road (this would be subject to low bridge at West Wickham Station so not practical on paper for this route, but it's still being poised to be SD) but if this was to be the route from West Wickham it'll pretty much be an express to Bromley so misses the stops and passengers at Eden Park and Park Langley. Traffic can be bad at Addiscombe and Beckenham, but so can be the case in Shirley along Addiscombe Road and Wickham Road so things even itself out. Yes, Beckenham already has good links to both Bromley and Croydon. Whilst Eden Park's link is substantial it has a frequent and somewhat direct route to Croydon with the 194 and to Bromley with the 358 respectively. With the 194 not being the busiest of routes on this section so not sure if the SL5 will change that maybe only slightly in my opinion. But Addiscombe and Elmers End on that routing, yes both have good links to Croydon with the tram but with poor links to Bromley, Addiscombe has the infrequent 367 going through the houses, whilst Elmers End also has the 367 and 358 which slightly more direct but still goes through all the houses through Eden Park, Park Langley and Shortlands. Again, Shortlands/Park Langley on the same routing, yes both have direct links to Bromley with the 227 and 162/358 respectively, Shortlands has the infrequent 367 going through the houses to Croydon, whilst Park Langley has not routes at all to Croydon Whilst the Shirley, West Wickham corridor already has the frequent and direct 119 serving both Croydon and Bromley, yes it can be busy it seems to does it's job very well especially having 194 and 198 alongside it till Royal Bethlem Hospital, especially as the 119 tends to quiet out somewhat by the time it gets to Hayes when it's by itself. So I've personally never been a fan of the routing I've always thought tfl made it serve Shirley and West Wickham to avoid competition with the Tram which I get from a business point of view even though both are owned by tfl and same fare, there'll be more costs associated to the tram so they'd want people to use that, and for it to serve the Royal Bethlem Hospital as a box ticking exercise. Yes I know it's a mental health hospital so it's usage will be different locally compared to a Mayday or PRU but it's nowhere near one of the most busiest stops on route. I would've gone for the routing of West Croydon -> East Croydon -> Addiscombe Tram Stop -> Elmers End Green (Let the tram serve the Tesco and better interchange for other routes) -> Park Langley Chinese Garage -> Bromley South -> Bromley High Street -> Bromley North. I'm all for a Croydon to Bromley express route as it works well similarly for the SL7/X26 in the past, the demand is there as there's lots of end to end journeys on the 119, it can also take a while on the 119 to complete the journey, no train link unlike Croydon to Sutton despite it being next together, I just think it could've been done better, but saying that I'll probably still be using it lol. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Dec 6, 2023 1:02:50 GMT
The proposed route, whilst it looks longer distance-wise, might actually be the quickest - buses could lose time in Beckenham and Addiscombe if they follow the old 725/726 route. Beckenham already has good and frequent links to both Bromley and Croydon so I am not convinced the SL5 needs to go that way. I recall seeing a post suggesting the proposed SL5 would have an off-peak end-to-end journey time of just 25 minutes - that will really change perceptions of travel between Croydon and Bromley. Even more so if Go-Ahead wins the contract and operates Irizar ie-trams. I disagree on paper the actual quickest way is through the current routing but diverted at West Wickham through Manor Park Road, Red Lodge Road Banfield Wood Road, Westmoreland Road (this would be subject to low bridge at West Wickham Station so not practical on paper for this route, but it's still being poised to be SD) but if this was to be the route from West Wickham it'll pretty much be an express to Bromley so misses the stops and passengers at Eden Park and Park Langley. Traffic can be bad at Addiscombe and Beckenham, but so can be the case in Shirley along Addiscombe Road and Wickham Road so things even itself out. There isn't a low bridge at West Wickham Station, but there is a width restriction (on Red Lodge Road), so no size buses would fit that way unless the restriction were to be removed. My suggestion would be to just make a minor change to the planned SL5 routeing, avoiding the section with the low trees. So going via Manor Park Road and South Eden Park Road (instead of Monks Orchard Road). This would add a few more minutes to journey times, but would allow DDs to be used to increase capacity. |
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Post by greenboy on Dec 6, 2023 8:52:49 GMT
I disagree on paper the actual quickest way is through the current routing but diverted at West Wickham through Manor Park Road, Red Lodge Road Banfield Wood Road, Westmoreland Road (this would be subject to low bridge at West Wickham Station so not practical on paper for this route, but it's still being poised to be SD) but if this was to be the route from West Wickham it'll pretty much be an express to Bromley so misses the stops and passengers at Eden Park and Park Langley. Traffic can be bad at Addiscombe and Beckenham, but so can be the case in Shirley along Addiscombe Road and Wickham Road so things even itself out. There isn't a low bridge at West Wickham Station, but there is a width restriction (on Red Lodge Road), so no size buses would fit that way unless the restriction were to be removed. My suggestion would be to just make a minor change to the planned SL5 routeing, avoiding the section with the low trees. So going via Manor Park Road and South Eden Park Road (instead of Monks Orchard Road). This would add a few more minutes to journey times, but would allow DDs to be used to increase capacity. The tree problem is in South Eden Park Road, the Monks Orchard Road trees are apparently ok. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Dec 6, 2023 10:53:44 GMT
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Post by WH241 on Dec 6, 2023 11:03:38 GMT
