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Post by greg on Apr 19, 2024 16:45:01 GMT
My local, 24. Don’t really think this route has the demand it had previously and it is heavily duplicated by the 29. Most passengers would just use the 29 instead as its high frequency just means its the first bus coming that they wait for, while the 24 can sometimes be 7-25 minutes, depending on delays/traffic or events that kill off the route as it spends 9/10 of its route in Central London Extension of the 27 to Hampstead Heath and 29 to Victoria would be enough and maybe a reroute of one of the Victoria-Vauxhall routes via Pimlico and Lupus Street to Millbank instead (185?). You won't be able to re-route buses away from Vauxhall Bridge Road IMO - whilst the 36 & 185 have a larger duplication than the 2, all three are necessary along there especially now the 436 doesn't run there. I'm also not convinced by the extension of the 29 either - it's max running time is already not far off 90 minutes. Maybe the only way is to find an alternative routing through Central London for the 24 - maybe put the 22 back to Piccadilly Circus via it's old routing and let the 24 run via the old C2 routing from Victoria to Great Portland Street? I had always thought maybe swapping the 24/38 routings between Cambridge Circus and Victoria might bring back some life. However, I’m not sure how much this would affect the 38, as most people do say the 19/38 are needed, IMO most 38s run empty along this section and the big playoff is Victoria to Piccadilly, and then empty up until Angel. The 24 reroute I plan would continue the Victoria to Piccadilly as well as to TCR, and then from TCR people can still use the 38. The 19 is also available as far as Islington Green for people to get to HPC. As for the 24, it can bring a whole new crowd of commuters to Chinatown, Piccadilly, HPC and Green Park from North West London. Might revitalise some commutes that were previously broken such as the 10 withdrawal, 14 reroute as well as bring some new ones. The NW London to Westminster link would be broken via TCR but the 88 is still available and is only a short walk away from the current 24 routing regardless. Then also, theres the 29/91 short walk away from TSQ to Parliament Square. As for the 38, Islington/Clerkenwell and further East can get links to Whitehall and nearby Waterloo/Vauxhall. |
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Post by Busboy105 on Apr 19, 2024 19:08:18 GMT
My local, 24. Don’t really think this route has the demand it had previously and it is heavily duplicated by the 29. Most passengers would just use the 29 instead as its high frequency just means its the first bus coming that they wait for, while the 24 can sometimes be 7-25 minutes, depending on delays/traffic or events that kill off the route as it spends 9/10 of its route in Central London Extension of the 27 to Hampstead Heath and 29 to Victoria would be enough and maybe a reroute of one of the Victoria-Vauxhall routes via Pimlico and Lupus Street to Millbank instead (185?). You could extend the 134 to Victoria maybe and maybe amend a route somewhere to replace the Victoria- Pimlico section |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 20, 2024 3:32:54 GMT
TBH I can't be bothered to read this whole thread. Most routes provide unique direct connections, or are somewhere the only route along a section of road.
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 20, 2024 8:38:59 GMT
The 29 would become too unreliable if it was extended to Victoria & the 27 going to Hampstead Heath to replace the 24 does break links from there to the West End. The 24 could potentially receive a small frequency increase but otherwise it is fine as it is. If Anything there would probably just be a rehash of the previous proposals but with the lower numbers kept and the 205 or 214 'withdrawn'. If the 24 had to be withdrawn, perhaps something like this could be done: 26: Extended to Pimlico via the 24. 27: Extended to Parliament Hill fields via the 88. Revised in Hammersmith to terminate at the bus station. 88: Revised to operate between Clapham Common & Hampstead Heath as initially proposed. 12 or 159: Extended to Camden Town via the 88’s current LOR after Oxford Circus. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 20, 2024 12:13:21 GMT
Read the topic of the thread. If the subjective responses annoy you so much, stay off it. Also thank you for repeating the point I acknowledged in my post about the use case for the route 👍 Yes, a horrible convoluted route on the map, and must be awful to drive and one e2e that I couldn't face when I wanted to travel from Woolwich to Blackheath. However, and as you acknowledge useful, may be even a life-line for local people living on roads solely by the route. As someone whose local bus stop is served by just one route, but that's blessed with 5bph I'm always happy to 'bang a drum' for routes on roads solely served by one route. Some 2023 pax numbers for the 'unique' sections served by the 386: 1) Vanbrugh Hill / Westcombe Park Road 114k 2) The loop in Kidbrooke off / returning to Shooter's Hill Road 126k 3) Woolwich Common / Herbert Road 131k Total PAX on 386 1.54m so the numbers serving 'unique' roads represent around 25%, and assuming most if not all return home on a 386 from Greenwich, Woolwich, Blackheath, QEH than you can pretty much double this number The route also has some lovely bus stop names, including: Ha Ha Road Greenwich Heights Begbie Road Ulundi Road Zangwill Road Corelli College Old Royal Military Academy Wat Tyler Road Does the usage data come from boarders at individual bus stops on the unique sections? Just out of interest how did you get those figures, are they publicly available? |
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Post by rif153 on Apr 20, 2024 12:21:54 GMT
I think something clearly isn't working with the 24, it has to battle horrific congestion throughout its routing especially on Charing Cross Road. Hardly anyone uses it to cross Central London either so there's not much point in it running from Pimlico to Hampstead Heath. Having said that I don't think you'd be able to get away with changing it that significantly given its long history in its current form and withdrawing it to cobble the links together with various route extensions/re-routings won't go down well. Splitting it in two might be a good first step.
