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Post by WH241 on Apr 2, 2024 19:15:56 GMT
I don't see why the buses need to be fitted out in the Bakerloo Line colours? I could understand perhaps if this was a long term rail replacement service for example. I would much preferer this route along with the SL4, SL6, SL8 were branded as "Express" services instead of Superloop.
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Post by cl54 on Apr 2, 2024 19:38:00 GMT
An express bus on Old Kent Road would be a bit more practical if it wasn’t restricted to 20mph… hopefully this doesn’t impact the 21, 53 or 453’s frequencies because all three of them still provide unique links that this express route won’t. The other problem is the phasing of the traffic lights. In the past if you stayed inside the speed limit you would get through most of them on green. Nowadays it's red every time even at night. |
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 2, 2024 20:17:19 GMT
Right on cue... Ironic coming from someone who lost their Freedom Pass and claimed it was stolen and doesn't even know how much the TfL bus fare is. Confused old dear, she thought London General was a hospital  |
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Post by ronnie on Apr 2, 2024 20:20:50 GMT
An express bus on Old Kent Road would be a bit more practical if it wasn’t restricted to 20mph… hopefully this doesn’t impact the 21, 53 or 453’s frequencies because all three of them still provide unique links that this express route won’t. The other problem is the phasing of the traffic lights. In the past if you stayed inside the speed limit you would get through most of them on green. Nowadays it's red every time even at night. That is a bugbear - I recently took the 53 late in the evening and swear I got stuck at 3/4 of the traffic lights. A car would get through but given a bus does need to stop, it makes for painfully awkward journeys |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 2, 2024 20:32:29 GMT
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 2, 2024 20:43:07 GMT
I think this Bakerloop is also preparation for the incoming Labour government. It makes sense for Khan to remove any targets that he's been using as leverage for getting government funding. With Labour in government he'd look slightly ridiculous if he went and asked for money and they said no. With the Conservative government he could often point at things like the Bakerloo Line extension and blame the lack of progress on them. Now when Labour say no to it people won't really care as there's a 'Bakerloop' bus which makes up for it in. If for whatever reason the General election then goes pear shaped Khan can always just continue campaigning for the extension saying the bus was always meant to be temporary. I also expect to see 2034 adopted as an official target for electrification some point in the near future prior to the election too. If Labour win the election they'll probably grant funding for a 2034 fully electric fleet but the Tories may not and once again he can go back to lobbying them if they somehow win. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 2, 2024 20:47:13 GMT
I think this Bakerloop is also preparation for the incoming Labour government. It makes sense for Khan to remove any targets that he's been using as leverage for getting government funding. With Labour in government he'd look slightly ridiculous if he went and asked for money and they said no. With the Conservative government he could often point at things like the Bakerloo Line extension and blame the lack of progress on them. Now when Labour say no to it people won't really care as there's a 'Bakerloop' bus which makes up for it in. If for whatever reason the General election then goes pear shaped Khan can always just continue campaigning for the extension saying the bus was always meant to be temporary. I also expect to see 2034 adopted as an official target for electrification some point in the near future prior to the election too. If Labour win the election they'll probably grant funding for a 2034 fully electric fleet but the Tories may not and once again he can go back to lobbying them if they somehow win. I’m not convinced Labour will. I think they will have far bigger things to concern themselves with like securing long term support outside of London. There may be a shift in the funding model for London to create a bit more cash but I think any money the government would have will be spent making long term infrastructure investments outside of London. £10 billion can buy a lot of transport network upgrades in the north especially when TfL is fairly self sufficient at this point. |
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 2, 2024 21:10:24 GMT
Right on cue... Ironic coming from someone who lost their Freedom Pass and claimed it was stolen and doesn't even know how much the TfL bus fare is. Confused old dear, she thought London General was a hospital Heard a party political broadcast for her earlier which she didn't even speak or wasn't even featured in just a man's voice saying to vote for her , strangest campaign I've seen for a candidate and still no manifesto 😂 , I'm all for New bus routes , short and sweet could maybe go up to Blackfriars or even Lambeth Bridge south side to turn around and maybe extend to Catford from Lewisham but can see it just being short sweet and cheap , like a pre rail replacement service . |
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Post by ronnie on Apr 2, 2024 21:10:45 GMT
