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Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2023 16:04:56 GMT
I’d be interested to see how much parallel local routes surrounding the SL7 have decreased in usage. It’s all well and good spitting out a 60%+ rise but are these new passengers or existing ones from other services. Of course TfL will never release these figures. I still think the SL7 will go to every 20 minutes with additional peak shorts at the renewal. I’d be very surprised if it kept a 15 minute frequency. I agree in that they should release such figures but at the very least, they have admitted in the press release that: [...]* The demand data is made up of Oyster and Contactless Payment Card usage on Superloop routes and does not show the net impact on buses as some passengers will have switched from other bus routes to use the Superloop routes nor considers any seasonal effects that impact ridership along the new Superloop routes.So they are at least admitting that some of it has come from existing bus routes which is inevitable when you either introduce an express route or increase the frequency of an existing one even if the actual goal was to remove cars off the road. I don't think it will be dropped in frequency - would be an odd move for an organisation to crow about a 62% change, regardless of where it has come from, and then drop the frequency afterwards which will inevitably lead to criticism of rowing back on promises, something that has been labelled at Khan on more than one occasion and certainly justified at times. I suspect when it's review come up, it will be deemed a success and the current frequency made permanent otherwise why bother crowing about a 62% change then - and to be clear, not saying TfL have got it right or wrong, just what I feel will happen |
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Post by vjaska on Dec 6, 2023 16:06:53 GMT
The 213 was cut to 14 during the pandemic. I’ve said multiple times that having a 15 minute frequency between Croydon and Kingston makes sense but in my experience after Kingston the route is much lighter in usage. This is TfL, I’m sure they and GAL could create a timetable that allows for 30 minutes between Croydon and Heathrow with short slotted in to create a 15 minute frequency from Croydon to Kingston. It would be much better and far more realistic for usage. I would say every 30 minutes is too low for the Kingston to Heathrow section, I wonder if every 10 minutes between Croydon and Kingston and every 20 between Kingston and Heathrow would work. Alternatively just decreasing the SL7 to every 20 minutes would be fine providing the 213 is increased back to every 10 minutes (which is needed regardless of the SL7's frequency anyway). I think every 10 minutes is pushing it - it's only just been increased and so should be allowed to have a considerable period of time to bed in. We will see what TfL review says further down the line but given the 62% change they mention, I only see them keeping it as is and making it permanent. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 6, 2023 16:22:31 GMT
It’s the same with the SL8! Of course there is going to be an increase if the hours of operation increased. They take people for fools. Interestingly there was no TV coverage of the press event yesterday unless I missed it? I don't think a couple of hours extra late at night and a few earlier buses early on Sunday mornings account for all of a 15% increase on the SL8. Also interesting to note that the SL9 even managed a small increase, even though it is essentially an unchanged route - of course, that corridor had its boost when the X140 (the prototype for Superloop if ever there was one) was created. Surely the SL8 took on some extra passengers when the 427 was cutback to Southall. |
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 6, 2023 16:25:25 GMT
I don't think a couple of hours extra late at night and a few earlier buses early on Sunday mornings account for all of a 15% increase on the SL8. Also interesting to note that the SL9 even managed a small increase, even though it is essentially an unchanged route - of course, that corridor had its boost when the X140 (the prototype for Superloop if ever there was one) was created. Surely the SL8 took on some extra passengers when the 427 was cutback to Southall. Fair point - although the 427 was rerouted back in March and the 15% increase over the 607/SL8 was recorded between June and October. |
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Post by joefrombow on Dec 6, 2023 16:39:00 GMT
Just got a email on responses to suggestions for SL2 lots of copy and pasted answers even wrong answers i.e About serving the hospital in regards to a question about Leytonstone ASDA even though I'm sure there isn't a ASDA in Leytonstone and even a question about SL2 serving Stratford via the Hall Farm Curve 😂 whoever answers these really hasn't got a clue about transport which as a enthusiast and someone who has worked in transport (albeit not public) is really frustrating !
Also poxy excuse about not extending to Custom House due to "Traffic concerns" but option of extending elsewhere at walthamstow end I'm assuming to Chingford they don't seem to know the Arrs from the Elbow .
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Post by WH241 on Dec 6, 2023 17:36:49 GMT
It’s the same with the SL8! Of course there is going to be an increase if the hours of operation increased. They take people for fools. Interestingly there was no TV coverage of the press event yesterday unless I missed it? I don't think a couple of hours extra late at night and a few earlier buses early on Sunday mornings account for all of a 15% increase on the SL8. Also interesting to note that the SL9 even managed a small increase, even though it is essentially an unchanged route - of course, that corridor had its boost when the X140 (the prototype for Superloop if ever there was one) was created. Like wise I don't think changing the livery of a bus would increase passenger numbers by 15%. |
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Post by WH241 on Dec 6, 2023 17:43:57 GMT
Surely the SL8 took on some extra passengers when the 427 was cutback to Southall. Fair point - although the 427 was rerouted back in March and the 15% increase over the 607/SL8 was recorded between June and October. But how do we know there hasn't been fluctuation like this previously?