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Post by greg on Apr 20, 2024 16:37:45 GMT
I think something clearly isn't working with the 24, it has to battle horrific congestion throughout its routing especially on Charing Cross Road. Hardly anyone uses it to cross Central London either so there's not much point in it running from Pimlico to Hampstead Heath. Having said that I don't think you'd be able to get away with changing it that significantly given its long history in its current form and withdrawing it to cobble the links together with various route extensions/re-routings won't go down well. Splitting it in two might be a good first step. Exactly so, one route from the south and one from the North. There aren’t many options north as Hampstead Heath seems to have no routes, other than some turning south, so possibly the 14 rerouted to Warren Street again, (bringing this Piccadilly link back) and the 27 to Hampstead Heath. Don’t think Bedford Place and British Museum needs a bus service, but extending the 176 seems the best choice here or rerouting the 98 instead of New Oxford Street. Even today, there are roadworks at Mornington Crescent which means the 24 is on diversion but is then suspended to Warren Street or diverted via OXO as there are demonstrations related to the Palestine/Israel conflict today all over Central London. It essentially means the 24 is missing its current route between Camden High Street and Victoria, which is 3/4 of its current route. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 20, 2024 16:50:33 GMT
I think something clearly isn't working with the 24, it has to battle horrific congestion throughout its routing especially on Charing Cross Road. Hardly anyone uses it to cross Central London either so there's not much point in it running from Pimlico to Hampstead Heath. Having said that I don't think you'd be able to get away with changing it that significantly given its long history in its current form and withdrawing it to cobble the links together with various route extensions/re-routings won't go down well. Splitting it in two might be a good first step. Exactly so, one route from the south and one from the North. There aren’t many options north as Hampstead Heath seems to have no routes, other than some turning south, so possibly the 14 rerouted to Warren Street again, (bringing this Piccadilly link back) and the 27 to Hampstead Heath. Don’t think Bedford Place and British Museum needs a bus service, but extending the 176 seems the best choice here or rerouting the 98 instead of New Oxford Street. Even today, there are roadworks at Mornington Crescent which means the 24 is on diversion but is then suspended to Warren Street or diverted via OXO as there are demonstrations related to the Palestine/Israel conflict today all over Central London. It essentially means the 24 is missing its current route between Camden High Street and Victoria, which is 3/4 of its current route. I think anything that doest link Hampstead Heath with atleast Trafalgar Square wouldn't go down well (same for Pimlico wanting a route as far as TSQ) with the Hampstead population. |
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Post by someone on Apr 20, 2024 17:18:18 GMT
124 is a route that annoys me. Im really not a fan of the 12-plates, they seem quite plain and boring and have that annoying shrilling sound. The metrocities look okay-ish but i've personally had negative experiences on this route. I agree with you on the LX12 single-deckers as they are really prone to an engine malfunction that changes the engine sound to a shrill whistle (as per 36532/LX12 DHM on the 124 and 36551/LX12 DKE (I think) on the 314). The later ones are better, it seems, and I've never been on a MetroCity in London but it looks like it will provide a much-needed upgrade to this route. In short, take the 126 or 160 if you can (especially 126 - it has excellent buses minus a few relatively boring YX65s) |
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Post by someone on Apr 20, 2024 17:21:14 GMT
The 386 is really annoying with the dizzy routing, small roads and speed humps. Woolwich to Blackheath via 90% of the borough of Greenwich. I guess it provides useful links to people living on roads solely served by the 386, but other than that….it’s actually quicker to walk from Hare Street or the Royal Standard to Blackheath Royal Parade than to take the 386! On a bad day I think I could outwalk it between QE Hospital and Royal Parade too. That’s how crazy the routing is. To me that's what made the route fun, especially the weirdness of the 51-esque Woolwich section and the Blackheath-Greenwich portion is quite nice too. I also really like the 380 and B16 for similar reasons. |
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Post by greg on Apr 20, 2024 18:02:06 GMT