What I tend to find is if the A406 is a mess so is the rest of Ilford so I am not convinced either route is going to better but we will see. I wonder how it’s going to be monitored? Will drivers feed back to control? I also wonder will we end up with a situation where drivers have a certain preference and going a certain way even at times when there is no disruption. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Dec 6, 2023 11:19:54 GMT
What I tend to find is if the A406 is a mess so is the rest of Ilford so I am not convinced either route is going to better but we will see. I wonder how it’s going to be monitored? Will drivers feed back to control? I also wonder will we end up with a situation where drivers have a certain preference and going a certain way even at times when there is no disruption. For instance with the SL6 there has been some drivers that opt to go via Camberwell in order to get to Tulse Hill and then you have most of them that go through Brixton in order to get to Tulse Hill so it may depend but the tricky situation could be what if Ilford Lane and the NCR are both screwed. There could be a plan for it to go via the old 366 route when it used to go to Longbridge Road and then via the 145 through to South Park Drive and then into Ilford. I know the EL1 and 169 have done that in the past. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Dec 6, 2023 12:11:48 GMT
What I tend to find is if the A406 is a mess so is the rest of Ilford so I am not convinced either route is going to better but we will see. I wonder how it’s going to be monitored? Will drivers feed back to control? I also wonder will we end up with a situation where drivers have a certain preference and going a certain way even at times when there is no disruption. For instance with the SL6 there has been some drivers that opt to go via Camberwell in order to get to Tulse Hill and then you have most of them that go through Brixton in order to get to Tulse Hill so it may depend but the tricky situation could be what if Ilford Lane and the NCR are both screwed. There could be a plan for it to go via the old 366 route when it used to go to Longbridge Road and then via the 145 through to South Park Drive and then into Ilford. I know the EL1 and 169 have done that in the past. SL7 drivers will sometimes divert via New Malden High Street, Coombe Lane West and Kingston Hospital when traffic is heavy on Kingston Road. Just this morning I have seen 2 towards Kingston and 1 towards Croydon. |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2023 12:47:01 GMT
What I tend to find is if the A406 is a mess so is the rest of Ilford so I am not convinced either route is going to better but we will see. I wonder how it’s going to be monitored? Will drivers feed back to control? I also wonder will we end up with a situation where drivers have a certain preference and going a certain way even at times when there is no disruption. For instance with the SL6 there has been some drivers that opt to go via Camberwell in order to get to Tulse Hill and then you have most of them that go through Brixton in order to get to Tulse Hill so it may depend but the tricky situation could be what if Ilford Lane and the NCR are both screwed. There could be a plan for it to go via the old 366 route when it used to go to Longbridge Road and then via the 145 through to South Park Drive and then into Ilford. I know the EL1 and 169 have done that in the past. I think the routing via Camberwell is really only used in an emergency as the A3 & A23 is all bus lanes between Elephant & Brixton and the A204 is mainly not too busy whereas there are pinch points on the Camberwell routing at Walworth, Denmark Hill & Herne Hill |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Dec 6, 2023 12:52:18 GMT
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Post by MKAY315 on Dec 6, 2023 12:53:35 GMT
For instance with the SL6 there has been some drivers that opt to go via Camberwell in order to get to Tulse Hill and then you have most of them that go through Brixton in order to get to Tulse Hill so it may depend but the tricky situation could be what if Ilford Lane and the NCR are both screwed. There could be a plan for it to go via the old 366 route when it used to go to Longbridge Road and then via the 145 through to South Park Drive and then into Ilford. I know the EL1 and 169 have done that in the past. I think the routing via Camberwell is really only used in an emergency as the A3 & A23 is all bus lanes between Elephant & Brixton and the A204 is mainly not too busy whereas there are pinch points on the Camberwell routing at Walworth, Denmark Hill & Herne Hill Strangely enough the one I was on a while back went the same route as the 59 until Oval and then went down the same route as the 185, 436 and 36 to get to Camberwell. But again that could have been an emergency route on that particular day. |
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Post by TB123 on Dec 6, 2023 12:53:52 GMT
The 62% rise in SL7/X26 usage is all very impressive until you realise the resource was increased by at least 100% and it already had a ropey cost recovery at 2bph before...more to do there to make it financially sustainable. |
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Post by MKAY315 on Dec 6, 2023 12:59:10 GMT
For instance with the SL6 there has been some drivers that opt to go via Camberwell in order to get to Tulse Hill and then you have most of them that go through Brixton in order to get to Tulse Hill so it may depend but the tricky situation could be what if Ilford Lane and the NCR are both screwed. There could be a plan for it to go via the old 366 route when it used to go to Longbridge Road and then via the 145 through to South Park Drive and then into Ilford. I know the EL1 and 169 have done that in the past. SL7 drivers will sometimes divert via New Malden High Street, Coombe Lane West and Kingston Hospital when traffic is heavy on Kingston Road. Just this morning I have seen 2 towards Kingston and 1 towards Croydon. That's an interesting point there. Do you by any chance know what other routes it takes whenever there's disruptions. |
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