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Post by londonbuses on Dec 7, 2023 17:51:38 GMT
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the SL7's frequency was increased to every 12 minutes solely to make it match the frequency of the other Superloop routes. I certainly can't see there being any chance of its frequency being decreased, it's more likely some of the new Superloop routes will be decreased from every 12 to every 15 minutes if demand is too low. I don't think a universal decrease to 15 mins would happen neither. 12 mins is recognised as the lower end of 'high-frequency' already. Wait up to 15 mins and the time savings of the limited stop route are practically gone already. I didn't mean a universal decrease, I meant specific routes being reduced based on their demand. Anyway, I hope the X26/SL7 is increased to every 12 mins as, on top on the improved frequency, the "high frequency" classification would massively improve reliability as buses wouldn't have to stick to the timetable (which frankly is impossible on the route) and instead there would be more focus on maintaining the headway between buses. |
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Post by COBO on Dec 8, 2023 1:05:31 GMT
You know what they should have done with the Superloop routes and that Is have them with white on blue blinds like the 607 had them.
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 8, 2023 5:47:42 GMT
[br Purely anecdotal - watching Heathrow bound SL7’s this morning versus 285 loadings - SL7 very busy , 285 light loadings If this is typical, perhaps one option might be to increase the SL7 up to every 12 minutes (as seems to be standard for most Superloop routes), add a few extra stops at the western end (at least at Feltham), then reduce the 285 to every 15 minutes? Adding a stop at Feltham on the SL7 is likely to make me think I may as well get a 285. Feltham can also get very choked with traffic. I don’t think that’s a good idea I’m afraid. |
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Post by cardinal on Dec 8, 2023 6:24:17 GMT
If this is typical, perhaps one option might be to increase the SL7 up to every 12 minutes (as seems to be standard for most Superloop routes), add a few extra stops at the western end (at least at Feltham), then reduce the 285 to every 15 minutes? Adding a stop at Feltham on the SL7 is likely to make me think I may as well get a 285. Feltham can also get very choked with traffic. I don’t think that’s a good idea I’m afraid. I was pondering that myself. Trouble is, to connect Feltham station for example you would add 5-10 mins (maybe more in peaks) to the service diverting it via the station. So I don’t think that would work. Part of why it’s so successful is from Kingston you know it should be very much quicker to Teddington and Hatton Cross and these are the only two stops. Between Feltham & Harlington Corner the 90 is the busiest route of the two. There are some interesting passenger flows around Heathrow. Whilst I think the 15m service is great, I don’t think it needs to be every 12 and I also think it doesn’t need to be x15 until close of service. It can easily drop to x30 after 8-9pm. |
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Post by mark on Dec 8, 2023 8:20:52 GMT
You know what they should have done with the Superloop routes and that Is have them with white on blue blinds like the 607 had them. Given the spread of LED displays (including buses on two of the Superloop routes) this would not be practicable. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 8, 2023 8:33:22 GMT
[br Purely anecdotal - watching Heathrow bound SL7’s this morning versus 285 loadings - SL7 very busy , 285 light loadings If this is typical, perhaps one option might be to increase the SL7 up to every 12 minutes (as seems to be standard for most Superloop routes), add a few extra stops at the western end (at least at Feltham), then reduce the 285 to every 15 minutes? Bear in mind that the loadings on the 285 towards Kingston in the morning peak are likely to be higher than towards Heathrow. |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 8, 2023 11:24:46 GMT
You know what they should have done with the Superloop routes and that Is have them with white on blue blinds like the 607 had them. Given the spread of LED displays (including buses on two of the Superloop routes) this would not be practicable. Why would it not? LED can be multicoloured, they manage quite well in TVs. |
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Post by mark on Dec 8, 2023 11:41:51 GMT
Given the spread of LED displays (including buses on two of the Superloop routes) this would not be practicable. Why would it not? LED can be multicoloured, they manage quite well in TVs. The displays currently used on London buses are basically white diodes that are either on (white) or off - the black background (although some non London operators have adopted multi coloured displays these are also usually on a black background to maintain sufficient contrast. It can be done but would require different diodes and therefore be significantly more expensive. |
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Post by SILENCED on Dec 8, 2023 11:54:57 GMT
Why would it not? LED can be multicoloured, they manage quite well in TVs. The displays currently used on London buses are basically white diodes that are either on (white) or off - the black background (although some non London operators have adopted multi coloured displays these are also usually on a black background to maintain sufficient contrast. It can be done but would require different diodes and therefore be significantly more expensive. Personally agree white on black contrast is best for bus blinds ... but multi colour is not an impossible option should someone have a whim. Of course it costs more, but the renumbering of routes and applying vinyls costs money, but where there is a particular want, a way is found. |
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Post by sam97 on Dec 8, 2023 13:15:42 GMT
SL1 tiles are being applied as well as the 34’s new timetable
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 8, 2023 13:28:28 GMT