Exactly so, one route from the south and one from the North. There aren’t many options north as Hampstead Heath seems to have no routes, other than some turning south, so possibly the 14 rerouted to Warren Street again, (bringing this Piccadilly link back) and the 27 to Hampstead Heath. Don’t think Bedford Place and British Museum needs a bus service, but extending the 176 seems the best choice here or rerouting the 98 instead of New Oxford Street. Even today, there are roadworks at Mornington Crescent which means the 24 is on diversion but is then suspended to Warren Street or diverted via OXO as there are demonstrations related to the Palestine/Israel conflict today all over Central London. It essentially means the 24 is missing its current route between Camden High Street and Victoria, which is 3/4 of its current route. I think anything that doest link Hampstead Heath with atleast Trafalgar Square wouldn't go down well (same for Pimlico wanting a route as far as TSQ) with the Hampstead population. Arguably, I think the 1 would be adequate and getting off at Aldwych and walking along Strand & Covent Garden. Quite a common and link. Also attracts more as the 1 serves closer to Hampstead Station and Belsize Park whereas the 24 is going down rundown residental estates. From Camden, you also have the 29. I do agree however about Pimlico to TSQ, while this could just be done via the 26, it might become a hefty long route from Hackney Wick to Pimlico |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 20, 2024 18:12:57 GMT
I think anything that doest link Hampstead Heath with atleast Trafalgar Square wouldn't go down well (same for Pimlico wanting a route as far as TSQ) with the Hampstead population. Arguably, I think the 1 would be adequate and getting off at Aldwych and walking along Strand & Covent Garden. Quite a common and link. Also attracts more as the 1 serves closer to Hampstead Station and Belsize Park whereas the 24 is going down rundown residental estates. From Camden, you also have the 29. I do agree however about Pimlico to TSQ, while this could just be done via the 26, it might become a hefty long route from Hackney Wick to Pimlico Had the 11 been split in 2019 then that would have been perfect really for Pimlico ie Pimlico to Liverpool Street. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 20, 2024 23:33:05 GMT
My local, 24. Don’t really think this route has the demand it had previously and it is heavily duplicated by the 29. Most passengers would just use the 29 instead as its high frequency just means its the first bus coming that they wait for, while the 24 can sometimes be 7-25 minutes, depending on delays/traffic or events that kill off the route as it spends 9/10 of its route in Central London Extension of the 27 to Hampstead Heath and 29 to Victoria would be enough and maybe a reroute of one of the Victoria-Vauxhall routes via Pimlico and Lupus Street to Millbank instead (185?). My local route too! 24 is very 'seasonal' and dependent on the tourist crowd. It can either be packed, or empty, there's hardly an in between. And this varies greatly even during the general 'off-peak' hours time slot, let alone between weekdays and weekends.
I'd keep the route as it's not as terrible as it is perceived to be. It manages Warren Street to Pimlico Station in 40 mins tops during daytime hours, 30 mins approx in the late evenings. Minus 5-10 ish minutes or so for the journey time to Victoria. Or approx that amount for Camden Market to Parliament Square/Westminster. It's not bad at all.
But if some rearranging had to be done... The 88 is quiet for what is a speedy cut-through through Millbank, shaves off 10+ minutes off vs the 24 to get the Parliament Square.
24 swaps Hampstead Heath for the 27's Chalk Farm. 24 diverted via 88 and terminates at Victoria (Parliament Square > Marsham Street > Pimlico Station > Belgrave Road > Wilton Road > Victoria) 88 via Mayfair (22's routing), Piccadilly, HPC, Victoria, Vauxhall Bridge Road LOR 22 rerouted Piccadilly Circus 1/2 38 curtailed Piccadilly Circus Roadworks to enable C10 to have 12m long buses
Pros: 24 faster to Pimlico, maintains links to Victoria (26 available from TSQ for passengers wanting faster journeys to Victoria) More reliable service and empty bus for Camden Market visitors Retains all tourist links
88 offers north-south links through Mayfair rather than terminating just a bit like currently on the 22 which really doesn't encourage much pax to board as it doesn't really go very much further. Also a decently fast routing with approx the same journey time as current from say Vauxhall to Oxford Circus.
38 capacity adjusted to demand
Cons: Millbank <> Oxford Circus link lost Slower 24 journeys to Victoria Grovesnor Road at Pimlico + Claverton Street loses its buses
Readily awaiting your feedback  |
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Post by sdaniel on Apr 20, 2024 23:42:15 GMT
I’d say the 242 in a way ever since it got curtailed to Aldgate from Tottenham Court Road and is no longer a 24 hour route. Don’t see why and N242 had to exist
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 21, 2024 7:30:36 GMT
I’d say the 242 in a way ever since it got curtailed to Aldgate from Tottenham Court Road and is no longer a 24 hour route. Don’t see why and N242 had to exist I doubt anyone living in Clapton Park Estate would class the 242 as 'useless'. The 242 provides links to local shopping and nightlife in Hackney, London Overground connections at Hackney Central and Dalston Junction, and a link to The City. It also provides round-the-corner links across Dalston, and is the only bus route along Commercial Street between Shoreditch and Aldgate. It also supports the 38, 149, 243 and 277. Not to mention the links to Homerton Hospital. N242 was retained to Tottenham Court Road to provide a direct link to and from West End nightlife. |
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