But what new link is it introducing? There's nothing here that can't be done directly by other means. If you're continuing beyond Elephant or Lewisham, will the time saving be worth the additional change? Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of more of these routes, but I think it needs to do more than just pretending to be the Bakerloo line. I think it would be better for TfL to invest the money they would use on this contract and work with the council on street improvement projects on OKR with enforced 24 hour bus lanes, traffic calming measures etc to speed up buses. I don’t doubt there is an appetite for faster journeys but that could be done in a way that benefits all passengers and not just a select few. OKR already has 24 hour bus lanes. It’s a wonderful road where both cars and buses are usually very quick - I have done Blackheath royal standard to OKR Tesco in under 40 min on a 53 just after 9am on a Wednesday during term time Not sure how traffic calming measures will help buses - more likely to be detrimental What OKR needs is removal of those accursed 20mph speed limits, brought on at the behest of the Lycra louts! |
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Post by rif153 on Apr 2, 2024 21:44:53 GMT
Khan's PR is getting increasingly ridiculous. He really is desparate to shoehorne just about anything he can into this loop nonesense. Can't wait until the small print says there'll be PVR cuts to the 21 and 453 to provide the additional buses to run this express route. Also I'm not convinced this will actually advance the case for a Bakerloo line extension at all, it seems to be an admission the extension is a pipedream more than anything else. I will admit it is providing a long overdue direct Elephant-Lewisham link straight down the OKR though.
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 2, 2024 22:35:05 GMT
Khan's PR is getting increasingly ridiculous. He really is desparate to shoehorne just about anything he can into this loop nonesense. Can't wait until the small print says there'll be PVR cuts to the 21 and 453 to provide the additional buses to run this express route. Also I'm not convinced this will actually advance the case for a Bakerloo line extension at all, it seems to be an admission the extension is a pipedream more than anything else. I will admit it is providing a long overdue direct Elephant-Lewisham link straight down the OKR though. Also ironic that an express bus is considered to be required now, after they have cut frequencies and scrapped the 168 along the Old Kent Road on the basis that there was excess capacity being provided. |
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Post by greenboy on Apr 3, 2024 7:06:42 GMT
Cheap and easy to implement therefore the government whoever that might be could argue is the line needed if the bus does the job. If the bus is crushloaded and the roads and gridlock then it's easy to argue against that Crushloaded is a slight exaggeration, buses can be busy along Old Kent Road but equally there can often be excess capacity and it wasn't long ago that the 168 was withdrawn. This is clearly just a desperate attempt by the mayor to keep himself in office. |
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Post by mark on Apr 3, 2024 7:23:09 GMT
An express bus on Old Kent Road would be a bit more practical if it wasn’t restricted to 20mph… hopefully this doesn’t impact the 21, 53 or 453’s frequencies because all three of them still provide unique links that this express route won’t. A limited stop service along the Old Kent Road was mentioned in the Bus Action Pkan - content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-action-plan.pdfOf course, it’s nothing new - the 53x used to run along this route. Using express buses in advance of building a rail link is also tried and tested - the A1 from Hounslow to Heathrow, various Docklands Express routes etc. |
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Post by ronnie on Apr 3, 2024 7:47:02 GMT
Given how many long distance passengers are there on some of the routes (eg 53, which has good loads even at midnight), there is scope for a full blown (or multiple!) express routes
I would have had some of the following (money not an objection!)
X53: plumstead - woolwich (along the 122 corridor) - Charlton village - Blackheath royal standard - Deptford bridge - New Cross - OKR Tesco - Elephant and castle - Lambeth North - st Thomas - Trafalgar Square - Russell Square
X21: lewisham - New Cross - OKR Tesco - elephant and castle - Waterloo - aldwych - Russell Square? Trafalgar Square?
X36: Lewisham - New Cross - Peckham - Camberwell green - oval - Vauxhall - Victoria
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Post by TB123 on Apr 3, 2024 7:58:07 GMT
An express bus on Old Kent Road would be a bit more practical if it wasn’t restricted to 20mph… hopefully this doesn’t impact the 21, 53 or 453’s frequencies because all three of them still provide unique links that this express route won’t. A limited stop service along the Old Kent Road was mentioned in the Bus Action Pkan - content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-action-plan.pdfOf course, it’s nothing new - the 53x used to run along this route. Using express buses in advance of building a rail link is also tried and tested - the A1 from Hounslow to Heathrow, various Docklands Express routes etc. Far too sensible a post! |
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