Seems like TfL can’t win here. After years of carnage and cuts thanks to the initial pain of Boris Johnson’s legacy, TfL are now in a position where once again they can spend money on bus improvements. Yet people here are criticising them for it. Perhaps we have been conditioned to look for ways to make cuts to bus services by what has happened in the last 7 years or so as that was TfLs modus operandi for a period of managed decline. Whilst we continue to imitate that way of thinking, TfL appears to have shifted their thinking in line with their financial position and so should we. Managed decline was never the preferred option and is never going to get more people onto public transport. To attract passengers away from their cars, buses need to be frequent, fast and get to convenient destinations. The SL7 and other Superloop services does exactly that. In an era where people put a destination into their phone map which calculates the best journey times across different modes of transport, the difference between waiting 5 minutes for the next bus vs. 20 minutes is significant. Right now a journey between Bromley and Sutton is roughly 25 minutes faster by car. Once the SL5 starts, bus journey times will become more competitive with car times. But frequencies need to be high enough on both connecting routes to reduce waiting times when interchanging between SuperLoop routes to enable that type of journey. As for the SL7, I’ve seen healthy loadings in and out of Heathrow at various times of the day, but admit I have not observed the route between Kingston and Croydon. TfL have all the data and they are not exactly slow to make frequency reductions if capacity is excessive. They need to allow time to observe how people change their travel habits with the new routes and improved frequency- especially with the ULEZ expansion. I’m sure TfL are looking at loading data and it justifies a frequency reduction they will do it. You put it better than I could. Why do people only look for the negativity? TfL's most recent funding agreement explicitly allowed for increased spending on bus mileage in outer London and a Superloop-style service was on the cards even under the previous Mayor. People's travel habits take time to change, and not all the Superloop increases will come at the expense of conventional routes. Some will be genuinely new journeys that were not made by bus before, and may simply not have been made at all. Maybe because others are doing it as a tit for tat because others on here were being negative when it was a different mayor and anything was being done to promote buses or trains. Soon as the mayor changes then the same people are lapping every bit of milk inside the bowl and onto the ground. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 8, 2023 15:15:45 GMT
I think there is too much bias on here towards certain routes especially with routes going into Zone 1 area seems to get a favourable treatment on here in comparison to the routes in the outskirts that don't get the same treatment as the Central London routes or the busy non Zone 1 routes like the 5 & 86. Even in the pre Superloop days, I always tend to find the 607, X26 & X140 very well used that is proving popular among passengers going over longer distances and I do see the Superloop will eventually be a success . I'm for one always wanted more express routes in London as I know they will prove popular once the demand builds up.
Yes I think it is quite clear that the patterns of demand for bus travel in Greater London are changing. Services into zone 1 have been declining for a number of reasons - mainly slow speeds due to traffic congestion*, combined with improvements to rail services which have taken many years to trickle through after the lack of investment and the maintenance backlogs of the 1970s and 1980s but have borne fruit in recent years. At the same time, travel in the outer suburbs remains buoyant, and can be seen with routes like the 140, 182 and 183 all making the top thirty in terms of journey numbers over a year - indeed the (pre-SL10) 183 in the last financial year accounted for more passenger journeys than the 38. I would not say it is improvements in rail services the reason for decline in the zone 1 area. One of the biggest thing you failed to mention and that TfL seems to have allowed to be bullied by is the infiltration of Uber. This has taken many passengers away from the bus network and have seen many times at bus stops people order them after the bus taking ages to come etc. Then the next major problem is cycle warfare that has eroded bus services, LTN's and never ending roadworks with temporary traffic lights. |
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Post by abellion on Dec 9, 2023 20:37:35 GMT
Are some 34s not stopping in Walthamstow Bus Stn? The Superloop Staff at the stop were telling people to take the SL1 to the Market stop to catch one.
First time riding the SL1, somewhat busy from Walthamstow to Silver St but pretty dead otherwise, at the first two stops a 34 behind us was getting rammed whilst we weren't half full
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Post by kmkcheng on Dec 9, 2023 20:43:00 GMT
Are some 34s not stopping in Walthamstow Bus Stn? The Superloop Staff at the stop were telling people to take the SL1 to the Market stop to catch one. First time riding the SL1, somewhat busy from Walthamstow to Silver St but pretty dead otherwise, at the first two stops a 34 behind us was getting rammed whilst we weren't half full 34 will now set down passengers at bus stop X on Selborne Road instead of inside Walthamstow Central Bus Station. No change to the pick-up stop towards Barnet. |
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Post by sam97 on Dec 9, 2023 22:51:19 GMT
Went on the SL1 from Angel corner to Walthamstow this earlier on. Obviously as it’s a brand new route there was barely any people on the bus. The best thing is that it uses the fly-overs which is a huge benefit as Hall Lane junction and Cork Tree Roundabout gets clogged up with traffic. I’m sure the numbers will pick up soon.
Speaking of which, how is the SL10 doing so far?
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