|
|
Post by thekbq14 on Apr 20, 2024 22:34:14 GMT
I'll speak on the SL7 split for now as this is a route that's local to me and I use the most out of the one's listed. The others I might touch on later.
At the end of they day, I'm not surprised that TfL are considering cutting the route even if this is just a draft. It is a long route and one that struggles with reliability because of this. It was a neglected route and on the chopping board now it's currently a thriving route on the Superloop network.
Looking at the history of the route it has bit by bit got shorter at it's eastern end. First Dartford (couple of days before Bluewater opens down the road), then Bromley, now Croydon and possibly Sutton. In all honesty if the route was created from scratch nowadays it wouldn't be this long anyways. As most other Superloop routes clock around the 1 hour mark with the SL7 more on 1.5/2 hour mark. Also with the way the SL5 was introduced as a short route from Bromley to Croydon this probably done with the scope of potentially expanding it westwards one day taking over the eastern section of the SL7.
However, if I was to cut the SL7 it would be at Kingston and not Sutton. As there is a clear split in the route with demand between Croydon and Kingston more for shoppers and workers being very popular, and then Kingston to Heathrow being less busier and more specific for airport staff and travellers (With the latter tending to cross both sides and doing the longer journeys who will be most effected by these cuts). Cutting at Sutton will get rid of the unique direct link between Croydon to Kingston. Yes it is quicker to go through Clapham Junction or Wimbledon but these are not direct like the SL7 hence it's popularity in that section.
Saying all this an SL5 between Sutton to Bromley will be popular in my opinion, giving that South West to South East London link which is lacking. Croydon itself doesn't really have a proper cross borough East to West route apart from the tram and at a push 157 & 410. It will be interesting to see end to end usage though of it. There wouldn't be much traffic for the SL5 to face on the extended bit only really at West Croydon (if it goes down this route) so reliability won't be an issue as it's already a short route, however as stated the capacity on this section must increase one way or another be that Double Deckers or if not at least longer vehicles.
|
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Apr 21, 2024 8:38:52 GMT
I'll speak on the SL7 split for now as this is a route that's local to me and I use the most out of the one's listed. The others I might touch on later. At the end of they day, I'm not surprised that TfL are considering cutting the route even if this is just a draft. It is a long route and one that struggles with reliability because of this. It was a neglected route and on the chopping board now it's currently a thriving route on the Superloop network. Looking at the history of the route it has bit by bit got shorter at it's eastern end. First Dartford (couple of days before Bluewater opens down the road), then Bromley, now Croydon and possibly Sutton. In all honesty if the route was created from scratch nowadays it wouldn't be this long anyways. As most other Superloop routes clock around the 1 hour mark with the SL7 more on 1.5/2 hour mark. Also with the way the SL5 was introduced as a short route from Bromley to Croydon this probably done with the scope of potentially expanding it westwards one day taking over the eastern section of the SL7. However, if I was to cut the SL7 it would be at Kingston and not Sutton. As there is a clear split in the route with demand between Croydon and Kingston more for shoppers and workers being very popular, and then Kingston to Heathrow being less busier and more specif ic for airport staff and travellers (With the latter tending to cross both sides and doing the longer journeys who will be most effected by these cuts). Cutting at Sutton will get rid of the unique direct link between Croydon to Kingston. Yes it is quicker to go through Clapham Junction or Wimbledon but these are not direct like the SL7 hence it's popularity in that section. Saying all this an SL5 between Sutton to Bromley will be popular in my opinion, giving that South West to South East London link which is lacking. Croydon itself doesn't really have a proper cross borough East to West route apart from the tram and at a push 157 & 410. It will be interesting to see end to end usage though of it. There wouldn't be much traffic for the SL5 to face on the extended bit only really at West Croydon (if it goes down this route) so reliability won't be an issue as it's already a short route, however as stated the capacity on this section must increase one way or another be that Double Deckers or if not at least longer vehicles. Be interesting to know how many current journeys there are on the SL7 from Heathrow to Sutton and Croydon and how many are from Croydon to Kingston. Personally I would say Kingston to Croydon has more demand ( let's not forget the local link the SL7 currently provides from Carshalton to Cheam which would be broken aswell). |
|
|
|
Post by rift on Apr 21, 2024 10:50:08 GMT
I don’t understand the point of the route from Thamesmead to North Greenwich at all, especially considering the 180 and 472 don’t take that long from Woolwich to North Greenwich with the bus priority having been improved over almost the entirety of that section.
|
|
|
|
Post by MKAY315 on Apr 21, 2024 11:51:26 GMT
In regards to the North Greenwich to Thamesmead route I think they might extend it somewhere into East London, especially with the Silvertown tunnel opening up soon. Question is where would you put it?
Would you put it in Stratford to connect it with the Chingford/Enfield express bus there or North Woolwich (if there is even any space. I know there used to be a stand at Factory Road years ago but I'm not sure if it's still there now).