I read the press release as in they compared June to October not the whole period.
The hours of operation on SL8 were increased at launch and the average weekly demand on SL8 in October has seen a 15 per cent change relative to June (before the route was rebranded)
I bet we won't see regular data like this especially after the last few routes are rolled out in the Spring.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 6, 2023 18:48:16 GMT
Fair point - although the 427 was rerouted back in March and the 15% increase over the 607/SL8 was recorded between June and October. But how do we know there hasn't been fluctuation like this previously?
I read the press release as in they compared June to October not the whole period.
The hours of operation on SL8 were increased at launch and the average weekly demand on SL8 in October has seen a 15 per cent change relative to June (before the route was rebranded)
I bet we won't see regular data like this especially after the last few routes are rolled out in the Spring.
Fluctuation like this previously? Highly unlikely. Can't you just accept that Superloop might actually be working? |
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 6, 2023 19:34:29 GMT
I’d be interested to see how much parallel local routes surrounding the SL7 have decreased in usage. It’s all well and good spitting out a 60%+ rise but are these new passengers or existing ones from other services. Of course TfL will never release these figures. I still think the SL7 will go to every 20 minutes with additional peak shorts at the renewal. I’d be very surprised if it kept a 15 minute frequency. My thoughts exactly, TfL are quick to shout about an increase without mentioning any decline in use on other routes. I don't think the current service is sustainable long term and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up with a half hourly service Croydon to Kingston and another half hourly service Sutton to Heathrow. The cost of maintaining a reliable x15min frequency has probably been underestimated too. There are usually some big gaps in service on the SL7 which will not make it attractive in the longer term. The PVR will need to be bumped up just to maintain any hope of the advertised frequency being achieved. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Dec 6, 2023 19:40:54 GMT
Fair point - although the 427 was rerouted back in March and the 15% increase over the 607/SL8 was recorded between June and October. But how do we know there hasn't been fluctuation like this previously?
I read the press release as in they compared June to October not the whole period.
The hours of operation on SL8 were increased at launch and the average weekly demand on SL8 in October has seen a 15 per cent change relative to June (before the route was rebranded)
I bet we won't see regular data like this especially after the last few routes are rolled out in the Spring.
Will be discussed by the Board as part of a first review of the scheme's implementation. Already been earmarked. Data will probably be available publicly. |
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Post by londonbuses on Dec 6, 2023 19:49:55 GMT
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the SL7's frequency was increased to every 12 minutes solely to make it match the frequency of the other Superloop routes.
I certainly can't see there being any chance of its frequency being decreased, it's more likely some of the new Superloop routes will be decreased from every 12 to every 15 minutes if demand is too low.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 7, 2023 7:03:27 GMT
Yes that would be possible, double deckers on the 166 went that way years ago, but I think the priorities are wrong. Any limited stop service should take the most direct route and not be rerouted around the houses to avoid low bridges. I think for a genuinely direct route, they should have investigated if the width restriction could be removed by West Wickham Station. Or, looking on Google Maps, one of the faster routes might actually be going via Addington, avoiding the traffic along Wickham Road, though TFL probably want to minimise duplicating links covered by the Trams. I suppose the SL5 could go via Addington if it was non stop from East Croydon to Coney Hall and so didn't conflict with Tramlink but I really don't think it would carry sufficient numbers to justify itself |
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Post by cardinal on Dec 7, 2023 8:33:41 GMT
My thoughts exactly, TfL are quick to shout about an increase without mentioning any decline in use on other routes. I don't think the current service is sustainable long term and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up with a half hourly service Croydon to Kingston and another half hourly service Sutton to Heathrow. The cost of maintaining a reliable x15min frequency has probably been underestimated too. There are usually some big gaps in service on the SL7 which will not make it attractive in the longer term. The PVR will need to be bumped up just to maintain any hope of the advertised frequency being achieved. [br Purely anecdotal - watching Heathrow bound SL7’s this morning versus 285 loadings - SL7 very busy , 285 light loadings |
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 7, 2023 9:34:26 GMT
The cost of maintaining a reliable x15min frequency has probably been underestimated too. There are usually some big gaps in service on the SL7 which will not make it attractive in the longer term. The PVR will need to be bumped up just to maintain any hope of the advertised frequency being achieved. [br Purely anecdotal - watching Heathrow bound SL7’s this morning versus 285 loadings - SL7 very busy , 285 light loadings At what location was this? |
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Post by cardinal on Dec 7, 2023 9:42:48 GMT
[br Purely anecdotal - watching Heathrow bound SL7’s this morning versus 285 loadings - SL7 very busy , 285 light loadings At what location was this? Observed from an SL7 heading towards Kingston from Heathrow - left Heathrow 0655 |
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