Then you have Gallions Reach shopping park as a potential or where the 129 will stand around that area too.
|
|
|
|
Post by britishguy54 on Apr 21, 2024 12:33:42 GMT
In regards to the North Greenwich to Thamesmead route I think they might extend it somewhere into East London, especially with the Silvertown tunnel opening up soon. Question is where would you put it? Would you put it in Stratford to connect it with the Chingford/Enfield express bus there or North Woolwich (if there is even any space. I know there used to be a stand at Factory Road years ago but I'm not sure if it's still there now). Then you have Gallions Reach shopping park as a potential or where the 129 will stand around that area too. Stratford seems like the sensible option via the Silvertown Tunnel, with possibly paralleling the Jubilee Line to serve Canning Town and West Ham, and an interchange with the SL route to Chingford. Barking and Romford could possibly be an alternate option, with the X472 becoming more of an X5 on the north side of the river, but I feel like that would benefit more from its own SL route to another location such as Canary Wharf or Aldgate. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Apr 21, 2024 12:36:48 GMT
In regards to the North Greenwich to Thamesmead route I think they might extend it somewhere into East London, especially with the Silvertown tunnel opening up soon. Question is where would you put it? Would you put it in Stratford to connect it with the Chingford/Enfield express bus there or North Woolwich (if there is even any space. I know there used to be a stand at Factory Road years ago but I'm not sure if it's still there now). Then you have Gallions Reach shopping park as a potential or where the 129 will stand around that area too. Stratford seems like the sensible option via the Silvertown Tunnel, with possibly paralleling the Jubilee Line to serve Canning Town and West Ham, and an interchange with the SL route to Chingford. Barking and Romford could possibly be an alternate option, with the X472 becoming more of an X5 on the north side of the river, but I feel like that would benefit more from its own SL route to another location such as Canary Wharf or Aldgate. Can’t run along the Jubilee Line as there is a low bridge at West Ham. |
|
|
|
Post by MKAY315 on Apr 21, 2024 12:46:40 GMT
In regards to the North Greenwich to Thamesmead route I think they might extend it somewhere into East London, especially with the Silvertown tunnel opening up soon. Question is where would you put it? Would you put it in Stratford to connect it with the Chingford/Enfield express bus there or North Woolwich (if there is even any space. I know there used to be a stand at Factory Road years ago but I'm not sure if it's still there now). Then you have Gallions Reach shopping park as a potential or where the 129 will stand around that area too. Stratford seems like the sensible option via the Silvertown Tunnel, with possibly paralleling the Jubilee Line to serve Canning Town and West Ham, and an interchange with the SL route to Chingford. Barking and Romford could possibly be an alternate option, with the X472 becoming more of an X5 on the north side of the river, but I feel like that would benefit more from its own SL route to another location such as Canary Wharf or Aldgate. Barking might be a bit tricky depending on which direction you come from. If it's coming directly from the East Ham/Beckton direction then it will be hard to terminate that bus by the station as the 238 and 287 just about are able to fit in the stands and even then some buses have struggled to get past the buses when they're on the stand |
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Apr 21, 2024 13:31:13 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected,
|
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Apr 21, 2024 13:32:35 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected, Probably get quietly dropped if Sadiq is elected as well. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Apr 21, 2024 13:33:26 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected, No really? |
|
|
|
Post by PGAT on Apr 21, 2024 13:36:53 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected, That doesn't make them any less legitimate |
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Apr 21, 2024 13:40:26 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected, That doesn't make them any less legitimate They might not be legitimate they might not happen they shouldn’t be legitimate until actual consultations regarding them have been released. Right now they are Khan election proposals they might not happen even if he’s elected again so right now they should taken as a pinch of salt. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Apr 21, 2024 13:41:22 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected, Probably get quietly dropped if Sadiq is elected as well. Will be interesting to see what spin those very pro Sadiq put on it if this happens. |
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Apr 21, 2024 13:43:01 GMT
My god it’s like some people don’t understand that these proposals aren’t legit and will only go ahead if Sadiq Khan gets re elected. They probably won’t go ahead if someone else gets elected, That doesn't make them any less legitimate They are nothing but spin at the moment. Not legitimate until the formal consultations are published. |
|
|
|
Post by PGAT on Apr 21, 2024 13:47:32 GMT
That doesn't make them any less legitimate They might not be legitimate they might not happen they shouldn’t be legitimate until actual consultations regarding them have been released. Right now they are Khan election proposals they might not happen even if he’s elected again so right now they should taken as a pinch of salt. Yes they are proposals but so was Superloop and if anything were to be taken with a pinch of salt that would've been it, but they have been consulted on and enacted in good time just like promised. There's no reason to think that he wouldn't. Obviously this is dependent on him winning the election but you'd be daft if you thought Susan Hall had a good shot at winning. |
|
